New Kratom User - when to take

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
stjohnh
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby stjohnh » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:09 pm

jul2873 wrote:I've taken kratom for almost seven years, for RLS. It's really all I've taken. And it has worked very well until about a year ago when I started developing issues with tolerance. ...I'm trying to figure out what to do now. ....


Kratom is not a very strong opioid (or opioid like) drug. Your RLS may have just progressed to the point where you need a stronger opioid on a regular basis. Also, have you checked into iron?

RLS is caused by BID (Brain Iron Deficiency). Many people with RLS can have their symptoms markedly reduced or even eliminated with IV Iron treatments. This is the only treatment that gets at the basis for RLS (low brain iron). It has almost no side effects. The International Restless Legs Syndrome Study Group has elevated IV Iron treatment to first line therapy. This means that IV Iron is one of the first treatments doctors should try, not one of the last (as has been done for many years). If you can get your doc to prescribe IV Iron treatment, that is the way you should go. Unfortunately this is fairly new information and most docs, even those that frequently treat RLS, are not aware of it. Note that the blood test doctors usually do to check for low iron (ferritin test) only checks for low BLOOD iron, there is no test available for checking for low BRAIN iron. Oral iron usually doesn't provide a high enough blood level increase to help, folks need IV Iron infusions. Here is a link to the guidelines:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
Blessings,
Holland

QyX
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby QyX » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:50 pm

jul2873 wrote:I've taken kratom for almost seven years, for RLS. It's really all I've taken. And it has worked very well until about a year ago when I started developing issues with tolerance. When I first started taking it, 1/2 tsp. was plenty, and it stayed enough for a couple of years. Now I'm up to 2 tsp. for most of the time, but the early evening hours, when it's at its worst, that no longer works, and I end up taken 3-6 tsps. I'm trying to figure out what to do now. My primary care, who I chat with frequently about this, gave me a bottle of oxy, which I use for emergencies, like long plane rides. And today, since I'm visiting my son in California where pot is legal, I just bought some edibles. If they help, I'll ask my primary care if she can arrange for me to get pot in PA, where legal medical marijuana is available. Until the issues with tolerance developed, kratom was the best. One tip is to let it dissolve in something acidic, like orange or grapefruit juice, as it is not water soluable but does dissolve in acid.


It is quite possible that medical Marijuana will help you with your Kratom tolerance issues.

I was able to cut my opioid dose by about 1/3 since I started using medical Marijuana. Additionally, I was not only able to cut my dose but each dose also seems to work longer and is more efficient.

Opioid tolerance is something I still manage carefully by rotating between 3 different opioids (Morphine, Oxycodone and Hydromorphone).

Additionally you also need to consider that your RLS has gotten worse. My RLS was worsening each year a little bit but lately the use of medical Marijuana has reverted this trend for me.

Bridgercan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Bridgercan » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:57 am

Given my not-so-long use of kratom, I nonetheless have found out how much the “strength” of a strain or batch can vary. For most of the year+ I’ve been taking kratom, I’ve used red bornea from the same vendor. Until recently, 2-3 grams taken 1.5 hours before bed was just right for my RLS symptoms (in addition to 2mg Neupro patch and 10mg OxyContin). However some batches have been on the weak side, but the last batch turned out to be super potent: I could barely get out of bed the next morning I felt so drugged. I’ve had to dial back the dosage to 1.25 to 1.5g, or about half of what I had been taking.

Regardless, I’m thankful I’ve found kratom and that’s is legal where I live. Both my RLS specialist and my internist are ok with it and ask thoughtful questions about it. It allows me to keep oxy at the smallest dose available. If I had to take 20mg of oxy the emotional, mental, and physical hangover the next morning would be just too much to cope with. At that dosage, that drug is just soul destroying to me. I count my blessings instead of sheep! :D

pinkynose
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby pinkynose » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:15 pm

About 4 years ago I used Kratom to get off opioids and have been on it ever since. I did it slowly and it was not a difficult detox. I also went off gabapentin, which for me was more difficult. Because of all the effort made by the FDA to ban Kratom and a number of cities actually banning it I have to occasionally take opioids when I travel to keep the amount of kratom I bring at a minimum.

My suggestion for taking Kratom is 1)put your dose in in a small container that has a lid; 2)add a small amount of warm water; 3)shake well to mix; 4)add OJ or Grapefruit Juice; 5)mix well and drink. It really isn't bad that way. If you want a treat repeat the 1st 3 steps and then add "Promised Land Midnight Chocolate Milk." It is actually delicious ;) Capsules are great especially for travel but they take longer to work. Oblate disks work quickly but I can't always fit my dose in them.

Unfortunately all Kratom keeps me up, even the sleepy reds like Borneo or the fermented reds which are known for there sedative abilities. Although generally reds are best for nighttime, my understanding is a small amount of any color strain is energetic while a larger amount makes you sleepy. There are some energetic reds like red thai that don't fit the mold.

To Bridgercan: Yes, even the exact same strain from the exact same vendor can and does vary from one order to the next. It is dependent on so many things out of the farmers control like weather and it can be very frustrating.

Bridgercan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Bridgercan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:18 am

pinkynose wrote:Unfortunately all Kratom keeps me up, even the sleepy reds like Borneo or the fermented reds which are known for there sedative abilities.


That is too bad; it’s one of the reasons I like taking Kratom. But anything other than red Borneo or Bali is like too much caffeine: makes me jittery and edgy, just awful.

Although generally reds are best for nighttime, my understanding is a small amount of any color strain is energetic while a larger amount makes you sleepy. There are some energetic reds like red thai that don't fit the mold.


I have discovered this out the hard way as well.


To Bridgercan: Yes, even the exact same strain from the exact same vendor can and does vary from one order to the next. It is dependent on so many things out of the farmers control like weather and it can be very frustrating.


Yes, so it is with trepidation that I’ll be opening a new batch tomorrow night—strong? weak? Will just have to find out. And you’re right about dosages: too little can be stimulating, and too much, for me at least, is just too much sedation.


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