New Kratom User - when to take

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Eternityroad
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Eternityroad » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:37 am

Kratom has been a real boon to me. I was on opioids for 8 years before I discovered Kratom. Been on Kratom for over two years. They have banned it in five states already so I have a bit of concern as to how long I can still obtain it. Now they are trying to ban vaping. I quit smoking nine years ago with the aid of vaping. Funny how they try to ban products that show real worth in helping a person to get better. And Kratom is a natural agent!I I never told my doctor I use Kratom. The mainstream medical profession is skeptical of any panacea that doesn't come out of a bottle.

Polar Bear
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Polar Bear » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:49 am

*Eternityroad* i am a very new user of Kratom. I am successfully weaning off ropinerole and am now in the last stages. in the last week or so I have introduced kratom to so far replace one of my remaining doses of ropinerole.

Like you my doctor is unaware I'm using it. It is illegal where I live but I'm willing to take a risk as I'm desperate to get off the ropinerole. It was ordered on line and delivered without issue.
Betty
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Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

Eternityroad
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Eternityroad » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:56 am

It is good you can get it online despite it being banned in your state. Ropinerol was not effective with me. It quit working after two weeks.

Icantsleep
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Icantsleep » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:52 am

brossman wrote:Can kratom be taken with Ultram (Tramadol)? After failing many drug regimens of DAs, sleeping pills, gabapentin, neurontin, and Lyrica, my doctor started me on 50 mg Ultram. I just increased it to 100 mg/day but am still waking 2-4 hours after taking it (and sometimes waking again 2 hours later) with "have to move" symptoms. Vaping CBD seems to help some, but I don't love vaping. Would kratom be a good addition, or should it not be taken with tramadol? Does it make you sleepy?


This is me , except I vape THC for the last 2.5 years and take 0.75 mg clonazepam in the middle of the night (I have taken clonazepam for 26 years )

I am now interested in Kratom to either add to or replace tramadol
I have just switched to tramadol 100mg ER and it is certainly not enough

Rustsmith
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Rustsmith » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:09 am

I was initially put on 100mg Tramadol ER last year. It helped the need to move, but it wasn't enough, especially since I was switching from methadone. Because I had 100mg tablets, I tried taking 200mg and that is what I needed. My doctor agreed to leave me on 200mg Tramadol ER. I should also add that I have always experienced opioid-induced insomnia. So I take my meds at lunchtime instead of bedtime. That allows the insomnia side effect to wear off in time for me to go to bed, which is when I take 600 to 900mg of gabapentin and a 5mg THC edible to help me with sleep.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Icantsleep
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Icantsleep » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:20 am

https://www.canadakratomstore.com/produ ... k-5-x-1oz/

Any suggestions for the 5 samples ?

Steve : glad tramadol works for you all day and night
I’m not sure if I’d handle that much gabapentin ... I felt like 200mg was too much a few years ago
Not ruling it out though

Icantsleep
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Icantsleep » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:29 am

.... seems after a bit of research most of us would benefit from Red strains for nighttime relief
Then yellow which is a mix, followed by green, which are stimulating strains

Eternityroad
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Eternityroad » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:42 am

I have been using Red Vein for over two years to good effect. One time, though, the batch wasn't very pure for some reason and I had to up my doses but all-in-all I have had great success with it. I use red vein throughout the day though I don't need much in the mornings through mid-afternoons. I take a large dose before bed and usually re-up with 1/4 tsp. in the middle of the night. But every body is different.

Icantsleep
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Icantsleep » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:57 am

Eternityroad wrote:I have been using Red Vein for over two years to good effect. One time, though, the batch wasn't very pure for some reason and I had to up my doses but all-in-all I have had great success with it. I use red vein throughout the day though I don't need much in the mornings through mid-afternoons. I take a large dose before bed and usually re-up with 1/4 tsp. in the middle of the night. But every body is different.


I went with another merchant and got 25g each of red maeng da, red Sumatra , red Borneo , and red Bali
$41 CAD all in with $10 of that going to express shipping .

Hoping it’s at my door by Monday at the latest
(Although I hope I get it at all lol )

stjohnh
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby stjohnh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:47 pm

Be aware that the amount of active chemicals in Kratom varies depending on how mature the leaves are, amount of water the tree gets, how hot or cold the growing location is and season. So there is going to be some natural variation from lot to lot, even from a reputable vendor. If you get a "weak" batch, it doesn't usually mean the batch was "impure."
Blessings,
Holland

Eternityroad
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Eternityroad » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Perhaps "impure" was a poor choice of words. I didn't mean "tainted" in any way. Just not as strong as I was accustomed. I can now tell how strong the batch is from the color of the batch. If it is a bright green and almost shiny then it is a strong batch. If it is a brownish-green then I have got a weaker batch and have to increase dosage. I have been getting from the same vendor for over a year so my determinations are vendor-specific and based on my own experience.

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SquirmingSusan
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby SquirmingSusan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:37 am

It actually depends on the person as far as which strains will work the best. I have issues with some of the stronger reds, like hulu or wild red. They make me weak and shaky, and sometimes act as a stimulant for me. For me, some of the non-energetic greens are the best, like green Bali or green elephant. I recently bought some gold Bali, and it's the best strain yet for RLS.

If you haven't checked out Herbal RVA yet, I highly recommend them. I think they have the best prices out there, have high quality kratom, and their service is great. You need to search for "speciosa" like at the SoCal site (they're also a good vendor).
Susan

Icantsleep
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Icantsleep » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:11 am

So I actually told my family doctor I have taken, and plan to take more kratom

First to get off of tramadol, then potentially as the first line in rls treatment
He had no problem with this, and also prescribed me low dose clonidine for the tramadol withdrawal .

I then told the 2 pharmacists the exact same thing while they filled the clonidine, and they were totally ok with me taking kratom

I'm unsure how much more kratom / clonidine / THC / clonazepam I'll take during this process , but it's nice to have options
(All are basically a per use basis except maybe one early morning clonidine dose)

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Neco
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Neco » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:31 am

I haven't posted here in a very long time, but I've been on Kratom for about half a year now. I'm doing a lot better in terms of quality-of-life than I was doing on the regiment of Gabapentin + Requip I had been taking. I still occasionally throw some gabapentin on top for breakthrough and it takes the edge off. I was in a lot of chronic achy pain where even if my RLS was mostly controlled I still could not even sit at a computer without doing extremely attention-focused tasks (so casual games were out, etc) to take my mind off things and could only stand it an hour or two at a time... Kratom turned that around very quick.


I'll just throw in my 2 cents of general knowledge, as someone who has an extensive substance abuse history. If you've had problems with building up tolerance with opioids, you may find the same problem occurs with Kratom. In my case I partake in its recreational effects as well as medicinal relief its provides for my RLS (I simply don't feel normal unless I am chemically altered) . I've been up and down the ladder for opiods on everything from codein to methadone, and I'm fairly confident that a stable dose for bad RLS sits between 4 - 6 grams daily on average. 3 grams would be an admirable goal but lets not kid ourselves - almost nobody who has found this forum is here because their RLS is run-of-the-mill; it tends to be severe. That being said, I would be very careful about exceeding 6 grams per day, just from the standpoint of developing a habit. I've probably peaked up around 8 - 10 grams myself but saw little benefit in terms of getting there via booster doses. Quality of your supply also will probably play a role in this. always aim low.

It's somewhat a pain for me as Kratom is illegal in Wisconsin currently (we're trying to change that), and I'm forced to pay extortionate prices from local vendors in Illinois (started out in Chicago since I know someone there, but been moving closer to the border each trip as they open new locations). Those of you who can buy online are blessed. You can get a kilo for under $100; it costs me $600 in capsule form. lol

If you want to get the most out of your kratom, try different strains to see what you can tolerate, and come up with a rotation. I try to never take the same strain or primary color, more than one day in a row.. I have 9 types on hand currently, and rotate them based on primary color. So it's always Green/Red/White. There isn't really any magic here other than the fact due to natural variance in the alkaloids depending on drying time and strain, you are basically operating on a "floating" blood serum level. I used to do this with methadone quite successfully (some days I took 15mg, some days 20mg, it balances out over time without jacking up your tolerance). I'd try to avoid dosing more than 3x a day but that is just me. I have a physically active job so usually I can get away with between 500mg - 1 gram for the entire work day, and then only need to bulk up once I get home and start to relax into the evening.

On the subject of weather or not it's an opioid; even if it technically isn't you should still treat it like one. Some of the alkaloids in kratom bind to at least two opioid receptor sites, and I can attest from personal experience you can get quite a nice buzz going if you take too much on accident/deliberately, etc. I'm talking oxycodone levels of "hmmm.... nice". So don't play around with this stuff.

A little anecdotal info also. This year I added Requip (0.250mg) to my gabapentin regimen, and before I transitioned to taking kratom almost exclusively, I noticed little ticks/seizure like behavior when I added the kratom. This may be a consequence of my personal chemistry because I have a history of tramadol-incuded seizures and have never been the same since, but I thought I would mention it. I very rarely see this behavior anymore when it is just kratom and the occasional gabapentin dose (300mg or less).


Years ago if you were to ask me what to give someone with severe RLS I would have told you to fight for opiates. However at this point in time, I would recommend kratom first as long as you are able to legally obtain it and have the mental faculties to formulate your own doses/administration methods.

The only physical side effect I have seen so far, has been slightly blurry vision (text) and constipation. Back when I was on prescription opiods I had numerous problems develop, from severe IBS to severe acid reflux. Those went away for the most part once I was taken off narcotics completely, and so far since taking the kratom they have not returned in any significant way. I'm hoping that holds true at 1 year and beyond.

I don't have a set dosing time, because my schedule is very fluid. If I'm up early in the AM and not working until the afternoon I might try skirting by on 1gram, if its my day off I'll start with 2g and if needed redose in the middle of the afternoon, or try to wait until night to take another 2 - 3 grams.

edit: Also for those who may not be aware, Kratom has effects which are dose-dependent. When taken in lower doses it acts more like a stimulant, while in higher doses it will act more like a sedative. So if you find yourself unable to "wind down" or something, and its interfering with your sleep and you are on a relatively low dose, this may be why.


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