Anything on your mind that isn't about RLS? It's nice to realize that there is life beyond this disease and have an opportunity to get to know our online family in a different context.
+++++++++++++++++++++ Moderator's edit: The creator of this thread, rthom, edited most of his/her original posts, replacing the text with simple emoticon symbols. Although you can read the responses made by other people, you can no longer read the deleted posts. +++++++++++++++++++++
Last edited by rthom on Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
I think a person can't identify when it's right. Period. There is no human way to ever be able to say, for yourself or anyone else, that it's OK to end a life.
There are no clear criteria, and there never will be, on which to base the judgement. And it IS a judgement, a product of human reasoning and emotion. How could we hope to define by what criteria we would measure that a life is no longer worth living? How could we hope there might be definitions that would allow for a clear interpretation in every case, and the same interpretation by everyone, at all times?
We've all been through this I'm sure: something that was a certainty to us at one time, is no longer certain or is downright untrue. Speaking particularly of suicidal thoughts, I have been certain there was nothing left, and even lost my capacity to believe that that certainty would dissipate with time (a capacity that had kept me alive before); I had nothing then, and I was certain of it. But today I want nothing more than to live forever. My certainty was meaningless.
If that certainty had gone on for a year instead of 3 days, I would be dead. I would still have been wrong, but I wouldn't have lived to know it. Is 40 years of suffering worth a day of joy? Is 4 years worth a week? Who can judge? Even the person who has experienced that day of joy after the 40 years will answer the question differently depending on if she is in the joy or the suffering at the moment.
We can't judge that an animal's suffering is greater than its desire to live, either. How the heck could we possibly know? We might have to put an animal to sleep for other reasons - perhaps to end our own suffering as we watch it suffer - but we are patently incapable of measuring its desire to live and weighing that against its suffering.
We are incapable of measuring the difference between weight of suffering and desire to live in humans, as well. And in ourselves, as well. People should not be prevented from making a choice, because it's theirs to make, but neither that person nor anyone else can ever know if it was the "right' choice.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.
I am aware that I was silent with regard to a response on this thread. I needed time to consider the subject and how I felt about it.
About 5 years ago I made a decision to have my well loved cat put to sleep. Vet told us she was going to die and sure enough after about one month she was not eating, then not drinking, started staggering and eventually could not get to her feet. How long had she left, we don't know, certainly her time was very close. We took her to the vet and he agreed kindest thing was to put her to sleep.
Why did we do it, was it for her comfort, was it to relieve our distress. Certainly my distress came into it, I couldn't bear to watch her suffer, how much she was suffering I don't know. Does a cat know that her dignity has gone ?? She did not appear to be in pain although her days/hours were numbered.
With regard to us as human beings I find it difficult to put into words my thoughts on such a deep subject. Badnights' post pretty much covers how I feel, and certainly says it so well that I will reiterate her comments. Life and emotions are always in varying shades of grey, and how dark or light that shade may be can change without rhyme or reason.
I think we should have choice - even if our choice would be not to choose.
This, and other topics like it, is controversial because it brings up such strong emotional responses - almost visceral. It also ties into religious beliefs, which complicates it even more.
To me, it's extremely personal and is about your own ethical code - what you think is right in the world. I don't have to walk in other people's shoes....not up to me to tell them what they should do or not do, what's right or not right, etc. If someone is in pain and doesn't feel they can continue, who am I to force them to reconsider? I've been in a place where it definitely crossed my mind, but managed to get to a different place and was glad I didn't make that decision. Maybe I didn't feel bad enough. I don't know.
Depending on the country or state in which you live, assisted suicide is considered OK. It's just not many places as of yet.
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
When I joined, I hadn't slept in months, i suppose. Well, some, but not very much. 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there, etc. That was the hardest part of my life to date.
Over the past 6 or 7 years, I've tried many drugs, alone and in combo. Sometimes I'm tired, but serene. Sometimes I'm awake and hateful. Sometimes I can't work, can't concentrate, and can't remember basic things. It all depends on the drugs.
I've had to let go of every belief I held about taking drugs. I had to look my resistance to trying certain things in the eye and agree to let it go. I had to try at least ten different doctors, maybe fifteen, to find someone who would really work with me.
At this point, I am thankful for the sleep I get with my current regimen, but very unhappy with the side effects. I alternate between wanting to jump off a cliff but not having enough drive or energy to find a cliff, and feeling really good about things, but being awake all night long (indeed, it's 6 AM and I'm still awake because it's a methadone night).
I never would have thought that I'd be an experimenter, but I am. Because I have some tramadol from an injury this winter, I know that the tramadol taken with the Mirapex lifts my mood, keeps me from ewnating to jump out the window, and also helps keep me asleep (the Mirapex causes me to awaken a LOT after about 4 hours of sleep - once every 5 to 30 minutes). I've also learned that if I take a Lyrica about an hour before I take the first dose of Methadone, that I can prevent the insomnia, get to bed at a reasonable time, and while a bit tired the next day, it's much better than taking the methadone by itself. I only have about 15 Lyrica left, so don't use it on nights when I don't have to do anything important the next day.
I don't have doctor right now that I think I can convince to let me try these things, though. I'm working on that. But, what I do have is hope that if and when I get the right combination of things, I can find a workable middle ground.
I don't know how many things I've tried to get here....but it's a lot. Alone or in combination, I've taken clonazepam, temazepam, zolpidem, diazepam, hydrocodone, levorphenol, methadone, ocycodone, ocymorphone, propoxyphene, tramadol, topiramate, pregabalin, gabapentin, ropinerole, pramipexole, and levadopa/carbidopa.
I've learned that for my body, a single drug taken alone is not a good option. I get too many side effects by the time the WED is controlled. I have to take small amount of two or more things together to get the best effects and keep me as close to the real me as possible.
I have no idea if you can find a combination that works for you as I have. I do think it's worth trying as many combinations as you can. I also believe that there isn't anything that shouldn't be tried. We're all so different. There's no way that a doctor (or we) can tell if a combination will or won't work.
I hope you can find something soon that gives you some peace and that doesn't continue to cause so many problems for you.
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
I am truely sorry that your nights are so miserable. I too dream a lot and they are always stressful, indeed a couple of days ago I was thinking to myself that they really on the verge of a nightmare. Hmmm... I guess maybe that is also relative.
It is so sad when you talk of how your family are affected and I wonder if you have ever considered family counselling. (Don't know what age your children are). Something along the lines of how the family can cope with dad's disease and poor health, come to an understanding as to how this is noone's fault and that no guilt should be carried by anyone - including you. If you were to know that your children and your wife were able to cope this may relieve the burden you have put on yourself.
Please note that I know nothing about counselling and could be way off the mark here, but it is just a thought.
Oh, it certainly makes sense. I lived for 22 years with someone who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and as much as I tried to understand and learn, it was still a difficult journey.
Occasionally I make suggestions, and that is all that they are, a thought for consideration
rthom you didn't respond to PB's suggestion that the kids see counselors to be sure they're not carrying inappropriate guilt. That is something you can't do, that might need doing.
Have you thought of leaving your family for two weeks every month? Some people are on shift work with that schedule at remote mine-sites, they spend two weeks onsite then two weeks back home with the family, so it's possible to have a functional family that way. I don't know if you can find a way to make it work financially, but it's an idea.
Re thinking your family would be better off without you permanently; isn't your wife is narrowing your options by saying she wants you to stay with the family as long as you're alive -is not that desire causing you to think of ending your life intentionally? I know you've considered endlessly what the multiple negative effects on your children would be. Are you trying to figure out whether the positive effects would balance those? The positive is that the downward tug of your mood and pain and grief on your family would end. But of course it wouldn't, the day to day dynamics would be different but there would still be long-lasting effects... I repeat what I said in my first response, you can't figure this one out because you don't have enough data, & you never will because it involves looking into the future.
Some other things you said have triggered a response in me - you said you were responsible for your family's happiness ("This is making my kids lives miserable and it's not right. It is my responsibility to fix it and make it a good life for them not ruin their futures."). What do I want to remind you of here - Some responsibility is yours, but not all. Raising a family is a community effort, and there is even responsibility on the kids themselves... it is not on your shoulders alone to make everyone happy, to ensure their success in life, etc - , and just like you will never claim total credit for good things happening, preventing bad things is a shared job - wife, teachers, community, kids themselves.
You also said you've always had horrible nightmares and feel worse at night in general. You do realize that must be a chemical issue? you feel weird at night because one of your disorders or medications is altering your brain chemistry at night. What else could it be? I am trying to pinpoint why I find that soothing to realize, and I think it's mostly because it means I am not fundamentally flawed; perhaps also because someday the cause of the problem might be understood and fixed.
Your small demon overwhelmed me with sorrow for you, hallucinations are a predictable consequence of sleep deprivation (it's "normal" hahaha); how does your poor body carry on?
Where does drive come from? You need energy to have drive, but another essential ingredient is hope. With hope, despite very little energy, some sort of drive happens; without hope, no drive will happen, no matter how much energy you have. When there is hope, there is a reason to go on living, and when there is no hope, we stop breathing. All the area in between is degrees of hope. You've sunk pretty low on the hope scale. I wish I had the magic to bring it back, because I know it's a random beast and comes and goes with no bearing whatsoever on logic and circumstance. If I could give you hope, then you would have drive and desire, and influence your family's mood positively, despite nothing else having changed.
That's partly why I suggest going away for a while. Change can create hope, that's the only thing semi-predictable I've noticed about the comings and goings of hope.
I think talking about these things is better than living with them alone in our heads.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.
Oh rthom I am really feeling for you. I had a suicide attempt due to depression 5 years ago and I am very grateful today to be alive. I am a pain in the butt for my children in many ways and have caused trauma to them with my diseases and disorders. Things have changed in 5 years and I can see that ALL OF IT is meant to be the journey that my family and loved ones walk together. My issues have made my kids stronger in their adulthood. Now some counseling along the way happened for sure. What I know with absolute 100% certainty looking back is that a completed suicide would have destroyed a part of my children's souls forever, with no opportunity to intervene or redeem. I feel ashamed....but mostly grateful when I think of that time in my life. You have no idea if things are going to change and how they will change. There may be a cure one day. Don't underestimate your importance as a presence in this life for you kids, family, even how you support people with our disease. I like some of the ideas suggested. I HEAR YOU ARE SUFFERING. You are important to your family. Hang in there friend.
