Can RLS be psychological

NickAtNite · Post by **NickAtNite** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:02 am

Hey Guys/Gals

New to the forums, but certainly not new to RLS. I was wondering if any of you have had any of the similiar experiences.

When I lay down to sleep I often dread a RLS What I call (outbreaks) haha. 9 times out of 10 when I think about it, I get it. However if I'm dead tired and I just go right to sleep I don't have them. I have even experimented with myself while sitting on the couch, I can almost think hard enough about getting an outbreak that I actually do.

Nick

Post by **ViewsAskew** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:06 am

It could be chance...but no question there is a component to it related to thinking in general.

When we are actively thinking, we don't have RLS (or as much of it) the vast majority of time. The RLS Rebel created a whole book out of learning how to attend to other things until the RLS goes away. So, if you are thinking of nothing...except the dreaded RLS...maybe that's enough to allow it to happen.

Maybe it's more like a gateway. Active concentration closes the gate (as so certain drugs, time of day, etc.). Inactivity opens the gate.

When you are so exhausted you fall asleep, there isn't enough time to open the gate.

Whaddya think?

maddielouise1 · Post by **maddielouise1** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:09 pm

Also, when you are dead tired and go to sleep, how do you know you really aren't still moving your legs? There is really no way to know unless someone tells you that you move (i.e. I used to kick my husband pretty hard at night, which he really appreciated), or they monitor you in a sleep study. In my case (and in many others here), you also can wake yourself up frequently with all the movement.

Post by **Polar Bear** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:57 pm

NicaNite

I have noticed the same thing.

If I am lying in bed, doing ok, and think about it (rls), more often than not.... bubble bubble.. slowly in the background it develops. I reasoned to myself that it was not that I consciously thought about the rls, it was that it (rls) had started to 'bubble in the background' so slowly that I don't conscously notice at first, but enough to ring a little bell in my brain that said... 'I don't have symptoms - or do I ??? oh yes, maybe I do... oh there they are'.

Hmm... on the 'thinking' issue'. I reckon being engrossed can only hold the symptoms at bay for a while, cos if sitting/lying still, then no matter how good the book is, eventually the little demons attack.

ctravel12 · Post by **ctravel12** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:53 pm

Hi NickatNite and welcome to this group. That has also happened to me at times so I try not to think about but it is easier said then done.

Have a good weekend.

Aiken · Post by **Aiken** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:30 pm

Keep in mind that thinking hard about something, especially when stressful, will affect the chemistry in your brain. As this is considered to be a dopamine issue in the brain, it's very very possible that you're affecting your dopamine levels.

There's also the fact that when you stress about something, your whole body will tend to tense up somewhat, and that will absolutely exacerbate RLS.

I think the best way to put it is that you can trigger this physical/neurological syndrome with a psychological event, but it's not actually psychological itself.

SquirmingSusan · Post by **SquirmingSusan** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:01 pm

I don't think that thinking about it brings it on, at least for me. I think that it's already there and thinking about it brings it into awareness.

Scarlett46 · Post by **Scarlett46** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:33 am

I've wondered this in the past few weeks myself. Seems that my symptoms have gotten worse, and happen more often since I took the step to discuss it with my doctor.

Could it be simply that it's in the front of my mind these days?

Could it be worse from the trial of Mirapex that the doctor gave me?

Could it be that work is getting increasingly boring, and stressful?

Probably some of each of the above... but I have seriously considered forgetting all of the discussions I've had with the doctor and not "trying to fix it" to see what happens.

ctravel12 · Post by **ctravel12** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:50 am

Scarlett46 wrote:I've wondered this in the past few weeks myself. Seems that my symptoms have gotten worse, and happen more often since I took the step to discuss it with my doctor.

Could it be simply that it's in the front of my mind these days?

Could it be worse from the trial of Mirapex that the doctor gave me?

Could it be that work is getting increasingly boring, and stressful?

Probably some of each of the above... but I have seriously considered forgetting all of the discussions I've had with the doctor and not "trying to fix it" to see what happens.

Scarlett you have alot on your plate now so it is hard to say what is causing this. I know some say your mind cannot cause this, but each person is different so that is really a matter of opinion.

Also how long have you been on Mirapex and how many mgs are you taking?

Stress can definitely trigger the rls.

I hope that you have a dr that is knowledgeable about rls and is willing to work with you and above all listen to you.

Please keep us posted. Have a great weekend.

mio · Post by **mio** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:08 am

interesting idea. I too thought I could feel that I could sense it and try to control by concentrating hard on something else, either making myself extremely tired or reading a can't put down book - and then put it down,so keeping the images in my 'front brain'. I had sleep study to investigate apnea and although I only stopped breathing for 0.5 secs, I awoke 5 times from RLS and insomnia and also recorded 273 leg movements in the time they recorded that I was actually asleep. So I guess, your legs do keep moving!

Scarlett46 · Post by **Scarlett46** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:22 pm

ctravel wrote:Scarlett you have alot on your plate now so it is hard to say what is causing this. I know some say your mind cannot cause this, but each person is different so that is really a matter of opinion.

Also how long have you been on Mirapex and how many mgs are you taking?

Stress can definitely trigger the rls.

I hope that you have a dr that is knowledgeable about rls and is willing to work with you and above all listen to you.

Please keep us posted. Have a great weekend.

I was taking the starter pack of Mirapex. I have since seen the doctor, and have discontinued it completely. Last night was my first dose of Klonopin (the alternative that the doc prescribed).

One of the reasons I like my doctor, is because he is so very knowledgeable about migraines. I've had so many doctors blatantly tell me it was "all in my head". I've learned a lot from him about these. He seems to be very understanding of the sleep issues, and believes in them (said he has had to do a sleep study himself in the past). However, the fact that he is pushing for the sleep study and the sleep specialist tells me that he is aware that his knowledge may not go as far as what I am needing.

Sucks that it's got to be such a financial issue... But my doctor seems to be trying to work with me on that as much as possible too.

Anyway... I will say this in response to the original post:
It is NOT psychological if that means "It's All In Your Head"!!!
However, many psychological things can trigger it or make it worse.

Our minds have much power that research hasn't "proven" yet... But we do have some mental power over how good or bad we feel phycically. Years ago, I was introduced to Dr. Bernie Siegel's books, and they truly changed my outlook on, and approach to life in general. He's a surgeon who works with cancer patients, but also believes stongly in the healing power of the mind. You might think that such a book doesn't pertain to you because you don't have cancer, or know anyone with it... but neither did I at the time, and it really changed things for me.

OK... I really didn't mean for that to sound like an advertisement! But what I am trying to say is this:
1. Negative thoughts really do bring us down. If we tell ourselves over and over "I Just Can't Sleep", chances are, we won't be able to sleep.
2. Positive thoughts help tremendously! You may not be able to "positive" yourself completely healthy without outside help, but it sure makes your chances better.

KBear · Post by **KBear** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:10 pm

I know that when I'm in a bad "phase' I do dread going to bed and feel like I'm just waiting for it to start. What works for me is to keep my mind occupied at bedtime with a book or Sudoku puzzles until I start to nod off. Then I'm usually able to fall asleep.

Unfortunately when I am in a bad phase the RLS will wake me up 20-30 minutes later (unless I take meds). What I want to know is what causes a good phase and how can I keep it going. No matter what the RLS always comes back eventually even if I have a good week or two.

ctravel12 · Post by **ctravel12** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:52 pm

Very good comments Scarlett especially the one with negative thoughts. We all try not to have them; however sometimes it not so easy. I am basically a positive person but things do happen............

I know when I was working I would say on a Sunday night "I hope that I sleep tonight" well guess what I did not sleep and I tried not thinking that; however you have to train your mind not to think that way. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. You have to work real hard at it.

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:22 am

RLS is definitely psychological as well as physical. If I worry about getting an attack it will likely bring one on. That aside, if I am upset, worried about anything or anxious about anything that will bring on a bad case of RLS also. My upstairs neighbor used to be really loud and give me such bad anxiety that I kept having RLS attacks because of it, even when it was quiet up there I'd still be worried and anxious. The mind is very powerful and what you think often can often make your RLS worse.

bharrod · Post by **bharrod** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:45 pm

Yes, before I started taking Methadone for my RLS if I would even think about getting RLS then I would immediately get it.
For instance one night I laid in bed and I said to myself "Wow, it's 10:00pm, and I am lying in bed and I have no RLS, wow this is great, but I hope I don't get it now that I started to think about it" then BAMM it comes full fledged on and keeps me up for hours. I do think a lot of it is in my head too. Seriously I believe we can bring on our own misery for fear of getting it.

It's the secret theory, you attract what you think in your mind, if you think you will get it, you will, if you think you won't and believe it, you won't I am trying to practice that in my everyday life, the law of attraction in love, happiness and with family too.