We have really been having a time with my 16 year old daughter. She's brilliant, in college and getting a 4.0, but is so depressed and unmotivated. And she keeps making up learning disabilities as excuses for not doing chores or learning to drive, or remembering to take her meds. Like we'll buy that! Today started out badly, and she was just abusive to us. I just can't take being sworn at and having things broken all the time, not to mention her threats of doing harm to herself. I've been at my wits end. I almost never cry and I sobbed all day long. (I told my husband to take a picture of it, 'cuz it's so rare, and he did.)
She is just so despairing and insistent that life has no meaning. Sheesh, I'm an ordained minister and I can't help her out right now. Our family has just been through so much trauma in the last few years. First my daughter had ulcerative colitis and spent 2 years in and out of the hospital. She finally had her entire colon removed at the ripe old age of 13. Then last fall my husband was diagnosed with AML leukemia, and given a 25% chance of survival. After dropping everything and checking into the hospital for a whole month - in semi-isolation because he had no white blood cells whatsoever - and then continueing with 3 more rounds of chemo, followed by a stem cell transplant - he is doing fine. No trace of leukemia.
But the trauma remains. My daughter is suicidally depressed and I'm on the edge. Add my own chronic health issues to the mix, and we're really a mess around here. My son complains that he needs to get sick to get any attentions, and he's right.
If come across as totally nuts sometimes, I come by it honestly.
Susan
Stressed and distressed
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SquirmingSusan
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i sympathize with you on your teenager problem, i have a brilliant 15 yr old who chooses to follow her friends and be on the stupid side, i mean we are talking straight A's to dumba$$ overnight! and it's driving me up the wall. i am on the verge of taking her out of public school and homeschooling her.
if you believe she is that depressed if she won't go to a doctor then call someone to come to you.
there are hardly any words it seems to say to comfort you in this situation except that i will pray for your family.
dee
if you believe she is that depressed if she won't go to a doctor then call someone to come to you.
there are hardly any words it seems to say to comfort you in this situation except that i will pray for your family.
dee
Last edited by tazzer on Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
I feel like a science project!!!
“The syndrome is so common that it should be known to every physician.”
Dr Karl Ekbom, 1945
“The syndrome is so common that it should be known to every physician.”
Dr Karl Ekbom, 1945
Susan
I'm so sorry you've been going trough such tough times. You've had so much, and now your daughter.
I have 3 children--all adults, now--a son, and twin daughters. I know it was hard when our kids were in high school and that was a while ago---they are 32, and 29 now. It's so much harder, now. Kids are faced with so many things that even the best home life sometimes doesn't help.
It sounds like you are stressed to the limit, Susan. I know when my kids hurt, it hurts me so much more. And, I could kill them, sometimes, too! Even now. lol I'm glad you are getting some of this out, even if you don't like to cry. I think it helps.
We've had problems, also. I won't go into detail, but there were times when I thought I would lose my mind. It was all consuming. So, I don't think you're nuts. You're a mom who cares and who feels helpless right now.
I hope things settle down for you. I know you have a good grasp on the situation, even if you don't think you do. Sometimes, we can only do so much, Susan. Then, we might need help. I don't know.
Please let us know how things go, okay?
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers....
Jan
I'm so sorry you've been going trough such tough times. You've had so much, and now your daughter.
I have 3 children--all adults, now--a son, and twin daughters. I know it was hard when our kids were in high school and that was a while ago---they are 32, and 29 now. It's so much harder, now. Kids are faced with so many things that even the best home life sometimes doesn't help.
It sounds like you are stressed to the limit, Susan. I know when my kids hurt, it hurts me so much more. And, I could kill them, sometimes, too! Even now. lol I'm glad you are getting some of this out, even if you don't like to cry. I think it helps.
We've had problems, also. I won't go into detail, but there were times when I thought I would lose my mind. It was all consuming. So, I don't think you're nuts. You're a mom who cares and who feels helpless right now.
I hope things settle down for you. I know you have a good grasp on the situation, even if you don't think you do. Sometimes, we can only do so much, Susan. Then, we might need help. I don't know.
Please let us know how things go, okay?
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers....
Jan
Last edited by jan3213 on Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No one is alone who had friends.
stressed and distressed
Oh Susan I am so sorry to read what you are going through. I do not have any children and have no idea what you are going through, but will be here for you no matter what.
I just wish I could I be there right now and hold you and tell you that all will be just fine. You will be on prayer list everynight.
I felt so bad with what is happening with your daughter then your husband being so sick then. I am glad that he is doing better.
Please,please anytime you want to just talk, vent or even scream about it, we are here for you. If I give you a big hug will that help somewhat
(((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))
I just wish I could I be there right now and hold you and tell you that all will be just fine. You will be on prayer list everynight.
I felt so bad with what is happening with your daughter then your husband being so sick then. I am glad that he is doing better.
Please,please anytime you want to just talk, vent or even scream about it, we are here for you. If I give you a big hug will that help somewhat
(((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))
Charlene
Taking one day at a time
Taking one day at a time
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ViewsAskew
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What a lot you all have going on in your lives - I can imagine how overwhelming that must feel. Teenagers, especially smart ones, have such a hard time trying to find their way. They see all the inconsistensies, they try to separate (and often do that in ways that are very painful to us), they want us and need us and reject us all at the same time. Thank goodness we are only teenagers for a short while! I still remember the angst and how horrible it felt.
While your daughter may be playing your stings, it sounds like she is asking for help (maybe while pushing it away) in the only way she can at this time. Susan, if you were ministering to a family with a similar situation, what would you tell them? It can be so hard to get any perspective when we're in the middle of something, especially one so stressful as yours.
All things do pass, but it doesn't always help to hear that when you are in the middle of it. They all don't pass in the same way, either. I hope this passes with a healthy result.
While your daughter may be playing your stings, it sounds like she is asking for help (maybe while pushing it away) in the only way she can at this time. Susan, if you were ministering to a family with a similar situation, what would you tell them? It can be so hard to get any perspective when we're in the middle of something, especially one so stressful as yours.
All things do pass, but it doesn't always help to hear that when you are in the middle of it. They all don't pass in the same way, either. I hope this passes with a healthy result.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
HI Susan and all......
This subject just hits my heart like no other, even RLS.
I found out far too late that I was not cut out to raise children. I have two boys, both 19 (just), the eldest is my gift child from God, by my husband's first marriage. The youngest is my gift to the family by my first marriage.
I love them with a place in my heart that can take a punch and remain numb to most of the pain, but as they get older it's harder. This generation of MTV, regular TV gone to cussing and sex sells, music, forgett-about-it......They don't seem to hold the same morals, ethics, or standards that my generation still had. I'm praying hard that this "phase" brings out a better group of people than it looks like it is headed.
I will say to you that any suicide thoughts and comments should never be over looked, even if you think it's overboard, call them to the mat for those. Seek help for her asap. Better safe than sorry. Always. At 16 you still have the right to act as her parent and check the laws of your state just in case you need them to back yourself up. Sounds harsh, I realize, but just don't let her play with those words or thoughts, ever. And no, sometimes we are not the ones to be of help to them. I understand what Ann is saying fully, about trying to break off the parent chain and become your own person. I fully remember most (lol) of my teenage years. But there are rules about how and when you address a parent. Nothing wrong with that, EVER. I have one that followed and one that dug his own path, no matter the depth. lol Both so smart it's off the chart, but good gosh, where is common sense and how do you teach or give a person that theory in life. UUUUffffaaaaaaa
Brings Bill Cosby to mind......2 things.
1. All children have brain damage....." why did you break that? I don't know!" lol
2. "I brought you into the world I can take you out.!" Joking of course, but the thought is a life saver for those of us that have children to big for their own britches.
I understand feeling buried and just so full of answer less questions, fear, anger, overwhelming need to run and hide. Been there for a while, but I am determined that I can hang on.
I haven't said much, but since the day I came home from Christmas (Dec. 26) I have had my fill of things that just have happened. LIFE!
The first morning home, Life Alert calls to tell me that my wonderful neighbor down the block is not responding to calls. I run down there to meet the EMTs and that was the beginning of a long and sad 11 days. 3 trips to the ER and all those days of going down there to make sure she is OK, eating on time, whatever. We lost her (her blessing) on the 6th of Jan...God Bless her she is OK now. So then a week with the family to settle things for her send off (funeral). 2 days after she pasted, my oldest son comes in from work serious, very serious. He has joined the Marines and ships out Feb. 5th. This child with college paid for and a 3.6 avg. goes and makes this choice. I cried for days, but I am proud, strange but true. I come from a military family, brothers and uncles, so how could I not be proud of him. BUT my heart says don't look at the reality of what it could mean, look away......far away.
To some that are reading this and have been waiting on return emails, I have no brain left. I'm stuck in numb right now. I will get to them and I have things to say, but what really matters right now?
I couldn't tell you for sure.
My kids are the reason I woke up for what seems a lifetime or two, but they are growing up and adults......whether they act like it or not. I have to let them fly without strings attached........this is so hard.
I'm praying for us all with kids, it's the only way to cope most days. I envy those with children that did not feel the need to challenge the world.
God Bless us all and hang in there hun, do what you know is right and pray for the best.
Hugs, love, and prayers in the moon,
Lynne
This subject just hits my heart like no other, even RLS.
I found out far too late that I was not cut out to raise children. I have two boys, both 19 (just), the eldest is my gift child from God, by my husband's first marriage. The youngest is my gift to the family by my first marriage.
I love them with a place in my heart that can take a punch and remain numb to most of the pain, but as they get older it's harder. This generation of MTV, regular TV gone to cussing and sex sells, music, forgett-about-it......They don't seem to hold the same morals, ethics, or standards that my generation still had. I'm praying hard that this "phase" brings out a better group of people than it looks like it is headed.
I will say to you that any suicide thoughts and comments should never be over looked, even if you think it's overboard, call them to the mat for those. Seek help for her asap. Better safe than sorry. Always. At 16 you still have the right to act as her parent and check the laws of your state just in case you need them to back yourself up. Sounds harsh, I realize, but just don't let her play with those words or thoughts, ever. And no, sometimes we are not the ones to be of help to them. I understand what Ann is saying fully, about trying to break off the parent chain and become your own person. I fully remember most (lol) of my teenage years. But there are rules about how and when you address a parent. Nothing wrong with that, EVER. I have one that followed and one that dug his own path, no matter the depth. lol Both so smart it's off the chart, but good gosh, where is common sense and how do you teach or give a person that theory in life. UUUUffffaaaaaaa
Brings Bill Cosby to mind......2 things.
1. All children have brain damage....." why did you break that? I don't know!" lol
2. "I brought you into the world I can take you out.!" Joking of course, but the thought is a life saver for those of us that have children to big for their own britches.
I understand feeling buried and just so full of answer less questions, fear, anger, overwhelming need to run and hide. Been there for a while, but I am determined that I can hang on.
I haven't said much, but since the day I came home from Christmas (Dec. 26) I have had my fill of things that just have happened. LIFE!
The first morning home, Life Alert calls to tell me that my wonderful neighbor down the block is not responding to calls. I run down there to meet the EMTs and that was the beginning of a long and sad 11 days. 3 trips to the ER and all those days of going down there to make sure she is OK, eating on time, whatever. We lost her (her blessing) on the 6th of Jan...God Bless her she is OK now. So then a week with the family to settle things for her send off (funeral). 2 days after she pasted, my oldest son comes in from work serious, very serious. He has joined the Marines and ships out Feb. 5th. This child with college paid for and a 3.6 avg. goes and makes this choice. I cried for days, but I am proud, strange but true. I come from a military family, brothers and uncles, so how could I not be proud of him. BUT my heart says don't look at the reality of what it could mean, look away......far away.
To some that are reading this and have been waiting on return emails, I have no brain left. I'm stuck in numb right now. I will get to them and I have things to say, but what really matters right now?
I couldn't tell you for sure.
My kids are the reason I woke up for what seems a lifetime or two, but they are growing up and adults......whether they act like it or not. I have to let them fly without strings attached........this is so hard.
I'm praying for us all with kids, it's the only way to cope most days. I envy those with children that did not feel the need to challenge the world.
God Bless us all and hang in there hun, do what you know is right and pray for the best.
Hugs, love, and prayers in the moon,
Lynne
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SquirmingSusan
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tazzer wrote:i sympathize with you on your teenager problem, i have a brilliant 15 yr old who chooses to follow her friends and be on the stupid side, i mean we are talking straight A's to dumba$$ overnight! and it's driving me up the wall. i am on the verge of taking her out of public school and homeschooling her.
if you believe she is that depressed if she won't go to a doctor then call someone to come to you.
there are hardly any words it seems to say to comfort you in this situation except that i will pray for your family.
dee
Thanks Dee. I homeschooled both kids right up until my (now) 15 year old drove me totally crazy a few years ago by arguing with me all day long. I sent him to "St. Convenience" Catholic school a few blocks away, and it was perfect for him. OK, we're not Catholic, but they didn't care and neither did we. He graduated from 8th grade in a class of 21 students. If I could afford private high school, I'd send him, but now he's in public school in a class of 5 million or something. He's a good kid, though, really responsible, and we can get him to do anything by threatening his precious computer time.
My daughter starts her second semester in college tomorrow, after a long, long month break. Hopefully it will give her something to think about besides the apparent meaninglessness and difficulty of life.
Good luck with your daughter! That peer pressure to be stupid is really something nowadays. If you pull her out to homeschool her, try to find a local group for activities.
Thanks for the prayers. We all need them, don't we.
Susan
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SquirmingSusan
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jan3213 wrote:Susan
It sounds like you are stressed to the limit, Susan. I know when my kids hurt, it hurts me so much more. And, I could kill them, sometimes, too! Even now. lol I'm glad you are getting some of this out, even if you don't like to cry. I think it helps.
There's a reason some species eat there young!
We've had problems, also. I won't go into detail, but there were times when I thought I would lose my mind. It was all consuming. So, I don't think you're nuts. You're a mom who cares and who feels helpless right now.
I hope things settle down for you. I know you have a good grasp on the situation, even if you don't think you do. Sometimes, we can only do so much, Susan. Then, we might need help. I don't know.
I'm beginning to think that "having a grasp on the situation" is part of the problem. I need to learn to separate my own feelings from those of my daughter's and my identity from hers. And to do everything I can to make sure she doesn't hurt herself, and then to LET GO, let God, turn it over to the universe, trust that everything will work out...
Please let us know how things go, okay?
Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers....
Jan
Yup, will do. Thanks.
Susan
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SquirmingSusan
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Re: stressed and distressed
ctravel wrote:Oh Susan I am so sorry to read what you are going through. I do not have any children and have no idea what you are going through, but will be here for you no matter what.
I just wish I could I be there right now and hold you and tell you that all will be just fine. You will be on prayer list everynight.
I felt so bad with what is happening with your daughter then your husband being so sick then. I am glad that he is doing better.
Please,please anytime you want to just talk, vent or even scream about it, we are here for you. If I give you a big hug will that help somewhat
(((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks Charlene, you are so caring. I wish someone could be here and hold me and tell me everything will be fine! I'm burned out on being mommy and want to be the kid again.
Thanks for the prayers and for the support.
Susan
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SquirmingSusan
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ViewsAskew wrote:While your daughter may be playing your stings, it sounds like she is asking for help (maybe while pushing it away) in the only way she can at this time. Susan, if you were ministering to a family with a similar situation, what would you tell them? It can be so hard to get any perspective when we're in the middle of something, especially one so stressful as yours.
Thanks Ann. We've been working furiously to get her help, and she now has a new Psychiatric nurse practitioner who she likes, and saw a therapist from a local hospital today who works with families affected by cancer. We've got names for other therapists, and even names for a shrink for me. We're clear to her that we will take her to the ER and have her admitted if she needs that. It's amazing how few resources there are for depressed teens, even with the high teen suicide rate. It's scary.
If I were ministering to a family in a similar situation, I would hopefully not tell them much, but would try to sit with them and witness their pain. Let them cry and yell. (Of course, if someone was threatening to do themselves or someone else harm, I would send them to the ER.) Perhaps read a lament Psalm. Good question!
One day at a time...
Susan
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SquirmingSusan
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becat wrote:HI Susan and all......
I understand feeling buried and just so full of answer less questions, fear, anger, overwhelming need to run and hide. Been there for a while, but I am determined that I can hang on.
I haven't said much, but since the day I came home from Christmas (Dec. 26) I have had my fill of things that just have happened. LIFE!
The first morning home, Life Alert calls to tell me that my wonderful neighbor down the block is not responding to calls. I run down there to meet the EMTs and that was the beginning of a long and sad 11 days. 3 trips to the ER and all those days of going down there to make sure she is OK, eating on time, whatever. We lost her (her blessing) on the 6th of Jan...God Bless her she is OK now. So then a week with the family to settle things for her send off (funeral). 2 days after she pasted, my oldest son comes in from work serious, very serious. He has joined the Marines and ships out Feb. 5th. This child with college paid for and a 3.6 avg. goes and makes this choice. I cried for days, but I am proud, strange but true. I come from a military family, brothers and uncles, so how could I not be proud of him. BUT my heart says don't look at the reality of what it could mean, look away......far away...
God Bless us all and hang in there hun, do what you know is right and pray for the best.
Hugs, love, and prayers in the moon,
Lynne
Oh Lynne, you're really having a time of it too. Don't you just want to tell the universe to STOP and quit dumping on you? Just give me a break, will you?!
I would totally kill my son if he upped and enlisted in the military!!! But I would be proud, as well. Life is never safe, and a lot of kids these days really do seem to find a sense of purpose in serving in the military. When most of our societal values point people in the way of getting jobs to make money and lead comfortable lives, there is some nobility in bucking the system.
One day at a time, my dear. What we're worried about likely won't happen anyway.
Hugs to you.
Susan
Your daughter sounds alot like my son at that age; bright, talented, and depressed! He too would be abusive, make threats, brake things and generally lash out at us. I think that those kids who are so bright have it especially rough; their minds are way ahead of their emotions. It broke my heart - like yours feels now. When it's your own kid it's hard to deal with, no matter what your training. Do all you can do to get your daughter to the doctor - make sure that there isn't a medical problem to cause the depression, then it's to counseling and medication. The teen years are hard on lots of kids. Add to that the fact that her dad had a life threating illness and her mom a chronic one and you have a recipe for depression. As parents we'd do anything to protect our kids and sometimes we just can't. My prayers are with you and your family. Good luck! By, the way, my son is now a happy, healthy 27 year old!
stressed and distressed
Susan, you are more than welcome. I just wish I could do something for you. The best thing that I can do is be there for you whenever you need to talk, vent or scream.
My heart aches when I cannot physically help and see how you are hurting. Like I said in the last post, I will keep you in my daily prayers and have been doing that. God has helped me through alot of tough times and know he will not turn his back on you. Faith is a wonderful thing and so glad that I have alot of that.
Take care my friend and I am here whenever you need me.
My heart aches when I cannot physically help and see how you are hurting. Like I said in the last post, I will keep you in my daily prayers and have been doing that. God has helped me through alot of tough times and know he will not turn his back on you. Faith is a wonderful thing and so glad that I have alot of that.
Take care my friend and I am here whenever you need me.
Charlene
Taking one day at a time
Taking one day at a time
LOL Susan, if the universe would listen I might.
I've been trying to decide which is stress I cause myself and stress that happens normally, not getting far on that one thus far.
And no, I don't really think the universe is dumping on me. It seems that part of my joy in life requires me to live with the results of my labors....lol
We (hubby and I) loved my neighbor dearly, stayed involved after her husband (beloved as well) past 3 yrs ago., so it makes since that we would be there no t matter what. And proudly we were.
If I could ignore others really well and not care, then I might have less to do.
But doubt that will be the case. 
Your right worry never floated any boat I ever made it to shore in. So why now? Sounds strong right? LOL And thank you for the hugs I'll take them.
About my son, I am proud. The military has shaped and changed many a person and helped them figure out where they want to head in life. I so do not want to be a hypocrate about this, but that is my kid.....I have to let him fly from the nest, just wish I could tie a string to him and pull him back from any danger. Moms go figure. I have one with little direction and one with a ton of direction, which one do I watch? Can't do it really, I've probably grieved for a couple of years that they would soon start their own lives, didn't need a "mommy" so to say.
We'll make it as parents Susan, gosh I don't think anyone has gotten a true rule book for parents when they give birth. LOL We'll walk this one strong or cry in the bathroom.
Hang in there and Charlene hope all is well with you this week too.
Lynne
I've been trying to decide which is stress I cause myself and stress that happens normally, not getting far on that one thus far.
And no, I don't really think the universe is dumping on me. It seems that part of my joy in life requires me to live with the results of my labors....lol
We (hubby and I) loved my neighbor dearly, stayed involved after her husband (beloved as well) past 3 yrs ago., so it makes since that we would be there no t matter what. And proudly we were.
If I could ignore others really well and not care, then I might have less to do.
But doubt that will be the case.
Your right worry never floated any boat I ever made it to shore in. So why now? Sounds strong right? LOL And thank you for the hugs I'll take them.
About my son, I am proud. The military has shaped and changed many a person and helped them figure out where they want to head in life. I so do not want to be a hypocrate about this, but that is my kid.....I have to let him fly from the nest, just wish I could tie a string to him and pull him back from any danger. Moms go figure. I have one with little direction and one with a ton of direction, which one do I watch? Can't do it really, I've probably grieved for a couple of years that they would soon start their own lives, didn't need a "mommy" so to say.
We'll make it as parents Susan, gosh I don't think anyone has gotten a true rule book for parents when they give birth. LOL We'll walk this one strong or cry in the bathroom.
Hang in there and Charlene hope all is well with you this week too.
Lynne
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Sometimes it's sad that there is no "one solution" fix all, but it sounds like you may be on the right track with psychiatric help. It seems like she's been through a lot for sure, and that is definitely taking a toll on her.
I went through various stages in my adolescence and teens as well, where I was either verbally abuse to everyone be they my parents, or others I'd known my whole life, been in and out of depression, and definitely went down the whole "what's the point of life?" deal too, which I still debate myself on to this day.
Even after having been through all that, I find it always seems hard for people like "us" to even offer advice to others in the same situation, because it can sometimes be so complex.
The one good thing you have got to do is not give up. Even if it's the absolute worst day in the world, just tell yourself that she's simply coping and doesn't "mean it", whether it's swearing up a storm or fighting everything. The one mistake both my parents made was to withdraw from the situation, and simply leave me alone to my own devices.. They were always supportive when I tried to get ahead (I tried for my GED at 17 but that fell apart for various reasons), but no one ever really "rode my ****" I was never kicked out to the curb, etc.. Nothing really drastic was done to indicate it was time for me to change. It's not something I blame them for either, I'd probably do the same in a similar situation.
Just don't let yourself become a bystander. Remain pro-active, no matter how painful it may seem. Another resource you may look into versus the ER is looking up human health services for your county. That's where my doctor referred me to when I finally decided I needed to talk to someone about a year and a half ago.
Sometimes it's sad that there is no "one solution" fix all, but it sounds like you may be on the right track with psychiatric help. It seems like she's been through a lot for sure, and that is definitely taking a toll on her.
I went through various stages in my adolescence and teens as well, where I was either verbally abuse to everyone be they my parents, or others I'd known my whole life, been in and out of depression, and definitely went down the whole "what's the point of life?" deal too, which I still debate myself on to this day.
Even after having been through all that, I find it always seems hard for people like "us" to even offer advice to others in the same situation, because it can sometimes be so complex.
The one good thing you have got to do is not give up. Even if it's the absolute worst day in the world, just tell yourself that she's simply coping and doesn't "mean it", whether it's swearing up a storm or fighting everything. The one mistake both my parents made was to withdraw from the situation, and simply leave me alone to my own devices.. They were always supportive when I tried to get ahead (I tried for my GED at 17 but that fell apart for various reasons), but no one ever really "rode my ****" I was never kicked out to the curb, etc.. Nothing really drastic was done to indicate it was time for me to change. It's not something I blame them for either, I'd probably do the same in a similar situation.
Just don't let yourself become a bystander. Remain pro-active, no matter how painful it may seem. Another resource you may look into versus the ER is looking up human health services for your county. That's where my doctor referred me to when I finally decided I needed to talk to someone about a year and a half ago.