Circadian Rhythms, Adjusting the Sleep Wake Cycle

Please share your experiences, successes, and failures in using non-drug therapies for RLS/WED (methods of relief that don't involve swallowing or injecting anything), including compression, heat, light, stretches, acupuncture, etc. Also under this heading, medical interventions that don't involve the administration of a medicine to the body (eg. varicose-vein operations, deep-brain stimulation). [This forum contains Topics started prior to 2009 that deal with Non-prescription Medicines, Supplements, & Diet.]
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KBear
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Location: Wisconsin USA

Circadian Rhythms, Adjusting the Sleep Wake Cycle

Post by KBear »

Many of us have found that because our RLS keeps us up most of the night we end up on a different sleep/wake cycle than the rest of the world. While there is certainly nothing wrong with having a different sleep schedule than everyone else it can be frustrating to be competely off schedule from those closest to you.

I am fortunate that I have never gotten as far off schedule as some people, Until recently, my circadian sleep cycle was running from about 2 AM to 8 AM (or later if I could get away with it). This doesn't mean that I actually slept that long. I wanted to get more sleep and be on a schedule closer to the rest of family. I was able to move it back to about 10 PM to 7 AM over a period of several months. (and I am currently getting about 8 hours of sleep a night!). Here's how I did it.

I started by making myself get up everyday between 7 AM and 8 AM (had to for work anyway) then making sure that I was exposed to as much sunlight as possible during my waking hours. I don't have blinds in my bedroom window so when the sun comes up it shines in my face. My work desk is at a window that faces south and on sunny days I will just bask in it like a cat. I try to avoid being exposed to excessive amounts of light in the evening. After 5 PM I am off the computer for the night, although I do watch some TV, there is a theory that the light/visual stimulation acts like sunlight keeping a person in a state of wakefullness.

I slowy begin inching back the start of my bedtime routine in half hour increments. My routine might include a warm bath, reading a book, Sudoku puzzles, etc. each of us will be a little different.

I have also been fortunate that my RLS has gone into semi remission. I think this is key. It would very hard to adjust your sleep schedule if your RLS isn't under control with medication or otherwise. For me it's a combination of the right diet, exercise, supplements (multi plus iron, calcium, B-complex, E, C, fish oil, and Magnesium as needed) and the right meds to control my symptoms. This will be different for everyone and it can be a little tricky to find the right combo for you. I am now asleep by 10 PM on most nights.

I would really like to be a morning person like my husband (up at 6AM to greet the sun) and I think I might eventually get there. I remember delivering newspapers in the early morning hours when I was a teenager and I really enjoyed the peacefulness of that time of day. It was like having the whole world to myself, sort of like being up all night but in a good way. :wink:

I guess you have to really want and prefer a daytime schedule. I think many people enjoy being up at night and sleeping during the day and that's OK, but if you hate being on a different schedule you might be able to fix it in small increments until you reach a schedule that works for you.

Hope this helps someone.
Kathy

Link to the Mayo Clinic Algorithm:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/pd ... 907Crc.pdf

Sojourner
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Post by Sojourner »

Found this one of many articles on chronotherapy. As you mentioned, probably difficult to do this with the added burden of rls. Anyway, glad that things are working out better for you.

http://www.geocities.com/delayed_sleep/ ... erapy.html


M.
Last edited by Sojourner on Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SquirmingSusan
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Post by SquirmingSusan »

I'm glad it worked for you Kathy. My sleep doctor told me it's next to impossible to advance the sleep cycle, and most people give up and get night jobs. I'm not quite at that point yet.

I've been working at it and have found that IF my RLS is under control, I can force my sleep into a rhythm that matches "normal" people's circadian rhythm. For example, at workshops where I stay onsite, I can get to sleep when everyone else does, with enough drugs. The problem is staying awake during the morning. It just doesn't seem to matter when I get to sleep, or how long I sleep - I just can't stay awake in the morning. I have all the symptoms of narcolepsy in the morning. I'll be falling of my chair in the workshops.

So if I get to sleep at 10pm and sleep until 8am- even though I get 8 hours of sleep, I CAN'T stay awake in the morning. And none of my doctors will let me try Provigil.

My body is just stupid that way.
Susan

SquirmingSusan
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Post by SquirmingSusan »

Excellent article, Mark. Thanks.
Susan

KBear
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Location: Wisconsin USA

Post by KBear »

Love the new squirmy monster :D

The method described in that article might actually work better for people who are more out of sync, than I was. I would be interested to hear details if anyone tries it.

I also have ongoing daytime sleepliness even after a good nights sleep. It seems like I don't really hit my stride until mid afternoon. I'm thinking I might try exercising in the morning but I'm not sure I can get myself moving to do.

Had a bad RLS night last :cry: it was probably the glass of red wine I had. I hate it that I have to give up all of lifes little pleasures just to get a decent nights sleep.
Kathy

Link to the Mayo Clinic Algorithm:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/pd ... 907Crc.pdf

SquirmingSusan
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Post by SquirmingSusan »

KBear wrote:
Had a bad RLS night last :cry: it was probably the glass of red wine I had. I hate it that I have to give up all of lifes little pleasures just to get a decent nights sleep.


It's a bummer. :(

And yeah, the code for my "whirlyhead" was too long to fit with the moderator disclaimer, and I needed something down there. :wink:
Susan

DrWass2
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:44 am
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circadian rhythm??

Post by DrWass2 »

I too seem to have a shifted rhythm... I stay up late to 2 or 4 am and sleep like a log in the morning. In fact since I have my own business, i start most days at 10am. its good to be the boss! I've have read that it is almost impossible to move your time back to normal but that it is possible to move it forward. So one would have to take about a weeks to gradually move your time forward, maybe by 2 hours each day, until you cycled all the around to a normal sleep time. My wife gets up a 5 am so she goes to sleep at 9 to 10pm but I'm wide awake then.. I usually fade in and out of sleep watching tv untill maybee 4am when I can get into bed and sleep most of the time without RLS bothering me. Earlier then that the RLS keeps me up. For me the stockings help when I need them.

SquirmingSusan
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Post by SquirmingSusan »

I'm glad this topic got bumped up. I reread that article that Mark posted, and think I'll try that "treatment." I'm already about at the 7am - 3pm sleep schedule. I've been thinking that it's not so bad to sleep during the day as long as the kiddos are in school and the dh is at work. And I do work for myself and can work all night, but I do need to get out and do more marketing, and most of that needs to happen during the day.

I'm thinking that the days when you sleep during the evenings are probably the worst. I'm still trying to figure out a way to do this while traveling around the world. :lol:
Susan

jarvisbasnite
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 12:33 am
Location: Maple Plain, MN

circadium rythym

Post by jarvisbasnite »

Fixing my circadium rhthym was one of the first things that set me on my way to a string of now 27 nights full of restfull sleep . The other thing that I had to make routine was a daily dose of excercise. This was very difficult because for the first 3-4 weeks I did not see much improvement, but then all of a sudden I started getting 6hrs straight. Another thing that helped was my sleep specialist insisted that if I could not get to sleep in 20-30- min, then I had to get up and read until I felt tired enough to try it again, this really sucked the first few nights, but after about a week I was able to read before bed and fall asleep in exactly 10 min. each night. I also did give up all the things in life that I thought brought me pleasure before, but now realize that none of these is worth the risk of a bad nights sleep, especially with 4 year and 9 month old little boys. It has also amazed me how efficiently our brains can function with the proper rest each night. One more quick note, I was never a morning person my whole life and now I have become one and trust me it is a very special time of the day.

DrWass2
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Location: East Coast USA

Post by DrWass2 »

As far as moving your natural circadiam rhythm, I read some where that it is possible to move it later every day but not earlier, SO... to correct yourself if you are up late at night and sleep late in the morning,, you have to move forward around the clock, not backwards as we would like to do. If you move an hour or two each night it would take almost 3 weeks to work yourself forward around the clock to get into "normal" sleep cycle.

Most of us just don't have the ability or available life style to pull this off.
As my own boss, I start work most days at 10:00am and usually get to sleep around 2 am or later.....My restless leg varies, but when bad, it starts up about 7 or 8 pm and usually will fade about 4 am. Of course for me the pantyhose or compression stockings work great. The only thing that I really haven't found a great solution yet (working on it) is when it goes up into the groin. Anyway...good luck with the sleep cycle...stuff.

ViewsAskew
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Post by ViewsAskew »

I've been successively sleeping later, and going to bed later. The other day, I went to sleep at 11 AM, after staying up all night.

I'd agree that I find it easier to move it forward, than to back it up. Every time I try to back it up, I'm doomed. Within a day or two, it's moved forward again.

The problem was I couldn't convince myself to sleep from 11 to 8 PM, then start all over. Though I am self employed, I do see clients mostly during the day and I wasn't sure how long it would take me to continue to make the move to getting to bed at 10 or 11 PM.

So, I slept until about 3 PM, then got up and went to sleep about 2 AM. It made it easier to get to sleep than usual (I was tired), but not sure in the end I achieved anything.

I also have noticed that my RLS has moved to later as I've moved my sleep cycle later. It never used to bother me past 4 AM; now it bothers me up until about 8 AM or so.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

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