Potassium Citrate

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:56 am

badnights wrote:Rob:
I'm sorry you were upset about my merging the Topics. I should have pm'd you, and I thank you for suggesting it. I will make that my practice from now on. If you're curious about our policies here, please see the Forum rules (at the top of every page, the pink bar), which mention no duplicate posts. Every discussion board has different rules.

Please don't misunderstand my scepticism or pretend that when I say something is suggested, that I am claiming something is true. I haven't made a claim of anything, I have only listed points that suggest something might be amiss. (As a further note of caution, I will point out that in the sentence I just wrote, I used "suggest" and "might"; please don't misrepresent me by saying I'm claiming something.)

I made this statement: "(it's all about sensations, not muscle movements)" . By that, I am referring to the diagnostic criteria, which viewsaskew has listed and which refer only to sensations, not muscle movements. So I am correct to have made that a statement of fact.


I'm not upset about you merging the topics. I'm upset that this topic was moved from the "Prescription Medications" heading to the "Supplements" heading when 1) Potassium Citrate can only be obtained by prescription, 2) the moderator did not inform me of the move, and now 3) the same moderator piles on (unfounded) criticism of the related journal article, rendering the decision to move the post more suspect to questionable motivations.

I haven't "pretended" anything about what you've said. I've quoted you all along the way as I've responded to your criticisms. Perhaps you might try the same. Maybe quote me directly where I "pretended" something incorrectly about your statements?

Your statement "it's all about sensations, not muscle movements" is not a statement of fact, especially given that your pronoun has no antecedent. Life with RLS is very much about muscle movements for the majority of us, as PLMD/S afflicts an estimated 80% of RLS sufferers.

You also say " the criteria used to diagnose RLS/WED are not explained." In point of fact, the criteria are not only explained adequately in the introduction but also backed by cited references from other peer-reviewed articles on the subject.

There's a difference between healthy skepticism and belligerent nitpicking. Yours is mostly the latter.

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:23 am

yawny wrote:Rob, thank you so much for sharing so that others can learn from your experience and possibly have the same outcome. I’m fascinated by your results and of course I have more questions (thanks for your patience)!

Based on your reference to PLMD/S, I’m assuming you had PLMD/S and it has been alleviated by the 10mEq Potassium Citrate? Would you mind sharing a description of your pre-potassium symptoms? I have moderate to severe PLMD/S (determined by my sleep doctor & husband...who now sleeps in another room).

Also, I’m wondering if the timing of your 10mEq PCitrate is important…you mention dinner time and I’m wondering in what circumstances you’ve found it works best: away from sleep, with food, with other supplements? Or, if not, why dinnertime?

You mention that OTC supplements didn’t alleviate your symptoms...did you take the equivalent dosage to the prescribed potassium citrate? Do you think 10mEq PCitrate is absorbed different than its equivalent in OTC supplements? Is it a different form of potassium or maybe different fillers?


Yes, like most people with RLS, I also suffered from PLMD/S, rather badly. My symptoms were as follows:

From age 25-45, I suffered from moderate RLS and PLMD/S. I would begin to feel a need to kick or move my legs and an "electric" sensation in my legs (and occasionally my arms) in the evening if I was in a resting position. Then, when I would try to sleep, I would have difficulty falling asleep because of a fairly urgent need to kick. Some nights I would consequently stay up for several hours. Usually a night or two a week, my wife would report that I was kicking rhythmically (every 8 seconds, in fact) for some time while I was asleep.

Over several months in the last year, my condition turned more severe. I would suffer from an extreme electric feeling in my legs and need to kick at bedtime, causing me not to sleep at all many nights of the week, and limited sleep (1-3 hours) on other nights. After about 6 months of this severity, I began to suffer from many of the conditions related to sleep deprivation (tiredness, cognitive decline, emotionality, even hallucinations, etc.). I even had some mild suicidal ideations. It became impossible to sleep with my spouse (as you mention), and I was concerned for my career, which carries high cognitive demands and a low suitability for shift changes and absences. This was when I found the article and tried Potassium Citrate.

In terms of treatment, I have tried clonazepam, tramadol, gabapentin, magnesium OTC, potassium OTC, Vitamin D OTC, Iron OTC, b12 OTC, massage therapy, showering with alternating temperatures, a vibrating pad, and various types of yoga. None of these treatments resolved my RLS or PLMD/S for more than a week or two.

After one week of 10mEq of Potassium Citrate, my symptoms eased quite a bit, and I was back to sleeping most nights. By 45 days in, I had no symptoms of RLS or PLMD/S whatsoever. This has continued now for over 5 months with no perceived side-effects.

I should note that RLS is common on my mother's side. My grandmother, mother, uncle, cousins, and brother all share moderate RLS. Interestingly, my cousin who was put on Potassium Citrate for renal issues also no longer has RLS symptoms.

You ask about OTC potassium. I tried as much as 500mg, but it never seemed to work for me (which made me skeptical that Potassium Citrate would work). I do not know a lot about the difference between Citrate and normal OTC potassium, except that citrate comes in much higher dosages and is used for renal issues, kidney stones, etc. Because it is a high dose, it's recommended to take with meals, which is why I take it at dinner time. I don't know if it matters what time of day one takes it. 6pm has worked well for me, so I haven't changed anything.

Please feel free to ask away. Even though I'm lashing out at a couple of the mods, I'm actually a huge fan of a skeptical stance toward any claim, even and especially medical claims. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me or to expect results based on one peer-reviewed study of n=68. I wouldn't even normally come on a board like this and report my success. But if even one person out there with the kinds of severe, life-altering RLS I had is able to benefit from this, then it's worth it to me.

badnights
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby badnights » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:34 am

Rob

Your original posts were in the Just Joined forum and this forum. I moved the ones in Just Joined to this one. You did not post anything in Prescription.

Beth
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6532&p=61601#p61601
Discussion Board Moderator's posts don't reflect the RLS Foundation's opinion & are not medical advice

Rustsmith
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rustsmith » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:50 am

Rob, there are two sides to potassium citrate, potassium and citrate. As best I can tell from a quick read on the topic, urologists use potassium citrate primarily to introduce the citrate to the urine. Citrate is a powerful complexing agent that both dissolves and binds the calcium in kidney stones and it does this while also reducing the acidity of the urine. The potassium sort of just goes along for the ride. The alternative would be sodium citrate, but most people with kidney issues probably don't need that much more sodium.

On the other hand, most OTC potassium supplements are potassium gluconate, which has much less potassium. These supplements are usually intended to increase the potassium levels in the blood stream of those who have depleted potassium levels.

But, neither one of these should be used except under a doctor's supervision. Unlike elevated sodium levels, elevated potassium messes with the nervous system and can cause lead to dangerous cardiac irregularities. The body is much better able to tolerate a wide range of sodium levels than it is potassium, even though chemically sodium and potassium are very similar. Don't forget that it used to be that potassium chloride was one of the key ingredients three drug cocktail used in executions and the role of the potassium was to stop the heart.

So, it is working for you, then great. But please be careful.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:40 am

badnights wrote:Rob

Your original posts were in the Just Joined forum and this forum. I moved the ones in Just Joined to this one. You did not post anything in Prescription.

Beth


You might inquire with ViewsAskew about the matter.

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:43 am

Rustsmith wrote:Rob, there are two sides to potassium citrate, potassium and citrate. As best I can tell from a quick read on the topic, urologists use potassium citrate primarily to introduce the citrate to the urine. Citrate is a powerful complexing agent that both dissolves and binds the calcium in kidney stones and it does this while also reducing the acidity of the urine. The potassium sort of just goes along for the ride. The alternative would be sodium citrate, but most people with kidney issues probably don't need that much more sodium.

On the other hand, most OTC potassium supplements are potassium gluconate, which has much less potassium. These supplements are usually intended to increase the potassium levels in the blood stream of those who have depleted potassium levels.

But, neither one of these should be used except under a doctor's supervision. Unlike elevated sodium levels, elevated potassium messes with the nervous system and can cause lead to dangerous cardiac irregularities. The body is much better able to tolerate a wide range of sodium levels than it is potassium, even though chemically sodium and potassium are very similar. Don't forget that it used to be that potassium chloride was one of the key ingredients three drug cocktail used in executions and the role of the potassium was to stop the heart.

So, it is working for you, then great. But please be careful.


Good points, Rustssmith. I should note again that I take 10mEq of Potassium Citrate as prescribed by my doctor, and under his supervision. We have been checking my potassium levels and plan to check them continually over the next few months.

It's important for anyone reading this post to understand that this is a prescribed medication. That is why I requested the post to be moved to the "Prescribed Medication" section. Alas, to no avail.

yawny
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby yawny » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Rob wrote:Please feel free to ask away. Even though I'm lashing out at a couple of the mods, I'm actually a huge fan of a skeptical stance toward any claim, even and especially medical claims. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me or to expect results based on one peer-reviewed study of n=68. I wouldn't even normally come on a board like this and report my success. But if even one person out there with the kinds of severe, life-altering RLS I had is able to benefit from this, then it's worth it to me.


I’m hoping to be that one person. I’m sure many others are too. Lots of quiet, miserable folks that lurk here that will benefit from your experience and feedback. Many of us don’t care about studies and are willing to try anything that might work. Please keep us updated on your experience! :D

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:33 am

yawny wrote:
Rob wrote:Please feel free to ask away. Even though I'm lashing out at a couple of the mods, I'm actually a huge fan of a skeptical stance toward any claim, even and especially medical claims. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me or to expect results based on one peer-reviewed study of n=68. I wouldn't even normally come on a board like this and report my success. But if even one person out there with the kinds of severe, life-altering RLS I had is able to benefit from this, then it's worth it to me.


I’m hoping to be that one person. I’m sure many others are too. Lots of quiet, miserable folks that lurk here that will benefit from your experience and feedback. Many of us don’t care about studies and are willing to try anything that might work. Please keep us updated on your experience! :D


Yawny -- I sincerely hope this works for you. I recommend getting your potassium levels checked before you start taking it, and then check in with your doctor about your having your levels monitored. My plan is to check those levels every 3 months.

Be patient. While I started feeling some effects after just a week or so, it really took about 6 weeks before my symptoms were gone.

Keep me updated on your progress! I'm wishing you all the best for some restful sleep!

JimmyLegs44
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby JimmyLegs44 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:26 pm

Rob wrote:Potassium Citrate can only be obtained by prescription

I just stumbled across this topic and coincidentally I just finished a 2 month trial on Potassium Citrate. I found out about it on YouTube. I'm off all prescriptions now and with my doctor's blessing, I'm currently trying different natural products/supplements for 1-3 months to see if I can find something that helps. Anyway, I got mine off Amazon. Are you sure you need a doctor's prescription? Are you aware of difference between the prescribed product and OTC?

Unfortunately, I noticed no improvement in my symptoms and therefore I'm no longer taking it.
The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:26 pm

JimmyLegs44 wrote:
Rob wrote:Potassium Citrate can only be obtained by prescription

I just stumbled across this topic and coincidentally I just finished a 2 month trial on Potassium Citrate. I found out about it on YouTube. I'm off all prescriptions now and with my doctor's blessing, I'm currently trying different natural products/supplements for 1-3 months to see if I can find something that helps. Anyway, I got mine off Amazon. Are you sure you need a doctor's prescription? Are you aware of difference between the prescribed product and OTC?

Unfortunately, I noticed no improvement in my symptoms and therefore I'm no longer taking it.


Jimmy -- Hey there. Yes, you can get lower doses of potassium citrate on Amazon. I personally wouldn't take potassium supplements without the recommendation and supervision of a doctor. You were probably taking a considerably lower dosage than the 10mEq I'm taking daily. I'm sorry it didn't work for you!

Just FYI -- the OTC potassium comes in 99mg pills. You'd have to take 7.5 of those to get the 750mg that is equivalent to the10mEq dose you get with a prescription pill. For further information, see https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/archives/fdaDrugInfo.cfm?archiveid=16484

yawny
Posts: 224
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby yawny » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:33 am

JimmyLegs44 wrote:I just stumbled across this topic and coincidentally I just finished a 2 month trial on Potassium Citrate. I found out about it on YouTube...


By chance, can you share the link to that YouTube video or videos? Thanks!

Also, what dosage of Potassium Citrate did you take during your trial?
Last edited by yawny on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

yawny
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby yawny » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:36 am

Rob, can you clarify...are you taking Citrate or Chloride? The link you provided refers to Chloride.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby ViewsAskew » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:21 am

Rob wrote:
badnights wrote:Rob

Your original posts were in the Just Joined forum and this forum. I moved the ones in Just Joined to this one. You did not post anything in Prescription.

Beth


You might inquire with ViewsAskew about the matter.


I did move it and Rob and I PMed about it. It is not a pharmaceutical substance. Other supplements require a prescription - but they are supplements, not pharmaceutical substances, so they are also discussed here.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Rob
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:44 pm

yawny wrote:Rob, can you clarify...are you taking Citrate or Chloride? The link you provided refers to Chloride.
''

Yawny -- sorry about that. Here's the link to the 10mEq pill of potassium citrate (not chloride) that I take: https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=2215dc1d-0b5a-469e-9b51-4d7480a51078

JimmyLegs44
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Potassium Citrate

Postby JimmyLegs44 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:57 am

yawny wrote:By chance, can you share the link to that YouTube video or videos? Thanks!

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAoq14NlDQc
After watching the video again, I had to laugh when he says RLS is "very easy to fix" :shock: .

yawny wrote:Also, what dosage of Potassium Citrate did you take during your trial?

I took approx. 3,000 mg/day. My understanding is the recommended daily intake is 4,700 mg/day. I bought 500 grams of Potassium Citrate Powder. The reviews on Amazon indicated 1 tsp equated to approx. 2,200 mg of Potassium. I was aware of the risks of taking too much Potassium, so to be sure I bought a digital scale, and my measurements came out the the same. I took 1/2 tsp 3x/day.
The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost


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