Kava

Please share your experiences, successes, and failures in using non-drug therapies for RLS/WED (methods of relief that don't involve swallowing or injecting anything), including compression, heat, light, stretches, acupuncture, etc. Also under this heading, medical interventions that don't involve the administration of a medicine to the body (eg. varicose-vein operations, deep-brain stimulation). [This forum contains Topics started prior to 2009 that deal with Non-prescription Medicines, Supplements, & Diet.]
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Neco
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Kava

Postby Neco » Tue May 13, 2008 10:56 am

Well, I have some spare cash courtesy uncle sam, so I bit the bullet and sent off for 30 capsules of Kona Kava's 84% kavalactone capsules.

I thought about using powder instead but this stuff tastes AWFUL and I wasn't sure I wanted to play "identify the flavored mix that works best" at this point. As far as I can tell the capsules are pretty concentrated as it is so I guess if they help my RLS at all I will look into trying some of the flavored varieties of products on their site..

Anyway.. I overnighted it so hopefully it will be here tomorrow at some point, because I am cursed with impatience. If it works, extra money well spent..

I will report back my experiences in this thread. Hopefully positive. :?

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Postby Polar Bear » Tue May 13, 2008 3:56 pm

Zach, I wish you well.
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Postby SquirmingSusan » Tue May 13, 2008 7:35 pm

I picked up some Kava capsules the last time I was at the food coop. It's called "Pharma Kava" and has 60 mg kavalactones per capsule. The brand is "Herb Pharm." I've had it for about a week now, and am too scared to try it. LOL.

So Zach, you let us know how it works and what the side effects are, and then maybe I'll try it. :wink:
Susan

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Postby ViewsAskew » Wed May 14, 2008 5:01 am

I didn't have any side effects at all when I tried it. It did lighten my mood, though. But, it could have been all placebo...
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

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Postby Neco » Wed May 14, 2008 6:16 am

Well taking it by the label you might get some mood effects, which it is supposed to be marketed for, but taking a larger amount, which I am guessing is more in line with the amounts that natives who prepare it themselves would be taking, and you'll likely get more pronounced effects.

Relaxation of the muscles, sociability, etc.. Even if it doesn't directly help RLS symptom resolution, if I can get the anti anxiety /relaxed effects out of it that might compare with what my usual dose range of methadone optimally provides, it could help me cut back on how much I am taking every once in a while. I would at least have less problems with running out early, etc is my hope.

They maintain their product in particular has never been linked to any liver problems or related deaths, and that they harvest the root only and not the leaves or stems, which are toxic and were the causes of the reported death controversy that came up in recent years.

There is actually a lot of info on their web site about Kava itself and its history, and the demonization of it by the West after its discovery through Natives in the area.

If it does work out they have some pretty neat and tasty looking products I'd like to try out though.. Cocoas and paste, some extracts, and a curious 5:1 ratio elixir that also contains blue lotus.

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Postby Aiken » Wed May 14, 2008 6:53 am

Zach--

If you haven't already, please make sure you check the web for any known interactions with opioids. I wouldn't want to see your account suddenly go silent...
Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.

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Postby Neco » Wed May 14, 2008 9:29 am

I haven't come across anything yet, but I will definitely remain vigilent. Never hurts to double check.

If anything I would expect effects to be synergistic, as some Kava experiences have been described as "narcotic" along the lines of Vicodin.

It's all heresay tho, I guess.. Everyone is different, as these things go.

And for those concerned about Liver damage, here is this.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/artic ... ln03a.html

It has also been suggested that unless you use fresh ground root, you simply aren't going to get the full effects that people often desire, from capsules for instance.. Another thing I'll have to test out.

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Postby becat » Wed May 14, 2008 2:33 pm

Momma Cat here.

I'm going to have to ditto what Aiken said.

Zach you be careful!

I take different things as well, but what Aiken did not say aloud, was that the herbal market is still very unregulated......in my opinion.

The natural things are the best way to go and if anyne gets comfort, I'm all for it. However, when mixing herbs and sometimes supplements with medications, the reactions are too many to count.

So please be very educated about this stuff and go slow and easy.

Ok, Momma Cat signing out.
LOL
Lynne

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Neco
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Postby Neco » Thu May 15, 2008 3:57 pm

Seems like my experience has mirrored what I've read.. I didn't really get much from these capsules, which was surprising..

I mean I could take the whole bottles worth in one sitting and know I'll get something then, but damn near half of it (after several previous dosings yesterday) and barely puts a dent in me..

I think to get what I'm looking for I will likely half to try actual fresh ground root, or a concentrated extract.. This isn't entirely uncommon but I was hoping maybe I'd have better luck with the pills.. Of course I should have had the foresight to nab another product or two since I was overnighting it anyway but I guess I wasn't thinking at the time..

I'll have to think about it... I know I can potentially get something, I just need to find the right amount, and delivery substance.

Pills = forget about it. The rest is still up for exploration I guess.


I'm gonna give one of their flavored drinks a try, and get some 5x extract and a 1x extract with it.. Then I'll have more leeway to play around I guess. Make the drink and spike it with the extract is the plan..

Seems to be something a lot of people do. Since the FDA like to claim they haven't inspected it but turn around and say "oh yeah this is the safest amount per dose" I don't think anyone really knows WHAT a good dosing range for this stuff is..

I know something I tried with the capsules was to eat fatty foods (what little I can take) as some of it supposedly extracts into fats. They recommend stuff like milk/coconut milk/pineapple juice when you make drinks for instance. So I will try something like that with the liquids for sure.

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Postby Neco » Fri May 16, 2008 5:46 pm

I've just got my package..

I'm not sure if the package is flimsy or the feds think they are smooth poking their noses where they don't belong, but the back of it (clear plastic) has a small puncture consistent with one of those small knives you see in the movies where people "test" the drugs they are about to buy.. lol probably just an accidental puncture though. I think its safe, nothing looks tampered with.

I don't think it was listed on the site but the drink mixed says its a standardized 4:1 extraction, which I guess means its 4x concentrated Kava. Think I will go to the store (again) as I forgot to pickup pineapple juice, not sure I wanna test it with just milk. The powder is very fine though and they say blending shouldn't be needed. 2 round teaspoons to 5 ounces of beverage, "to be enjoyed in a couple big gulps".

The 5:1 extract bottle comes in one of those bottles with a medical dropper built into the lid.. No information on how much your supposed to use though.. I will have to check the site or e-mail them to ask. The 1x extract doesn't have a dropper by the looks of the lid (didn't open it) and I guess its meant to be drink out of the bottle or added to a drink.

So gonna mix me up a drink soon as soon as I go get some juice. Hope I don't get the dreaded nausea, or puke or anything... I haven't read anything about people throwing up but they did get nausea proceeding the full effects that come after they recovered/calmed down.

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Postby Neco » Tue May 20, 2008 9:43 pm

After scrutinizing what appeared to be useless text I did find the dosing instructions on the extract bottles..

I think it does help in some mild way, but after trying it out a few times I don't think it really helps in any reliable way without possibly taking way more than even I am willing to try.

It does seem like a good thing to relax you at the end of a rough day though. Maybe a little more useful for those with ocassional RLS, as something to take with your current meds. But not for someone like me with 24/7 symptoms.

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Postby becat » Thu May 22, 2008 11:23 pm

Hi Zach,

Well I wanted to tell you that I was on a webinar last night and Kava Kava was brought up wihtin the presentation.

It was on the list of things that you should tell your doc your using.

Now, I'm just being a momma cat, so just me a second here.

The reason for being on that list was that it had a sedative effects and was most likely to interreact with your pain meds....

So go slow and let us know. I think you have a good idea, using it just every so often. That sounds a bit safer to me! :D

Hugs you,
Lynne


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