Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
pamhb
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 am
Location: Canada

Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby pamhb » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 pm

A number of months ago I started on a journey to figure out my food triggers. After much trial and error, I believe that my food triggers fall largely into the category of foods which are high in histamines/tyramines (or which stimulate the production of histamine, or block the systems that regulate histamine).

It started with a friend who is a toxicologist, who noted that my then identified food triggers were similar to those which can trigger migraine headaches. Foods that can cause migraine headaches are foods that are high in tyramine, histamine, sulphites and nitrates. I don't react to sulphites or nitrates; I do react to foods that are high in histamines or tyramines. This makes sense, as both histamines and tyramines can affect the dopamine system, while sulphites and nitrates don't.

One of the best lists that I have found for histamine/tyramine foods is the Histamine Food Compatability List published by the Swiss Interest Group for Histamine Intolerance. https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/do ... hCateg.pdf

This list was the most convincing evidence for me -- I had looked at the other diets (oxylate, FODMAP, Wahl), and each of these diets had foods which I should have been able to tolerate, but don't. I can't eat any of the dairy permitted by the oxylate diet, I can't eat any of the fish permitted by the FODMAP or Wahl diet. The Swiss Interest Group List was the only list to capture all of the foods which I had already identified as triggers. (Note, however, that among histamine sufferers, there is considered to be substantial overlap between histamine and oxylates in particular). In using this list, it's important to read the notes -- some foods are given a "0" listing but the notes will state that some people will in fact have a reaction (which is often the case with me).

One of the best websites that I use for suggestions on how to manage life with histamine intolerance is Healing Histamine (https://healinghistamine.com). The author is this site is a health journalist who is histamine intolerant, and so is packed with advice that appears to be backed by good science. I have certainly found her advice to be useful. Note though that most histamine sufferers have a lot of gut symptoms which an RLS sufferer may not, so some of the advice may not be applicable. Anti-histamines often help histamine sufferers with gut symptoms; I find they don't help my RLS symptoms. (I suspect it has to do with the particular receptors involved). I also find that some of the foods which are universally regarded as high histamine, such as tomatoes and spinach, are find for me to eat, perhaps because they are high in other chemicals such as nitrates, which have other health benefits.

I am most sensitive to chemical additives -- for example, I can't tolerate most dairy substitutes such as soy milk, almond milk, and coconut milk, mostly because of the additives and not necessarily because of the base product itself. I also find that even changing vitamin brands or formulations can trigger a reaction in me, as a result of the additives to vitamin products.

I now have a new relationship with my food -- not always comfortable, but certainly a lot of respect!

ViewsAskew
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Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby ViewsAskew » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 pm

Hope it continues to work for you.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

pamhb
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 am
Location: Canada

Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby pamhb » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:51 pm

Often when I am looking for information about various chemical compounds and their effect on the dopamine system, I look to research that is taking place in the field of Parkinson's Disease (PD). Here is an excerpt from the PubMed article, "Histamine: a new immunomodulatory player in the neuron-glia crosstalk" (2014) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4012198/

"Herein we showed, for the first time, that histamine promotes the release of toxic inflammatory factors, including NO, by microglial cells, which can be capable of damaging dopaminergic neurons. With this work we open a new perspective for the therapeutic use of histamine and histamine receptor antagonists to treat or ameliorate inflammation-associated processes of neurodegenerative diseases, like those seen in PD."

It is, of course, a complicated subject, as the older generation of anti-histamines can make RLS symptoms worse rather than better. It is, however, an intriguing area of research....

ViewsAskew
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Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby ViewsAskew » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:46 pm

Definitely interesting.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

badnights
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Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby badnights » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:32 pm

pamhb when you have a reaction to a certain food, does it occur within a few hours, or same day? Is it that obvious? Or is it more of a statistical thing, with bad WED/RLS symptoms happening more often when you eat it than when you do not?

I ask because I haven't identified ANY dietary triggers, even coffee, that consistently cause worsened symptoms the same day. I am fairly certain that coffee and certain forms of alcohol do it sometimes, and that over time, gluten +/- dairy will do it but that took months to figure out.
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6532&p=61601#p61601
Discussion Board Moderator's posts don't reflect the RLS Foundation's opinion & are not medical advice

pamhb
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 am
Location: Canada

Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby pamhb » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:15 am

Beth -- For me, it's a same night kind of thing. I have severe refractory RLS. My base line, when all is going well, is that: (a) I have no day time symptoms,and (b) I will wake 3 times a night, with relatively minor RLS symptoms that settle fairly quickly. (My base line includes taking oxycodone at night before bed). When I eat a trigger food, then (a) I may or may not experience evening symptoms starting at around 5:00 pm , and (2) I will experience either more intense symptoms at night, or milder symptoms which wake me 5 or 6 times a night and are more difficult to settle. If the symptoms have been very bad, then they might persist at night for a couple of nights (particularly those that are drug related), otherwise they are gone within a single night.

To test successfully, you need to know your "safe" foods. When I started all this, I believed that far more foods were safe for me than actually were.
It led to confusing results. I now have certain very safe foods that will return me to base line, and act as a comparison between normal and break through symptoms. Oatmeal with a bit of sugar and an unripe banana for breakfast. Chicken and rice with a small leafy green salad dressed with olive oil for lunch. Chicken and rice and a salad dressed with olive oil for supper. Apples and green grapes as a snack. Tulsi tea and decaffeinated coffee as beverages. Water. Vitamins in the hard tablet form, and never in the granulated capsule form. One particular brand of probiotics. Nothing that was a prepackaged product with any kind of additives. No lemon juice or vinegar in my olive oil salad dressing. No nuts. No wheat products. No changes in medication.

For me, the tip off that food was involved was that I was having random good nights mixed in with a number of bad nights. There was nothing that had changed about my days other than the food I was eating. Life can still be frustrating -- it's not meant to be lived eating chicken and rice! But I certainly feel like I have a bit more control now...

badnights
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Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby badnights » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:24 am

I don't know if I'm relieved or not! It's nice to know that you figured it out without doing long-term analyses of hundreds of different foods. But it's disappointing, in a way, to know that I don't have such immediate reactions to any food, and will likely therefore never figure out if any other foods are triggers. It took a months-long experiment to tell me to avoid gluten and dairy and eat lots of vegetables. And even then, I don't know if maybe I can add dairy back in? Reduce the veg a bit? I don't want to try, because it would take 3 months to find out it was a bad idea and another 3 to get back where I was!

Thanks for explaining how it worked with you, it's useful information for all of us.
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6532&p=61601#p61601
Discussion Board Moderator's posts don't reflect the RLS Foundation's opinion & are not medical advice

ViewsAskew
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Posts: 15214
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Histamine/Tyramine Food Triggers

Postby ViewsAskew » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:43 am

I was reading this blog about gut health recently and also read a study about weight loss. Both were about gut bacteria. In the weight loss study, they found that people with certain types of bacteria lost less weight - the hypothesis is that the different bacteria are much more efficient. The blog suggested that probiotics could eliminate sugar cravings.

If you needed to actually change the gut biome to see changes - for example, you, Beth - it would take months. If you needed to change a histamine reaction, you would likely tell immediately. Both related to food, but very different processes and reasons.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.


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