Kratom effectiveness isssue

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Eternityroad
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:36 am

I have successfully been using Kratom for over three months. I use a teaspoon every three hours. I have all but eliminated Lortab from my "diet". But I do take a couple tabs two days a week to give the body a break form the Kratom so it doesn't build up too much of a resistance. This was working well until this week... During the day my one tsp of Kratom every three hours is working well. Sometimes I can go four hours...except at night...the tsp dose won't alleviate the symptoms and they start getting worse and I have the need to pace. I end up taking another dose within a half hour of the last dose. Then I sit jittering until the second dose kicks in and I can relax. It usually happens for the 3 am dose and the early evening dose at 7 or 8. But the rest of the time I am good. This only started going on in the last three or four days. I doubt it is the quality of the Kratom (the latest batch is darker in color) because then I would have problems all the time. Any advice or insight here would be great.

As far as the lortab is concerned I only told the doc that I am cutting back on the lortab to see what is the lowest dose I can use and still have relief. I am certain he would not approve of herbal remedy. He only issued me two scripts this time which I had filled to keep on hand in case the gov't makes Kratom a class 1 drug. (it is already banned in 5 states) But if this current issue with Kratom keeps up I might have to go back to mixing the meds.

Thank you.

Eternityroad

ViewsAskew
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Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby ViewsAskew » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:17 pm

Wish I had some advice - only commiseration :-).
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

jul2873
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Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby jul2873 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:08 pm

You might try using various strains of kratom instead of always the same one. I switch around between Red Borneo, Maeng Da, Bali, and Green kratom. I may try some others as well.

I've been using only kratom for almost five years now. I find that I have built up a tolerance (I started using very little) but, since I'm 73, I'm hoping that kratom sees me through for as long as I need it. I also take a tsp. for a dose now, and during the day sometimes use only one or two doses until evening. At night now, usually around 10 to 1 a.m. the RLS kicks in the strongest and I need more kratom. I've just decided not to worry about it, and to take what I need. I also walk around, and have even started keeping track of steps (which makes the walking more fun). I pretty much walk at least 10,000 steps every day now, and find I get less tired than I used to. I listen to podcasts on my iPhone.

The other thing I've found is that my need for kratom seems to change around on its own. Some nights I'll need two or even three tsps. in the middle of the night to calm my legs, while other nights the usual one tsp. does it. I've also decided to stop worrying about that. I can't control it, and I try hard to worry only about things I can control.

So my advice is to relax and take what you need. It seems pretty established that if you take too much you just throw it up. I do try to eat a little if I'm taking more than usual in the night: a little yogurt, a little soup--something like that. Oh, and I keep cut up watermelon to eat after I take a dose, as the kratom always makes me thirsty and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The watermelon does a great job with those two problems.

Eternityroad
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am

Thanks, Jul...I experimented this afternoon and used only a half teaspoon and it got me through 3 hours so cutting down during the day and increasing a bit overnight seems the thing to do and it will be cost-effective also. I have heard others talk about the various strains and will check out prices on the site I use. I have never had a problem with over-dose. I have a pretty strong constitution and have never taken more than 4 tsp at one time to no ill effect.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:18 am

have never taken more than 4 tsp at one time to no ill effect
I meant 4 grams or 2 teaspoons full.

jul2873
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby jul2873 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm

It sounds like you're doing fine.

You know, the other thing to keep in mind is that there is no quality control with kratom. One dose may have more of the active ingredients than another. I've just decided to trust my body, and if I don't feel better twenty minutes after taking a dose, I take another dose. I take kratom dissolved in orange juice, so twenty minutes is usually plenty of time for it to kick in.

Good luck to you.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:49 am

Thanks for the names of other strains. Interesting you should mention the differences in quality. My first two batches of Kratom were a bright green in color. The last two were a dark Green/brownish. I didn't think the latter were as potent and even wrote another member about it. The batch I got today was the bright-ish green like the first two. I am month ahead on Kratom because the company runs out of stock frequently. So when it comes time I will see if the bright green batch gives better relief. I take my kratom mixed with malt powder. If I am out and about I take it dry and chase it with water. I used to use chocolate drink powder but it had too much sugar.

jul2873
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby jul2873 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:44 am

I did some research on kratom, and read that it is not water soluable, but does dissolve in acid. That's why I put it in orange juice: it dissolves in about twenty minutes. I make up doses of kratom in those little plastic jello cups and keep a tray in the refrigerator, so some is ready if I need it.

I know there is sugar in orange juice, but there is also lots of potassium, which is supposed to help RLS. And I always brush my teeth after taking some. The funny thing is that my dentist is telling me that my teeth are better than he's seen them in years: must be all that brushing after the kratom!

A good place, I think, to get info on kratom is on Reddit. There is a very large community of kratom users on there--many very educated people who can answer all kinds of scientific questions. Just use the search box.

Ah, kratom has kicked in. Off to bed!

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 am

After chewing lots of peyote in the Sixties I can handle the taste of Kratom pretty well. Just need to mask it a bit on the way down. And lol the dental aspects. I get my K. at 25$/ 250 grams, thanx for the reddit recommend.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby ViewsAskew » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:21 pm

I mix my kratom with juice and psyllium fiber, lol, and make a gelatinous goo that I can cut into squares and pop into my mouth easily.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

neoleopard
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 am

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby neoleopard » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:01 am

I alternate strains to avoid building a tolerance and I get 5 hours of night time sleep relief with every 1.25 to 1.5 tsp dose (pending strain). I no longer suffer RLS during the day, ever. Gradually up your dose as everyone responds differently and with Kratom, less is more. it is related to coffee so too much can make you jittery. I have noticed a more calming of my nerves over time. However, I have changed my lifestyle with help from a holistic neurologist. I completed a heavy metal toxicity protocol over the past 3 years. I believe it is a cumulative effect that will only get better. Zero augmentation has been my reward. I had it systemically wicked bad before I cleared heavy metals out of my system as well as figuring out sources if exitotoxins in my food ( keep a journal) and optimizing hydration with CLEAN water (osmosis from whole foods is fabulous and cheap/consume half your body weight in ounces daily). Solid hydration is critical with any herb period. Also heard that vit c helps with absorption, but have not tried that yet. Better absorption also means lower doses are needed.

My big triggers are too much sugar/caffeine, zero alcohol; MSG throws me into a hardcore allergic response (swelling like a sausage/hyper heart) so I avoid at all costs period. MD ordered me to go gluten free (non celiac sensitivity to 2 wheat proteins plus there is roundup exposure in commercial American wheat); soy/corn free (GMO); Dairy free (it was hard but well worth it for my excellent body response without it). I only eat organic chicken/beef/bison and zero seafood because I had insanely high mercury levels. I am on year 3 and my body runs like a fine race car with blessed blessed freedom from RLS. symptoms completely stopped after a month on low dose kratom. It feels like a balm to soothe irritated nerves over time. I refuse to be a slave to pharma. Ropinerol messed up my bladder. Some say it is a coincidence. I don't think so. Been off pharma and replaced with Kratom for 2 months and i can feel my bladder more and more with every week that passes. How bad do you want to heal? I sleep like a baby for 4-5 hours a shot now. Deep effective sleep, the black circles and bags under my eyes are greatly diminished and I've recently started dreaming again after decades of 2-3 hours if mild rest with zero dreaming. I am so grateful!!!!! I mix kratom powder with almond milk and a organic cacao powder/maca. I keep my sugar intake to 30 grams per day.

RLS radiated all over in my body. At it's worst,I had that nasty feeling running up and down my entire spine. Other symptoms I had are loss of taste/smell; tinnitus, nausea, insomnia, cognitive problems, fatigue, loss of appetite, depression, and anxiety. All of it is greatly diminished. Starting kratom afforded me deep sleep. My taste/smell is also starting to return. If i can do it, so can you!

Home made organic cashew creme and store bought cashew ice cream are my dairy substitutes. Both taste amazing.

pinkynose
Posts: 73
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Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby pinkynose » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:11 am

I’ve been using Kratom for a little over a month and have had really good results so far. I joined the American Kratom Association which has good info and also alerted me to the possible ban (Schedule 1drug) by the FDA. I also belong to a few FB groups where I’ve gotten some good information and people’s experiences with the plant.

Orange juice is considered to be a potentiator for Kratom so i take it with OJ. I put my dose in a small container with a lid, mix with a little hot water to dissolve the powder and then mix again with oj. A small amount is energizing and a large amount is calming. They even have certain strains or blends that help with sleep. Changing strains is a good idea to keep from having an augment type of situation.

Reds are the most calming with the exception of Red Thai and Maeng Da. I usually like to mix in a green with a red during the day. I haven’t tried whites yet. My favorite is Yellow Borneo so far.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby Eternityroad » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:11 am

Neo and Pinky,
Thank you sooo much for these encouraging stories. Recently I cut down to 1/2 tsp per dose during the day and today I went 5 hours on one dose. So it is encouraging that in the long term I can be free of RLS. I believe in the the impotance of an optimal healthy lifestyle. I think it all contributes to our full recovery from RLS.

neoleopard
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 am

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby neoleopard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:11 pm

in the research i have done, it suggests a minimum 3 gram dose for medicinal effects. that is 1.5 tsps. I am having 5 hours of relief on that dose. However, I have also done a heavy metal detox and am on a very strict diet as per my holistic neurologist, so i am pretty sure it is a cumulative effect.

Dental amalgam removal was also a huge milestone for me, due to the mercury poisoning you get from them. I did one quadrant at a time and have one more to go.

My diet is as follows: Avoid alcohol and caffeine. Bittersweet chocolate is an occasional treat. NO SEAFOOD (mercury and plastic)

Gluten free (Round up is used to process American Wheat and I have sensitivity to two proteins in wheat that are non-celiac); No dairy, pork, corn or soy (GMO); only organic chicken, turkey, bison, and beef; 25-30 grams sugar daily, drink half my body weight in ounces (minimum) clean water (osmosis from whole foods grocery is great and cheap); to manage ketosis I limit carbs to 20%; 1/4 lb servings of meat protein 2x daily (breakfast and supper); moderate fruit (sugar), usually an apple or raspberries, but all the super green veg I want with each meal. I eat raw veg by making beautiful salads to munch on all day, and also love rolled oats (GF) to snack with raw cashews, pumpkin seeds, and almonds. I avoid high carb veg like beets and moderate high sugar like carrots. I blanch super greens in coconut oil with meals. I also use apples in cooking or eat raw with chicken or turkey. I found organic mango and eat it frozen for an extra special treat with a moderate scoop of cashew vanilla ice cream (sugar).

I also added these restrictions on my own based on research for said sleep:
No food period after 7-8 pm; no electronics after 9 pm. Read for an hour and down my kratom at 10 just before bed. I alternate strains to avoid a loss of tolerance/dependency. So far, so good! My favs are RMD, RB, GMD, GB, and also WMD, WB.


I take brain, adrenal, sleep and CNS support supplements 4x daily. It has taken 3 years to work out doses that work for me. If I wonder off my routine, my sleep suffers. I also try to get at least a mile walk in daily in the am and lunchtime. Exercise too late will have an opposite effect on me.

I tried to work a half day before I was ready and it wiped me out. I will try again in the future! Have been too weak in the past to even consider it.

I am off pharma for good ")

neoleopard
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 am

Re: Kratom effectiveness isssue

Postby neoleopard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:15 pm

yes, vit c helps absorption, when well hydrated. OJ is loaded with sugar though, so I take 100 mg by mouth with my kratom in almond milk which helps it stay mixed.


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