New Kratom User - when to take

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
brossman
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New Kratom User - when to take

Postby brossman » Thu May 30, 2019 8:08 pm

I have some red vein borneo in capsules. I've read elsewhere that most people take between 5-10 g/day (I think that's what I read). But when do you take it? Just at night? During the day at all?
Thanks,
Bev

stjohnh
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Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby stjohnh » Fri May 31, 2019 1:29 am

5 to 10 grams a day would be a high dose for a person with RLS. I don't take it anymore, I don't need to after my iron infusions. When I was taking it I was taking it in conjunction with low doses of other medicines. I took 720 mg 90 minutes before bedtime and an additional 360 mg about midnight. If you haven't tried it, Kratom is extremely bitter. I put it in capsules to make it easier to swallow.

If you're using Kratom alone, you will likely need considerably higher doses, however I don't think it should be above 5 grams per day.
Blessings,
Holland

Bridgercan
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Bridgercan » Fri May 31, 2019 5:56 am

When I took kratom, I dosed 1-1.5 hours before bed. When I was in augmentation agony last year after 10 years of pramixepole, I ramped up to 3-4 grams that I put in capsules. That dose allowed me as I quit pramixepole and got out of augmentation to cut OxyContin from hit-by-a-bus 20mg to a more manageable 10mg. I was partial to red vein Borneo as being the mellowest strain I tried. The highest dose I took was 5mg, I think anything more would’ve left me in a heap drooling!

Currently a Neupro patch/Horizant ER/2.5mg Oxy regimen keeps my symptoms mild most nights. Good luck!

legsbestill
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Location: Dublin Ireland

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby legsbestill » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:30 pm

It does require some trial and error as it’s obviously optimal to take the minimum dose. It can be quite individual also. I would start low - one tablet about 30 mins before bed - and gradually work up. With rls it is better to address symptoms before they emerge. So once you know the dose that works for you take it at least 30 mins before symptoms tend to start (for most sufferers this is before they go to bed). Good luck. I found the effects of Kratom only last for about 4 hours so that it’s sometimes necessary to take a second dose through the night. It may just be me but I tend to find Kratom more effective if I take it dissolved in grapefruit juice than in capsule form.

chuas2
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby chuas2 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Hi, I haven't used kratom before, but since I've been cut off my pain meds and my GP refuses to prescribe anything except ropinerole, I'm trying it.
If you have powder, how much should you measure?

Polar Bear
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Polar Bear » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:17 pm

chuas2 - your GP isn't up to speed with the RLS medications when refusing to prescribe anything except ropinerole. The anti seizure medications are now considered worth trying first and even my own GP is aware of this and would not prescribe Ropinerole as first line. Changed days of course from a few years ago.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

chuas2
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby chuas2 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:19 pm

I'm not very good at educating doctors...Not sure why, but I've always been a target for bullies. My doctors don't take me seriously, and are borderline abusive. I tried to talk my GP into gabapentin encarbil, and she arrogantly told me I don't know what I'm talking about, and it's the same as regular gabapentin. Been to two pain medicine doctors, one of whom "fired" me after I complained to them that indeed I did have withdrawal symptoms when they yanked 60 mg ms contin t.i.d., and hydromorphone t.i.d. Just cut me off, looked at me and said "you're not going to have withdrawal symptoms." I spent the next two weeks in agony. I told them about it, and they said I was no longer welcome at their clinic. Now I have a pain med "doc" who told me I don't need two hydrocone and .25 mg of ms contin for back pain (arthritis and slipped disc), arthritic knots, or RLS. I'm through...

Polar Bear
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Polar Bear » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:51 pm

Regarding educating doctors in particular with regard to RLS have you done research on this discussion board, looked at the various documents listed in the Just Joined - A Good Place to Start Managing RLS/WED.
Also research on the RLS Foundation Site as they have various Publications, some of them are free and others a free to a Foundation Member.
I found that printing out a suitable Article be it by one of the well known experts, or perhaps one of the Medical Committees, has helped greatly. Highlighting suitable pieces of information to back up whatever point you wish to make.

There is also this wonderful book, it is easy to read and can be used for discussion purposes with your doctor.
Clinical Management of Restless Legs Syndrome by Lee, Buchfuhrer, Allen and Hening. If you decide to get it, make sure to get the second edition. These Authors are at the top of the league when it comes to the treatment of WED/RLS. It can be found on Amazon.
This book is like the RLS Bible, mine is full of pencilled notations in the margins, notes that are relevant to me. On several occasions it has gone with me to the Doctor with post-its sticking out from various relevant sections. It is a small book that is easily portable.

It is often easier to show a piece of research or the opinion of an Expert than it is to try to explain to someone who is perhaps not well versed in the area you wish to discuss.

I am a sufferer of 30+ years and am well able to put myself forward and to ''fight my corner' but explaining what I mean so that another person understands what I mean, can be difficult. Especially if that person has their own very strong opinions.
The research or the book lets the Expert speak for you.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

chuas2
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby chuas2 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:45 pm

Thank you Betty, that's a really good idea. I've seen some of these articles and studies. What I might do is highlight the stuff I've already told them and send by snail mail. With a note "get a clue!" [just kidding about that last]
I know I'm preaching to the choir, but what makes RLS different and challenging (?) for doctors is because patients have to describe their symptoms, and there's no fever, tumor, whatever and so they're "I don't see any evidence of a problem." My GP just refused to do iron infusions, or even test my ferritin levels.

Rustsmith
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Rustsmith » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:13 pm

chaus2, that is the reason why so many RLS patients have to go through multiple doctors before being diagnosed or finding one who knows how to treat it. It is also why the Foundation Quality Care Centers are all overloaded with patients.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Polar Bear
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Polar Bear » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:06 am

chuas2 ..... Dr should check your ferritin before prescribing ropinerole. He definitely is not up to speed.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

badnights
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby badnights » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:35 pm

chaus2 I feel for you in that situation. When you interact with your doctors about things you have learned about WED/RLS that they are not aware of, your approach should never be "how come you don't know this". You should fill yourself with two awarenesses (?) before you go in, one is that you are confident in the knowledge you've found, and the other is that your doctor is intelligent, dedicated, and very busy, so does not have time to learn everything about every disease - no one does! Be aware of this and confident that you can partner with her, not as equals, but in two mutually beneficial roles - doctor and informed patient.

When you present the material to her, have in mind two or at the most three points you want to make, each one a complete sentence in your head before you go in. For each, say something like "I've found this information and I'd like to get your opinion on it, it might be relevant to my treatment, " then hand her the highlighted article and summarize the highlight, saying "it says here, if I understand correctly, that [blah blah]- is that true?" or "... how do you think that relates to me?" or "... that seems to mean that I should [whatever], what do you think?"

It's hard to maneuver around a big ego, even harder to maneuver around a doctor's insecurities. Remember, no doctor is out to purposely hurt you, and every doctor carries both knowledge and the experience necessary to interpret new information. But they can still be jerks. So maneuver around their egos and insecurities.

It's also hard to overcome a lifetime of being self-effacing or meek without becoming aggressive, but it's important that you do. Your goal is to be assertive (quietly confident that you have something to communicate, but open to finding out you're wrong or partially wrong - open to listening, too).

I would start with the challenge of getting your doctor to order a ferritin test.

BUT - since she actually just refused - - - well, that's a long road of education ahead of you, so I would simultaneously seek a new doctor.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

legsbestill
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:22 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby legsbestill » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:18 pm

Just in relation to your original question, I would start with half teaspoon of Kratom dissolved in grapefruit juice. If that is not effective within about an hour you could try taking an additional half teaspoon. For me, it requires about one and a half teaspoons to address my symptoms effectively but I have been taking Kratom on and off for a while and there is a slight drop off in efficacy. Be prepared, it tastes awful.

chuas2
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby chuas2 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Thank you for the excellent advice all. I've been frustrated by doctors, so I finally ordered some kratom, and it was stolen from my mail. It's almost funny. So I have to reorder the kratom and make sure they ship UPS!

Rustsmith
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Re: New Kratom User - when to take

Postby Rustsmith » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm

That's life!! If it isn't one thing, it is another. :roll:

Last year, I had a prescription that was "lost" due to a DHL truck that caught fire. The pharmacy was the first to inform me about the problem and then said that they couldn't replace it for 30 days "in case it is found". I tried to reason with 2 different levels of customer service and both refused to do anything even though they admitted that everything in the truck was lost. I finally had to have my insurance company contact them and they were able to reach someone with some sense.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.


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