Insomnia

Anything on your mind that isn't about RLS? It's nice to realize that there is life beyond this disease and have an opportunity to get to know our online family in a different context.
Post Reply
badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Insomnia

Post by badnights »

This is a continuation of the discussion on sleep that got started under New to RLS in the thread "Another new member"

PB is right, I use the Delta Sleep System 2.0 CD by Jeffrey Thompson.

But now I'm trying something else that seems to work too, if you can hook up a computer by your bed. It's a program called NeuroProgrammer, free full trial for 15 days. It comes with different "sessions" you can play, they make wierd repetitive sounds that are supposed to stimulate your brain to produce waves of a matching frequency. There are sessions for sleep, for study, creativity, addiction relief, etc etc. I think it works even better than the CD but I've only used it two nights. I am using speakers not headphones, and it's suppsed to be better with headphones.


Neuroprogrammer uses isochronic tones which are the best tone to use for brainwave entrainment, but not as popular as monaural beats and binarual beats because the latter two are easier to hide inside pseudo-music.

Binaural beats are the least effective, and easiest to hide in music. They require headphones because your brain builds the beat as the difference in frequency between input in each ear - and if one ear hears any of what the other ear is supposed to be hearing, the beat creation doesn't happen. The Jeffrey T. CDs use binaural beats.

Monaural beats are built outside the brain and fed to your ears via speakers or headphones, already at the frequency you want your brain to adopt. But sort of slurred together. Isochronic tones are very distinct, isolated tones which is why they're harder to hide in music and most effective. That is my dummy's understanding of it.

NP also lets you record your own affimations (I love salads, I will fall deeply asleep, I am a worthwhile person, etc) and scripts, and you can play them back with the sound sessions. I'm just starting to dig through the documentation. I think something's wrong with my sound card because I only get the beats from one speaker and static from the other :(

SquirmingSusan
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:08 am
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Post by SquirmingSusan »

Well, I tried the Neuro Programmer software for a day and then bought it. All it took was 1 nap with the delta sleep program to convince me that it works. I felt so good when I woke up! Of course, having narcolepsy, that didn't last long. I've already altered that program and set it to one of my favorite classical music pieces, and then exported it so I could put it on my ipod. I figure between anxiety, depression, sleep issues, relaxation and meditation, and reprogramming bad habits, I could use that software every hour of every day.

Thanks for posting about it.
Susan

Betty/WV
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: West Virginia, Wild and Wonderful

Post by Betty/WV »

Sounds good, but I am totally lost. You gave a good explanation, but not being very good with all this kind of thing I didn't understand it all.

Did you say there is a CD with these sounds??? Where do you get it, etc.

I guess I'm to old to understand all this technical dialogue.

BETTY/WV
Thanks to rls.org, I have learned so much about my condition. I have received encouragement from my friends here. This is a site I can come to when I am up most of the night, and I vent, and know those who read my messages understand

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Post by badnights »

Betty, initally I was talking about CDs of music mixed with binaural beats. Those were normal CDs that you'd stick in a CD player and use with headphones. But then I discovered a software program, which is what Susan also has fallen in love with. You run it on your computer, and it basically does everything for you, but you can customize the sessions if you want, as Susan has done. The sessions provide isochronic tones or monaural or binaural beats, as you choose. You can either hook up your computer to speakers or headphone near your bed, or you can use one of the program's utilities to export the session to an MP3 player or burn it to a CD.

The program, which is called NeuroProgrammer, has one of the best user interfaces I've seen in a long time, and some very well-done instructional videos which aren't really necessary because the program is so easy to figure out. But the instructional videos are also the best I've seen in forever. The program is downloadable. The trial version lets you do everything except export sessions to MP3 or CD. It allows you a 2-week trial.

You're definitely not too old to understand things. You're using a computer, aren't you? You didn't grow up with one of those, I bet!

You can get super-technical with NP and buy a bio-feedback device (yes, I ordered one) and set each session to fine-tune its offered frequencies to whatever gives the desired effect on your heartrate. I am also going to order audiostrobe glasses, I didn't notice the ability of the program to use those at first. you put on LED glasses and they flash stuff to you based on a sound signal, to supplement the session sounds. I might hate it but I'll try it :)

It does more things: you can set the screen to flash (gave me sore eyes even tho I wasn't looking at it) and you can add visualizations (you have to download an add-on tho) (those are moving displays of colors and shapes like media players make when you're playing a music file on your computer). But the heart of the program is the sounds, which you can use without any extras except speakers. None of the rest of it is necessary (tho the biofeedback might be cool).

I LOVED this at first, but lately I have not fallen asleep as easily with it, so I am saddened by that. But it is still working better than nothing, which I tried again last night to learn just how pathetically incapable I am of sleeping at normal times.

Polar Bear
Moderator
Posts: 8799
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Polar Bear »

Hmmm... I kind of understand in theory what its about with the computer software but putting it all into practice is another thing. I don't even own an ipod or an MP3 player, have never put photographs from camera onto the computer, not great at using the DVD player - mostly because I haven't tried or there is someone to do it quicker.

I guess I'm with Betty/WV on this one and would be looking for the CD, which I think is available ok on line at Amazon.
Betty
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

Betty/WV
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: West Virginia, Wild and Wonderful

Post by Betty/WV »

No I didn't grow up with the computer, or TV for that matter. Gives you some idea of how old I am. But I am proud of myself for learning to use the computer and I did it mostly on my own. With a little help from my grandson. I'm glad I did learn to use it, how else would I have come across RLS.org. Which has helped me so much with dealing with this monster RLS. :?

And I have just learned to text on my cell phone. WOW--- the first time I texted my daughter I got a text back and she just said, "Oh, my, goodness." I think they are surprised by my ventures. :roll:

Thanks bethf for the information.

BETTY/WV
Thanks to rls.org, I have learned so much about my condition. I have received encouragement from my friends here. This is a site I can come to when I am up most of the night, and I vent, and know those who read my messages understand

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by ViewsAskew »

Betty, you go girl! I am so impressed when anyone ventures outside of their normal, whatever that it.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Post by badnights »

Yup, don't you dare ever think you're too old to learn something! You've already proven yourself wrong.

PB, if you have a computer, you don't need anything else for NP to be effective. I went on and on about all the extras, but none are necessary. The program is easy to use, you open it and choose a session and it starts making noises. All you need is to have it close to your bed.

If that's hard to do, which I imagine it would be if you don't have a laptop, then the CDs are the way to go. You do need headphones with any CDs that say they use binaural beats, though; the brainwave entrainment doesn't work without them.

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Post by badnights »

I should actually start a new thread under Non-pharmaceutical therapies for this comment, but it felt too awkward to do that.

This is an example - for me, a shining example, the best I've used yet - of concentration taking your mind off the RLS and making life possible.

My RLS has been breaking through in the afternoons lately, gently but nonetheless destructively. Even though it's not powerful enough to make me need to walk, it ruins my concentration. I have started taking my drugs earlier and earlier, and today in despair I wanted to take some very early, at 3PM, which would mean I wouldn't have enough to get through the night... then I decide to try playing a NP session instead. I used their Focus session (mainly at 18 Hz, in the beta range I think?) (still haven't got thru the documentation) and 2 hours passed without my even noticing it!

I have to tone myself down here so I don't sound like a salesman. I'm thrilled with the the program. I use zopiclone at night way less, and now (once anyway; better not count my chickens before they're hatched) it has taken away the need for drugs during the day.

Post Reply