Increasing REM sleep

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
wantok
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:14 pm

Increasing REM sleep

Postby wantok » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:41 am

Have been taking marijuana with some success for three weeks. Studies (actually it may only be one study) says REM sleep is decreased (eliminated?) by marijuana. I can tell something is up because I do not feel rested despite how much larger my chunks of sleep are. Anyone figured out how to increase REM sleep? So many of the meds we are given reduce REM sleep so maybe some of you have some ideas about this.

My self-diagnosis may be flawed regarding the reduction of REM sleep...

Thanks.

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 4175
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Rustsmith » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:08 am

Decreased REM sleep has not been an issue for me when it comes to marijuana. In fact, I believe that I am getting more REM sleep than without THC because I am able to get more sleep in the late night hours (2-5A) than I was get on the nights without THC. However, I am beginning to suspect is that the THC may be causing me to occasionally experience episodes of REM-sleep Behavior Disorder where I physically act out something in my dream. Usually this is some sort of high adrenaline type dream where I am struggling to escape something or fighting with a villain. I always wake up immediately after the violent reaction and immediately realize why all the covers are on the floor or why one night this week I had a sore lip from hitting myself.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 15788
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby ViewsAskew » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:25 am

Rustsmith wrote:Decreased REM sleep has not been an issue for me when it comes to marijuana. In fact, I believe that I am getting more REM sleep than without THC because I am able to get more sleep in the late night hours (2-5A) than I was get on the nights without THC. However, I am beginning to suspect is that the THC may be causing me to occasionally experience episodes of REM-sleep Behavior Disorder where I physically act out something in my dream. Usually this is some sort of high adrenaline type dream where I am struggling to escape something or fighting with a villain. I always wake up immediately after the violent reaction and immediately realize why all the covers are on the floor or why one night this week I had a sore lip from hitting myself.


Yikes!
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

QyX
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby QyX » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:11 pm

Seems like high amount of THC can decrease REM sleep but once I started taking more CBD again REM sleep came back.

The thing with REM sleep is: it is not that necessary as some people believe it is.

Frunobulax
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Frunobulax » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:17 pm

Is REM sleep the phase where we dream? For the last 4 years or so I hardly dream at all, so basically this may have started when I went on Oxycodone. It's not about remembering dreams, and I know that we dream sometime but don't realize it. But until then I would wake up now and then and remember that I have dreamed something (usually I knew a minute later that I dreamt but couldn't remember what). But recently, sometimes no observed dreams for months. There are phases where I dream now and then, but they don't last.

Seems to me that dreams coincide with sleep quality, if I dream occasionally then I'm usually more rested overall, while the phases where I don't dream at all coincide with deep fatigue. So I'm very interested in any observations :)

stjohnh
Posts: 971
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby stjohnh » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:53 pm

For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.
Blessings,
Holland

wantok
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby wantok » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:52 am

Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 4175
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Rustsmith » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:27 pm

As an update to my post on Sept 15 that had to do with REM-Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD), I had an appointment with my RLS specialist yesterday and the discussion of this new issue for me took up most of the appointment. She said that she had never encountered a person with both RLS and RBD but agreed that the things that I was describing sounded a lot like RBD. To get a positive diagnosis of RBD, I would need to do a full sleep study. The problem is that my RBD symptoms don't happen every night. So if things get worse, I can expect another sleep study and she may get a case study publication out of me. The initial treatment for RBD is clonazepam, which she may decide to add to my list of meds if I am still having these problems in six weeks.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

stjohnh
Posts: 971
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby stjohnh » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:05 pm

stjohnh wrote:For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.

wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?


Look at what I wrote, I didn't say anything about REM sleep. The usual progression for people with moderate to severe RLS is:
1) Control urge to move with DAs or other meds.
2) Most RLS patients will find that even though they sleep more hours, they don't feel refreshed in the morning.
3) Deep sleep is the phase that leads to feeling refreshed when a person wakes up.
4) Sleep studies with RLS patients show reduced deep sleep.
5) This leads to many efforts to find more refreshing sleep. The only things I have found that help are THC, IV Iron or kratom in combination with low dose dipyridamole.
Last edited by stjohnh on Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blessings,
Holland

stjohnh
Posts: 971
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby stjohnh » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:07 pm

Rustsmith wrote:As an update to my post on Sept 15 that had to do with REM-Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD),...


Steve, I hadn't heard of RBD, but reading the Wikipedia article on it, sounds pretty bad. I hope you don't have it.

Blessings,
Holland
Blessings,
Holland

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 4175
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Rustsmith » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:24 pm

I hope you don't have it.


Thanks Holland. So far, I haven't progressed to the sleep walking stage where it can start to become dangerous. So far, all I have done is strike out against assailants in my dream and that has caused me to launch all of the bed covers onto the floor; grab my wife's arm; hit myself in the face (slight bruise to my lip); and hit pillows or the mattress at various times. Right now, my biggest fear is that I will hit my wife hard enough to hurt her.

There is no question that I occasionally lose the partial paralysis that is supposed to occur during REM sleep to avoid this sort of problem. Whether it is true RBD or simply a manifestation of something else that is causing very shallow sleep during the REM stage remains to be seen.

And if it does turn out to be RBD, that means that I will have 3 separate sleep disorders: RLS, RBD and UARS (a form of sleep apnea). So no wonder I don't feel as rested as I should even after 8 or 9 hrs of "sleep".
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Polar Bear
Moderator
Posts: 7619
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:34 pm
Location: N. Ireland

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Polar Bear » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:42 pm

Steve, I hadn't heard of this either. No matter whether you do it don't officially have RBD it is all very difficult for you.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 15788
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:58 am

stjohnh wrote:
stjohnh wrote:For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.

wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?


Look at what I wrote, I didn't say anything about REM sleep. The usual progression for people with moderate to severe RLS is:
1) Control urge to move with DAs or other meds.
2) Most RLS patients will find that even though they sleep more hours, they don't feel refreshed in the morning.
3) Deep sleep is the phase that leads to feeling refreshed when a person wakes up.
4) Sleep studies with RLS patients show reduced deep sleep.
5) This leads to many efforts to find more refreshing sleep. The only things I have found that help are THC, IV Iron or kratom in combination with low dose dipyridamole.


I think Qyx said REM wasn't that important, Holland, not you. Qyx hopefully will be here soon to share what he was thinking when he wrote it.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

stjohnh
Posts: 971
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby stjohnh » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:39 pm

Ahh, thanks for the correction Ann.
Blessings,
Holland

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 15788
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby ViewsAskew » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:50 pm

stjohnh wrote:Ahh, thanks for the correction Ann.


So surprised we don't have a comedy of errors here when so many of us are sleep deprived, lol.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.


Return to “Non-prescription Medicines, Supplements, Diet”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest