The tyrosine experiment
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rfish1966
tryptophan
Has anyone tried l-tryptophan along with l-tyrosine. After checking the FDA website I found out it is no longer banned and has been avalible since 1994. Because of the scare with the contaminated batch in the 80's a lot of companies will still not carry it, but I have found it on a few sites. Any experiences would be helpfull.
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Robin-Whittle
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:24 pm
Tryptophan (the "L-" means "Levo", or "left-handed" which is
the form humans need it in) is the precursor for serotonin.
Serotonin regulation seems to be imperfect and having more
tryptophan will tend to increase serotonin production. This
is likely to help with depression, but it can also make you
drowsy, which is bad in many respects, not least when driving.
Tryptophan may help you get to sleep, but as far as I know, it
will have no direct effect on restless legs symptoms.
Tyrosine is the precursor for dopamine, and it is clear that
a dopamine shortage is central to the RLS mechanism.
- Robin
the form humans need it in) is the precursor for serotonin.
Serotonin regulation seems to be imperfect and having more
tryptophan will tend to increase serotonin production. This
is likely to help with depression, but it can also make you
drowsy, which is bad in many respects, not least when driving.
Tryptophan may help you get to sleep, but as far as I know, it
will have no direct effect on restless legs symptoms.
Tyrosine is the precursor for dopamine, and it is clear that
a dopamine shortage is central to the RLS mechanism.
- Robin
I have no formal qualifications in any field. Internet discussion groups and
information from people with no medical qualifications - people who
have never met you - are no substitute for proper medical care and advice.
information from people with no medical qualifications - people who
have never met you - are no substitute for proper medical care and advice.
-
cornelia
Robin, I'm not sure, but I think I have read some posts from people who went to Orlando that we do not have a shortage of dopamine, but have it in the wrong times, like e.g. when healthy people have a lot of it at bedtime, we have a lot of it in the morning (something like that). Maybe the right thing to say is we lack it in certain times of the day. Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable can confirm this.
Corrie
Corrie
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ViewsAskew
- Moderator
- Posts: 16590
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
- Location: Los Angeles
Yes, Corrie. Good memory. The docs at the conference said that they used to think we didn't have enough dopamine. They now believe (not sure if that is "know") that we have our dopamine at the wrong times. This explains why many of us have no trouble going to sleep somewhere between 2-5 AM and sleep soundly until 10-noon - this is when we have the right chemical mix in the brain for sleep the non-RLSers have at 9-11 PM.
That's the gist of it at any rate. I just looked through my notes and found these things related to it:
-D3 receptor is the most important
-Dopamine system in the spinal cord may be more responsible for RLS than the brain dopamine (which may be why those with spinal surgery/injury often get RLS)
-The dopamine problem is one of non-regulation. The analogy at the conference was of a thermostat. When you are cold, you turn up the thermostat, but soon you are hot, so you turn it off. Soon you are cold again, so you turn it way up. Well, the dopamine is working like that. In the morning, we produce sooooo much that the body shuts it off and says - NO MORE- by morning, we don't have any again, so it overproduces.
That's the gist of it at any rate. I just looked through my notes and found these things related to it:
-D3 receptor is the most important
-Dopamine system in the spinal cord may be more responsible for RLS than the brain dopamine (which may be why those with spinal surgery/injury often get RLS)
-The dopamine problem is one of non-regulation. The analogy at the conference was of a thermostat. When you are cold, you turn up the thermostat, but soon you are hot, so you turn it off. Soon you are cold again, so you turn it way up. Well, the dopamine is working like that. In the morning, we produce sooooo much that the body shuts it off and says - NO MORE- by morning, we don't have any again, so it overproduces.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Ann
This is an argumentative question at all----I'm just really curious. You took such great notes at the conference. Mine are sketchy.
What I would like to know is what about some of us who have RLS all night? Or, at least well past 2 am? This is an honest question. Am I just weird? Am I doing something wrong? Last night, or this morning rather, I was up and down all night. I did fall asleep about 7 am and slept for a couple of hours, so that part fits me. But what about the rest of it?
I know you're not a doc---but you do have a good handle on a lot of this. Just wondering.
Thanks, Ann.
Jan
P.S. Awhile back, I was doing so much better, but now---WHEW!!! I'm not under more stress--in fact, I'm under less stress. ARGHHHH!
This is an argumentative question at all----I'm just really curious. You took such great notes at the conference. Mine are sketchy.
What I would like to know is what about some of us who have RLS all night? Or, at least well past 2 am? This is an honest question. Am I just weird? Am I doing something wrong? Last night, or this morning rather, I was up and down all night. I did fall asleep about 7 am and slept for a couple of hours, so that part fits me. But what about the rest of it?
I know you're not a doc---but you do have a good handle on a lot of this. Just wondering.
Thanks, Ann.
Jan
P.S. Awhile back, I was doing so much better, but now---WHEW!!! I'm not under more stress--in fact, I'm under less stress. ARGHHHH!
No one is alone who had friends.
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ViewsAskew
- Moderator
- Posts: 16590
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
- Location: Los Angeles
It really sounds like you are having a truly awful time.
I don't think you're weird at all. The range they give is wide and probably isn't exactly the same for all of us. Sara said that this didn't work for her at all, so maybe this isn't as much of an issue for some people. I also think that this is like a bell curve. Most of us are in the middle, and some are on the ends. Also, I'll guess that it applies much more to those of us who are med-altered
. Once you start meds, you change what is "normal" and the meds create other highs and lows.
But if you have augmentation, I am guessing that all of the rest of this doesn't matter anymore. Once mine was 24/7, I didn't sleep ANY. I'd fall asleep at most for a 1/2 hour and be awakend by the sensations. I remember falling asleep while doing stretches! The stretch would give me temporary relief and I was SO tired my body would sieze the moment to sleep. I'd wake up in a few seconds to few minutes when the stretch would stop working. So, if that's where you are, I don't think it matters what time of day it is.
You know, I can relate to being scared about stopping the meds. I was terrified. You know it took me 3 tries to stop the Mirapex. It was harder than stopping smoking. But, golly, now that I've done it? What a wonderful difference.
Dr Allen looked rueful and sorowful when he talked to me about augmentation. They just don't know how many people get it, but the amount rises each year as more people take these drugs and report what happens. Just three years ago "they" said Requip would have only 5-10% augmentation. Last year? 30%. Dr Allen was emphatic that they only way to determine if it's augmentation or progression is to stop the DA completely; in fact, he advocated taking NO medication for at least two weeks. He looked like it pained him to say it and that he completely understood how hellish that is. I couldn't do it. I tried twice and didn't sleep any for days. I gave up on day 6 the first time, and day 4 the second. The second time it seemed even worse, because I'd already done it once and had not had any good results.
But the third time I used the opiates and I got through it. It wasn't easy, but I did get some sleep and the RLS wasn't 24/7 nor as severe. By day 7, it suddenly was much better, and at two weeks it was great. It's the only way to know what your RLS level is really like and to determine how much is meds and how much is what you actually have.
Jan, do your best to hang in there. Between this and the other issues, it must feel like that is no hope at all. I wish I could find some for you.
Ann
I don't think you're weird at all. The range they give is wide and probably isn't exactly the same for all of us. Sara said that this didn't work for her at all, so maybe this isn't as much of an issue for some people. I also think that this is like a bell curve. Most of us are in the middle, and some are on the ends. Also, I'll guess that it applies much more to those of us who are med-altered
. Once you start meds, you change what is "normal" and the meds create other highs and lows.
But if you have augmentation, I am guessing that all of the rest of this doesn't matter anymore. Once mine was 24/7, I didn't sleep ANY. I'd fall asleep at most for a 1/2 hour and be awakend by the sensations. I remember falling asleep while doing stretches! The stretch would give me temporary relief and I was SO tired my body would sieze the moment to sleep. I'd wake up in a few seconds to few minutes when the stretch would stop working. So, if that's where you are, I don't think it matters what time of day it is.
You know, I can relate to being scared about stopping the meds. I was terrified. You know it took me 3 tries to stop the Mirapex. It was harder than stopping smoking. But, golly, now that I've done it? What a wonderful difference.
Dr Allen looked rueful and sorowful when he talked to me about augmentation. They just don't know how many people get it, but the amount rises each year as more people take these drugs and report what happens. Just three years ago "they" said Requip would have only 5-10% augmentation. Last year? 30%. Dr Allen was emphatic that they only way to determine if it's augmentation or progression is to stop the DA completely; in fact, he advocated taking NO medication for at least two weeks. He looked like it pained him to say it and that he completely understood how hellish that is. I couldn't do it. I tried twice and didn't sleep any for days. I gave up on day 6 the first time, and day 4 the second. The second time it seemed even worse, because I'd already done it once and had not had any good results.
But the third time I used the opiates and I got through it. It wasn't easy, but I did get some sleep and the RLS wasn't 24/7 nor as severe. By day 7, it suddenly was much better, and at two weeks it was great. It's the only way to know what your RLS level is really like and to determine how much is meds and how much is what you actually have.
Jan, do your best to hang in there. Between this and the other issues, it must feel like that is no hope at all. I wish I could find some for you.
Ann
Last edited by ViewsAskew on Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Thanks for your reply, Ann. I must be really tired---I just read my post and I meant to say "This is NOT an argumentative question at all". Glad you didn't take it that way I don't even know what I'm typing. I leave words out. GEEZE!
Well, I guess I have to figure something out, don't I? I can't continue on this way and what else is there to take???
Strangely, I'm not depressed about all of this. That's a plus. I guess I'm just going to have to snatch whatever periods of sleep I can. Luckily, I no longer work outside the home, so at least I don't have to work at a stressful job in this condition.
I'm anxious to see what the new neuro says. I may have to give her office a call and tell them what I'm going through to see if I can get in before June 26.
In the meantime, life will be interesting. My husband told me I was cranky last night and I told him he was lucky I wasn't on the roof with a machine gun. He laughed, I laughed----
Anyone who says RLS isn't a horrid thing to have has no idea, do they?
Wishing sleep for everyone!
Jan
I don't even know what I'm typing. I leave words out. GEEZE!
Well, I guess I have to figure something out, don't I? I can't continue on this way and what else is there to take???
Strangely, I'm not depressed about all of this. That's a plus. I guess I'm just going to have to snatch whatever periods of sleep I can. Luckily, I no longer work outside the home, so at least I don't have to work at a stressful job in this condition.
I'm anxious to see what the new neuro says. I may have to give her office a call and tell them what I'm going through to see if I can get in before June 26.
In the meantime, life will be interesting. My husband told me I was cranky last night and I told him he was lucky I wasn't on the roof with a machine gun. He laughed, I laughed----
Anyone who says RLS isn't a horrid thing to have has no idea, do they?
Wishing sleep for everyone!
Jan
No one is alone who had friends.
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Guest
we do not have a shortage of dopamine, but have it in the wrong times, like e.g. when healthy people have a lot of it at bedtime, we have a lot of it in the morning (something like that).
Corrie, that is the one thing I really could relate to when I read the notes from the conference.
Has anyone ever had the cardian rythms therapy? I know that the sleep center near here offers this. They work to *reset* your bodys natural sleep cycle. Whether it would work for RLS sufferers I doubt it.
Just throwing this out don't know if anyone has any ideas...
The Ultram during the day, and the Lortab at night pretty much keep the RLS sensations at bay... yet I have problems getting to sleep. Like said around 3-4AM I finally get to sleep, but have to be up at 6AM and it is a pain.
These periods of insomnia follow a fairly consistant monthly cycle (when up at night I tend to look at the night sky and am reminded by the moon cycle!) ... don't know if it is just my pattern that I get to the point I am exhausted so I sleep for a few days and start all over again ...
Don't think it is the Lortab as the quantity doesn't change when I can fall to sleep.
It is one of those things that someday will be explained, but probably not in my lifetime!
Hazel who is rowing alongside the rest of ya![/quote]
Robin,
Yes, fitnessforoneandall was the article. Thanks for taking the research on it a bit further, I will check out the other info that you had listed.
I have RLS every nite, so I am a good candidate for testing, as it is nearly always the same.....with the exception that it is worse when I am stressed or when I walk on concrete for long distances.
The tyrosine continues to be a real help! If I have a nite when my legs are not quite ready to relax, I just take another Tyrosine, instead of Ibupropen or Mirapex. Maximally I take the accumulative of 1500mg throughout the day, and many days I just take two 500mg. I can actually feel it going to work. It has been a really good piece of the puzzle for me.
My life and sleep has returned to normal to the extent that I am not logging on as often and am doing everything like usual. However, I still feel that I can work this puzzle till I can go off Mirapex.
I have tried to not take my little bit of Mirapex, but so far I still need it. It seems weird to me that such a small dosage would really matter, but evidently it does.
Please keep more info coming, I appreciate your input.
Sherry
Yes, fitnessforoneandall was the article. Thanks for taking the research on it a bit further, I will check out the other info that you had listed.
I have RLS every nite, so I am a good candidate for testing, as it is nearly always the same.....with the exception that it is worse when I am stressed or when I walk on concrete for long distances.
The tyrosine continues to be a real help! If I have a nite when my legs are not quite ready to relax, I just take another Tyrosine, instead of Ibupropen or Mirapex. Maximally I take the accumulative of 1500mg throughout the day, and many days I just take two 500mg. I can actually feel it going to work. It has been a really good piece of the puzzle for me.
My life and sleep has returned to normal to the extent that I am not logging on as often and am doing everything like usual. However, I still feel that I can work this puzzle till I can go off Mirapex.
I have tried to not take my little bit of Mirapex, but so far I still need it. It seems weird to me that such a small dosage would really matter, but evidently it does.
Please keep more info coming, I appreciate your input.
Sherry