TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Please share your experiences, successes, and failures in using non-drug therapies for RLS/WED (methods of relief that don't involve swallowing or injecting anything), including compression, heat, light, stretches, acupuncture, etc. Also under this heading, medical interventions that don't involve the administration of a medicine to the body (eg. varicose-vein operations, deep-brain stimulation). [This forum contains Topics started prior to 2009 that deal with Non-prescription Medicines, Supplements, & Diet.]
prpl luv
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby prpl luv » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:54 pm

fixrls wrote:...I have been experimenting with electrode placement and intensity. I place the active electrode of one channel on each calf (largest muscle belly) and the inactive electrode on the front of my legs. It seems low intensity of a slow pulsed current shuts off all sensations of "vibration" in my legs. After an hour I turned the unit off and had the best night's sleep in months...

@ fixrls I decided to try a TENS unit in order to decrease my dependence on meds to control my RLS symptoms. I was wondering what TENS unit you are using. I bought a Healthmate Forever unit from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/USD723178S-Health ... =tens+7000). Despite positive reviews, I am not sure if it is a good unit. I am considering getting a TENS 7000 (DT7202) unit. This is the link to the instruction manual for the TENS 7000 (https://www.tensunits.com/mm5/graphics/ ... DT7202.pdf).
1. I would appreciate your opinion on these 2 units.
2. You said that you use the TENS on both calves simultaneously. I have read in instruction manuals that one should not use TENS on both calves simultaneously because it could cause cardiac rhythm disturbance. So, on which part of the front of your leg do you place the inactive electrode?
3. Which is the inactive electrode--the red one or the black one? (The electrodes of the Healthmate unit are not even marked at all--they both look exactly the same.)
I tried to send you a private message, but it seems that I cannot do this because I just joined recently. Thanks.
Gayle. Searching for non-drug ways to treat my RLS

sleepdancer2
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby sleepdancer2 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:36 am

Just an FYI, I have successfully used a TENS for over 4 years. In the beginning I experimented with various placements of the electrodes on my legs and feet and the stimulation seemed to make them worse. I settled on placing the electrodes on my lower back/buttocks in the same manner it was prescribed for low back pain. This has served me well and I've not needed medication. I know everyone's experience is different. Good luck finding what helps you.
My Augmentation Sleep Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE7WA_5c73c

prpl luv
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby prpl luv » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:21 am

@ sleepdancer2. Thank you very much for responding to my post. I have seen your previous posts and made note of what helped you. I also made note of what helped others in terms of using TENS. I can see from reading about the experiences of others with RLS that it's another case of "different strokes for different folks". I have already ordered and received the Healthmate Forever unit which I mentioned in my previous post. I decided to get it based on mostly positive reviews on Amazon and on the fact that it has 4 outputs, so one can use as many as 8 electrodes at one time. However, the instruction manual that came with the unit had glaring inconsistencies, and Healthmate Forever failed to reply to a question that I asked them on Amazon. This makes me wary of their products. I now ordered the TENS 7000 product from Amazon but have not received it yet. The TENS 7000 also had mostly positive reviews and its manual (which I was able to find on the internet) is detailed and professional. I also ordered additional electrodes, which would be compatible with either unit. This way I will be able to test both units on myself and still be able to return whichever unit doesn't work for me. (I will also use my own battery, so as not to open the battery that comes with the unit.)
Even though you obviously have had your TENS unit for some time, I would be curious to know its model number and manufacturer.
I plan to use different placements for the electrodes and will post my results in the future.
Gayle. Searching for non-drug ways to treat my RLS

Aipulu
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby Aipulu » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:39 pm

Is anyone familiar with the Quell Wearable Pain Relief? One of my doctors said it is related to TENS type electrical stimulation. You wear it on the upper calf. good for pain relief but my question is whether our RLS symptoms are the type of pain that can be blocked by this unit, and presumably by TENS units. I just ordered it. My fiancee has various pain issues so perhaps it will help at least one of us. It has a 60 day money back guarantee so figured it is worth a try.

Richard

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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby ViewsAskew » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:39 am

Richard, RLS/WED isn't traditional pain - for many of us it's not painful at all (it's not for me - it is annoying and relentless, but not painful). BUT - some of us find relief. So, it's worth a try. It hasn't helped mine - but it could be because I don't have the painful kind, it could be I don't have the right placement - no idea. But, I did try it - and would have been thrilled if it had worked.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

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Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

sleepdancer2
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby sleepdancer2 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:57 am

FWIW, I don't know that I'd describe the sensations that accompany PLMD movements as pain either. I tried placing the electrodes in numerous locations on my legs and found they caused extreme agitation of my RLS. The only placement of the electrodes that works for me is on my lower back/buttocks. I guess it interrupts the signals to the legs.
My Augmentation Sleep Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE7WA_5c73c

Aipulu
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby Aipulu » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:58 am

I get WED sensations in the hands. Lately my hands have been painful. I have been attributing the pain to WED, for which I have severe symptoms. But I have been working outside the house on some strenuous landscaping tasks. It is possible this is the source of the pain. Otherwise my WED sensations are like both of unity describe, very annoying. I'll report back on what happens when I get the unit. With your comments I am not expecting great results. My fiancée has sciatica and perhaps fibromyalgia. Those are pains for which the Quell claims it can relieve pain.

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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby ViewsAskew » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:50 pm

Sleepdancer2 gets excellent relief with the TENS - so it can absolutely work. Try moving the electrodes around and see. I couldn't find a placement that worked, but I could have just missed it, too.

And, I get nasty myofacial trigger points - my unit helps those tremendously. Also helps my BIL's neuropathy. So, it's a great thing to have around whether it works or not.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Aipulu
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby Aipulu » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:53 am

I got my Quell Pain Management unit in the mail yesterday. I have tried it twice. The first was last night. I usually get pains in my hands and sometimes in one foot even after taking 600 mg of Horizant and 50 mg of Ultram. I took those twice pills and then put on the Quell. the electrical impulses, even at the lowest setting, are pretty strong. It did seem to block out the usual symptoms. It was somewhat better that the hand and foot pains but still not very comfortable. Today I tried it again. in the afternoon I normally get very sleepy, followed within 15 minutes by RLS sensations in both the hands and feet, I wanted to see if I could lie down, since I very sleepy, and and least rest or perchance to sleep. The Quell electrical impulses did not stop the RLS sensations in my feet; I couldn't lie down very long.

I also have sciatica, although it is slowly getting better. I can't see myself driving or using the Quell in a movie or play or other situations where I need to sit without move around for extended periods. I am probably going to return it within the 60 day money back period.

But if someone can advise me how I might place the s differently to control RLS sensations, I am willing to experiment some more. The electrode band is about 12" X 2" and fits inside an elastic band that will wrap around my thigh, or calf, or upper or lower arm. The instructions say to put in on one of your thighs, about an inch below the knee. Any suggestions for where to try it on my legs or arms?

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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby ViewsAskew » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:02 am

Wish I knew. Do they have a website with any instructions?
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Norm
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby Norm » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:42 pm

Electric current is very effective for reliably desensitizing the nerves associated with RLS. I and many other RLS patients are proof of this. However, the real difficulty is getting the electric current to go where it need to go. This is the challenge and the reason why TENS is very often a hit a miss proposition. Not only is the placement of the electrode pads critical, the varying impedance of the tissues within the body effect the path of the vast majority of the electrical current flow. If this path does not pass through the specific nerves associated with RLS symptoms for a particular patient, the results are negative.

Anyone who has tried TENS for RLS with positive results should continue, by all means, The problem is that what will work for one may not work for another due to the factors mentioned above.

I have seen unpublished patient statistical information on patients using the CP Relief Wand for RLS under the RLS protocol described for that device which is published on their website. Approximately 50-60% of patients with RLS below the knee, and who are unable to take RLS drugs due to side effects, have had very positive and reliable results with this patented advanced neuro stimulation medical device. The patients who can effectively control their RLS with this device generally possess good manual dexterity and are easy learners. They also have severe RLS symptoms. The reason this device works reliably is that it has a patented applicator head which focuses the specially modulated electric current directly through the symptomatic nerve.

There is a lot to be learned regarding TENS and RLS but very few medical experts have the background or motivation to understand the methods used and the actual flow of electricity through the body. More research on this will lead to a better understanding for all.

Norm
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby Norm » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:30 pm

Aipulu,

Happened to notice your post regarding you pain relief problems with a TENS unit. As I had mentioned with RLS, TENS devices transmit a current through the electodes, into and through the body to the other electrode. The path of this current is the most critical element but is mostly unknown. In order for relief and good therapy using these devices, the current must flow directly through the pain origin nerve center. If it does, it will desensitize the nerve and bring temporary relief for 80% of patients. The other 20% are immune to this therapy.

The therapy time neccessary for relief is proportional to the amount of current passing through the nerve. There are serious limitations to the density of the current passing through the skin and this is another problem.

I have seen statistical information on patients using the CP Relief Wand for severe pain. This device produces reliable and repeatable results. 80% of these patients had pain levels of 8-10+ and have seen their pain reduced to zero or to level of 2 or less in minutes using this advanced neuro stimulation medical device. The relief process is easily repeatable and 100 % of these patients continue to receive relief after the initial demonstration by the doctor or distributor. Many of these patients had given up hope of relief.

Hope this sheds some light on your situation.

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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby badnights » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:52 pm

Hi Norm
How did you access this unpublished statistical information? Are you affiliated with CP Wand manufacturers in some way? It would be nice if these results were published so others can learn from and build on them. The main reason people choose not to publish in my experience is when their results do not actually support their claims.
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION:
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prpl luv
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby prpl luv » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:05 pm

As a clinical psychologist, I’m familiar with experimental design and how to evaluate validity of studies. The statistical info cited by Norm was based on a “study” conducted by the makers of the CP Relief Wand, and not published in peer reviewed professional journals. I’m very skeptical about this info, since it is not based on studies conducted by independent parties with no vested interest in the outcome. I have looked on the CP Relief Wand website. I think that with this product as well as with some other expensive devices, it is possible to replicate their action/function with less expensive devices that have similar technical specifications.
This brings to my mind the Relaxis Pad. I looked on this company’s website to find out more about the study that they claim showed the effectiveness of the Relaxis Pad. But rather than comparing the results of Relaxis Pad use to results obtained with various (much less expensive) vibrating pillows and mats, they compared the results of their product to using some kind of sound. Unfortunately, this study was deemed by the FDA to be sufficient to approve the Relaxis Pad. It could be that the FDA only seeks proof that a product is effective and safe in order to approve it, and does not consider whether similar results can be obtained with generally available products that are much less expensive.
Gayle. Searching for non-drug ways to treat my RLS

sleepdancer2
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Re: TENS stimulation for WED/RLS: Effective parameters

Postby sleepdancer2 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:16 pm

Perhaps Norm is the inventor, Norm Schroeder? My success with the TENS Unit makes me willing to give this a chance. If they ever want someone to compare it to TENS results, I'd happily be their lab rat. :D
My Augmentation Sleep Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE7WA_5c73c


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