RLS and Anxiety/Panic Disorders

[Sara]

Hello, Folks--

I tried to get this discussion going over in special populations quite a while ago, but it never took off. I'm wondering if I do it "poll-style" and put it in a more popular part of the forum, it might generate a little more discussion. Our dear Jumpy's on-going "RLS and Depression" thread has touched on it (Thanks, Cornelia for the interesting research results you posted over there!) , but from some of the comments, especially of some of the newer members, I thought it MIGHT be worth re-visiting in its own right.

I HOPE that there will be plenty here who are able to answer "no" to all of the above, but it seems like that's not so likely to be the case, based on the general discussion around here.

Let me just mention right off, too, that I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and have had it since at least puberty. I was not aware of RLS symptoms at the time, but there are things that make me wonder if I didn't have it life-long in some form. And the psychiatrist who diagnosed me theorizes that I did have GAD from birth (there is some controversy between medical professionals about this.)

Take care, everybody.

Sara

[hismusic]

Do you have anxiety with RLS? It’s much like the “where were you when you found out Kennedy or John Lennon had died?” question.

I remember exactly where I was when I had my first full-blown anxiety attack. I was driving on Hwy 90 near New Orleans when suddenly I felt like I couldn’t breathe; no matter how big the breath I took was, I felt oxygen deprived. My heart was pounding and my chest hurt, I felt faint, and had a terrifying feeling of impending doom. “Oh, Lord!” I thought. “Please don’t add any more physical problems to the depression, arthritis, fibromyalgia and RLS I already have.” Too late, it was done.

It is also like the chicken and the egg question … what came first? Depression … fibromyalgia … RLS … arthritis? I don’t know if I can really say what the order was. It was a long time ago - and hard to recall when fibromyalgia brain-fog, lack of sleep and overlapping symptoms are all stirred in the pot to make “goofy gumbo” of my memory. Speaking of that…. I find it interesting that there are so many overlapping symptoms with RLS, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. I know you are looking at a specific symptom - anxiety, but I’m adding this info as lagniappe.

Symptom.....................and .............Who has it
Anxiety ........................................ RLS yes, CFS yes, FMS 48%

Depression ................................... RLS yes, CFS 65%, FMS 55%
Joint pain ...................................... RLS 72%, CFS ? FMS yes
Muscle Fatigue/pain ....................... RLS 72%, CFS 80%, FMS 81%
TMJ .............................................. RLS ?, CFS?, FMS 90%
Migraines/Headaches ..................... RLS yes, CFS 90%, FMS 53%
Cognitive/Memory problems............ RLS ?, CFS 90%, FMS 75%
Sleep disorders ............................. RLS 80%, CFS 70%, FMS 50+ %
(RLS - apnea, etc.)
Irritable Bowel Syndrome ............... RLS ?, CFS?, FMS 30%
Increased Environmental Sensitivity.. RLS yes, CFS 55%, FMS 50%
(sound, touch, temperature, etc)
Memory problems .......................... RLS yes, CFS 33%, FMS 75%
Swallowing difficulties ..................... RLS yes, CFS 32%, FMS 22%

FMS sufferers also having RLS #31%

The statistics were gathered at various medical sites online. If no specific percentage was given I just stated yes to indicate a common complaint for RLS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia.

This may have been stated in past post, but there were so many...I didn't read all of them! So, please forgive me if I am being redundant.

May God bless and heal you, or at least make it manageable.
Sherry

[cornelia]

Sara, this is a very good action of yours.
I have voted NO, because I have no symptoms at this moment. But.....that probably is only because, due to RLS, I lead, after having had to quit my job because of this disorder, an extremely quiet life. I never make appointments with people other than ad hoc, because I have found that this is the best way for me to survive with RLS and not to aggravate it unnecessarily. I don't like this sort of life at all, but I have accepted it.
But I KNOW that when I put myself under pressure to do things I have a tendency to anxiety. I know that because I have been close to it. My meds are working reasonable at the moment, but when they stop working I KNOW too that anxiety raises its head.

Corrie

[sardsy75]

We all know that stress and anxiety exacerbates our RLS. I had never had a stress/anxiety attack until February 2004 ... well AFTER I'd been diagnosed with RLS. The attack was so bad that both my blood pressure and core body temperature went south so fast it even had the paramedics wondering "What the??". Needless to say, that attack was the deciding factor in me giving up full-time work at age 28.

Until then I'd been the Financial Accountant overseeing four university campuses ... not an easy job by all means, a high stress job definitely, but still, a job I loved. In the end, it would have been a job that killed me!

It took nearly three months for me to recover from that. I knew I would go nuts staying at home doing nothing, so I started my own bookkeeping business in late April 2004 ... and for six months I had just ONE client. That was all I could handle! Then I added another client ... and another. I now have a dozen clients, which keep me busy enough every day of the week BUT they ALL know and understand my illness and condition and know that if I say "I have to down tools and go home" that's it, i'm outta there; and they've been wonderfully supportive! I have no stress in my job anymore (well, with the exception of tax time of course!), and that is the main objective!

Every time I have a change in meds ... as my body reacts to the new change and conditions the anxiety and stress go through the roof.

My marriage is not so crash hot at the moment, so that too has led to an extreme increase in anxiety and stress, and i've been having some horrible RLS attacks lately.

That's my two cent's worth on the subject ... hope it helps!

[Sara]

Thanks for the input, ladies. I thought that there was something to discuss here.

I did want to say, quickly, because I have heard this from other members, and because our Miss Nadia happened to mention it, too....

For the record, I personally really DON'T see any specific correlation between my stress/anxiety levels and my RLS symptoms. I think I may well be in the minority on this, but I thought it was interesting to note.

I can think of a couple of reasons why this would be true. Maybe NONE of them are the "real" reason. But I HAVE thought about this because it's been a topic we've discussed here on the forum, and in private, too.

My anxiety disorder was originally "diagnosed" as a "stress" disorder, so I realized in junior high I'd better learn to cope with stress better than I was coping. I'm no "champ", but I have 26 years of conscious trial-and-error under my belt.... which must count for SOMETHING!

It may be a factor, too, that my case of RLS is less-progressed that most here... and that I am not forced by its severity to take medications yet. I fully believe that as much as medications are a life-saver for many of us at some time in (or in some cases, throughout) our lives, almost all of them also bring side effects that, if not anxiety/depression or other related problems themselves, DO increase the overall "stress" on our bodies, brains and lives.

Maybe, really, the reason I don't see a correlation is because one part of living with chronic anxiety is getting accustomed to feeling uncomfortable (often 24/7) without totally freaking out. It's taught me to pace myself, borrow as little trouble as possible, and take each day (and often each moment) as it comes. So, in that spirit-- and considering that fatigue and illness are my only RECOGNIZED exacerbating factors of RLS symptoms, and those are factors that are not always easy to know the origin of, sometimes-- perhaps I sometimes "mis-assign" symptoms/causes between the two that maybe SHOULD indicate a "connection" between increases in anxiety and in RLS. But in my mind-frame, they just don't.

Our new member, Sherry (welcome!) was wise in pointing out that RLS, CFS, fibro, etc., have lots of "classic" symptoms in common. If you have bad enough chronic anxiety, over a long enough period of time, it can also cause some similar "systemic" havoc in your brain and body. I really wonder if medicine will find some solid link between some of these conditions... or might maybe end up theorizing what seems, to ultimate lay-person me, the 'easy' answer, that a general lack/misuse/sensitivity to brain and body chemicals could, in one body, maybe be responsible for mulitiple conditions.

Thanks for "playing along" on this one, ladies.

Sara

[Sara]

PS... Cornelia... I got to thinking about your comments, and have to say that I think you could have answered "yes" to a tendency or "no". Sounds like you do HAVE a tendency, but thankfully you seem to have found ways to keep your actual anxiety levels low.

I wondered about whether or not that's a 'good' thing, because I do the same, to some extent. I try to keep life simple, because when I don't, life's not too enjoyable. But it's a hard balance between reasonable lifestyle choices, and unhealthy "avoidance". Do you struggle with that, too?

And Nadia.... I've noticed in two different posts that you've said you're having a rough time. Marital strain is one of the most stressful situations on both our mental health/ sense of overall well-being and on our physical health. So sorry to hear this.

Sara

[becat]

Ok Sara,
I really thought about this one. I didn't vote for you, I don't have a good answer.
Yes, there are times when stress makes my RLS worse. However, during the the lasted impact of great stress, I went numb. Didn't take any medication for 5 days.( very close family member heard Major surgery is on the way, but no idea when yet). I just went numb.
Other periods of stress, yes, RLS is here and strong.
But as far as Panic attacks, yes I've had them, but they have normally happened on bridges......thankfully not while I was driving. Ok the whole car full of people had to sing to me. The other is tornados. I'm a desert mountain girl and Texas is trying to kill me when it rains. I have had two full blown acttacks during bad storms, reading the radar, and the alarms go off in my area. During one I actually got two 10 lb cats into a kitten size carrier and shoved them in the closet with me for 45 minutes. They were torked off for days.
There are other times I get paniced, but I seem to handle it well. Public things, meeting new people, talking in public, ......I get to where I don't want to breathe. But I force through it. And usually do fine.
So I may have tendencies toward the panic. But I don't think I do.
Stress does effect me when it comes to my family and friends. World events..........
I don't know........
No vote here unless you tell what your take on it is.
I think it, it being stress, effects me but the "fight or flight " in me is stronger than the panic most times.
Hugs to all.

[cornelia]

May-be I should have voted: yes, I have a tendency etc Sara, you're right.
And yes I have to keep life very simple, like you have to. If not, I'm in trouble. I never used to suffer from anxiety, it really started after RLS became severe. I think there really is a connection, like the researchers found out.
I know that I have to avoid all kinds of stress now, if possible. I have the feeling that if somewone would put me under pressure I would freak out.
I also try to live by the moment; it feels better and like Nadia says: take one step at a time.
But I must admit that life is so much less interesting now; not having a full social life etc.

Corrie

[jan3213]

It's Jan

I lost my original reply to you, Sara!!! Darn it, it was GOOD!! I'll try to recreate it!

Sara and I have had this conversation before, haven't we Sara? We decided that I probably have had GAD for quite some time. But, I never had a full blown panic attack until last fall. Then I had three in a row! Thought I was going to die!! Heart beating out of my chest, couldn't get enough air--hyperventilated. You know, I've always been high strung. My dear Becat says that when I TYPE LIKE THIS my voice gets higher. hahaha She's right!! Even though I can play piano in front of a 1,000 people (and have) and not be that nervous, I also didn't feel the least bit anxious before any of my panic attacks. I guess I didn't really know the difference between being nervous and anxious!

Who knows what comes first, the chicken or the egg. In my case, I think RLS came first--so I voted that I got GAD on the onset of RLS. Both of my daughters have panic attacks, but DON'T have full blown RLS yet. Just hints of it.

So, once again, I've added my two cents' worth. Good post Sara.

Love you
Jan

[Sara]

In a rush this morning-- hubby needs my help with some construction projects.

But did want to say one thing now, before I'll have a chance to really think through answers to some of the rest of the discussion.

From having chronic anxiety, I've needed to learn a lot about it. And I wanted to say that anxiety is a NORMAL phenomenon in reaction to certain stresses and stimuli. Becat, you'd be SILLY NOT to be afraid of tornadoes, IMO (of course, I'm a Californian, which might make a difference-- I have a fear of them when I'm in the midwest, too ) and serious family illness, of COURSE causes us excrutiating anxiety. That's what fight or flight is for, as I think you were the one who mentioned. We need that adrenaline rush to pull us through, make us strong, get us safe/away, etc.

Even things like job stress, it's NORMAL to feel stressed when you're in a stressful situation. Our Rubyslippers, I think, has experienced this, and I'm sure others of you, too. I worked in a relatively stressful career, but never was too bothered by it, because I felt competent and "in control" (like Jan with her music).

I think that as we discuss how RLS might affect anxiety/panic/depression, it's important to remember that fatigue can increase these conditions (or produce them in people with more 'average' reactions and brain chemistry). Lack of restful sleep and/or nightmares can leave you anxious next day, definitely (and even physically achey, so there's another "symptom" that's hard to pin down to any one syndrome or factor). Numerous medications can either create or exacerbate anxiety/panic/depression. (Jan, I have to wonder if your panic was medication-related/induced--- I am lucky I've not needed many medications, because even OTCs can increase my anxiety levels very uncomfortably. With prescriptions, I think I could be in some trouble.)

These "realities", I think, are part of the reason it's so hard --for us or the medical community-- to figure out the "chicken-or-the-egg" relationship.

But I also think that anyone with a chronic condition has "a right" (I guess I mean, a good "excuse") for feeling down, nervous, cranky, achey, etc., with or without a specific RLS/fibro/CFS- anxiety connection. Like RLS, if it's ngeatively impacting your life, you need to take it seriously and find ways to combat it, decrease it, etc. (If anyone out there needs more about anxiety-fighting techniques, I'm always available via PM for that, in greater detail.)

Thanks for taking time to thrash this out a bit with me. Hugs to all, and more later when I get a chance.

Sara

[jumpyowl]

I am late joining this discussion but better later than never.
I voted No, because depression was not included and it is different from panic attack or anxiety. Still, my wife was diagnosed with GAD a few years back, and she had panick attacks but not as severe as described by some of you.

When I was loosely diagnosed with MAJOR DEPRESSION I started to think that whatever it was or is it may have triggered RLS. I started to play with the medications (I am always tempted) and for a while I thought that I could use a dopamine agonist such as Mirapex or an antidepressant such as Wellbutrin for RLS and possible depression. It worked for awhile than I had a major RLS attack so I quickly returned to Maripex but at a half dose.

I had a continued stress in life for years before I diagnosed myself with RLS. I still think it was due to medication changes, stopping medications I have taken for over a decade.

By now I am fairly certain that I did not have major depression only a burn out from a family problem I could not solve. Still I am taking Wellbutrin to compete the month. However, I enjoy cognitive therapy and I try to be gentle with her. (the psychiatrist I managed to get on the defensive but I needed to change the medication from Remeron to Wellbutrin.)

I am going to post some words of wisdom on my new thread on depression for which I received a private request. Perhaps others are also interested.

Sorry Sara, I voted for no, but that is probably the closest to the truth.

Boy, I am getting oodles of materials for the continuation of the on-line survey.

BeCat, you should have warned me in Long Beach, CA. I could have triggered a panic attack by asking you to speak.

[Sara]

Jumpy, my friend--

Thanks for chiming in. I always enjoy reading your posts on any subject.

No apologies for the "no" vote. GOODNESS, I wish EVERYONE here could vote "no" with conviction. I wouldn't wish anxiety on my worst enemy.

But since I've heard a number of us mention anxiety and/or panic, it seems worthwhile to discuss it a bit, at least.

I was hopeful that people who did not want to post publically would at least vote, and I'm happy that it seems that some have, since last I checked I think I had more votes than people who wrote replies.

Take good care, Jumpy!

Sara

[becat]

Sara I voted No. I think I'm normal in most of my responses to life. Yup, tornados don't count.
Jumpy, You didn't ask anything wrong of me. I get nervous speaking in public, but I have a great response to it. I cry. As I did when I spoke for you. Honestly, I've spoken in public, seemingly, most of my life. I really did not mind. I'd never refuse to help you sweet Jumpy. It was a pleasure.
In all fairness, it was such an emotional thing. Meeting everyone that night and then to know that I was in a room filled with people, that were just like me in a RLS way. TOO much for my senses. For all of you that thought you were alone. GO to a Foundation meeting and sit in a room with others like yourself. It's a freaky thing at first. Here you've thought your the only one to feel this way, and... WHAMO........There's a room with people tapping toes, rocking, walking around......it's a kicker.
So Back to Miss Sara, I'm fragile and sensitive, but think I panic at the proper times...........LOL
Hugs.

[Sara]

Nicely put, Becat. On all counts.

Thanks for your input.

Sara

[Sara]

Hey, all, I see that we got some additional votes on the poll for this, so I'm bumping it for the benefit of our recent crop of new members.

Sara