Increasing REM sleep

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QyX
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby QyX » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:26 pm

wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?


There are people who have no REM sleep at all and they are just fine. Another interesting is an example with bipolar patients who got put on Lithium. For some patients Lithium impacts REM sleep in a way that it completely disappears but they are just fine.

The deep sleep phases are way more important than REM sleep. You can have REM sleep as much as you want. Without any deep sleep phases it means nothing.

Some patients with PTSD even try to suppress their REM sleep as much as possible to avoid nightmares. When they are successful, they generally report a much better sleep quality.

So more REM sleep doesn't automatically mean that you experience a better sleep quality or will feel more rested.

Frunobulax
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Frunobulax » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:27 am

QyX wrote:
wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?


There are people who have no REM sleep at all and they are just fine. Another interesting is an example with bipolar patients who got put on Lithium. For some patients Lithium impacts REM sleep in a way that it completely disappears but they are just fine.
[...]
Some patients with PTSD even try to suppress their REM sleep as much as possible to avoid nightmares.


What is your source for this? I wouldn't take bipolar or PTSD patients as a baseline for this, after all short-term effects on patients with a fairly severe condition may not correlate with long-term effects on patients that are healthy (or have RLS only).

Sleep deprivation has positive effects on some severely depressed patients. Maybe the effect comes from suppression of REM sleep? But nobody would suggest it for healthy people, in fact I heard some strong arguments recently that we need at least 3 cycles with all 4 sleep phases per night.

QyX
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby QyX » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:02 am

What is your source for this?


I've been very active in the bipolar community for many years and was especially involved with a group of researchers who investigate Lithium. They claim the changes in REM sleep could be a general property of the substance.

I wouldn't take bipolar or PTSD patients as a baseline for this, after all short-term effects on patients with a fairly severe condition may not correlate with long-term effects on patients that are healthy (or have RLS only).


Of course. But it nevertheless interesting information.

Sleep deprivation has positive effects on some severely depressed patients. Maybe the effect comes from suppression of REM sleep? But nobody would suggest it for healthy people, in fact I heard some strong arguments recently that we need at least 3 cycles with all 4 sleep phases per night.
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Yes, actually I was pretty surprised when I learned this information some years ago at conference. Personally I just believe everybody is different.

In the end my only point is that as long as you experience your sleep as refreshing, I wouldn't worry about not having REM sleep.

Stainless
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:30 pm

Re: Increasing REM sleep

Postby Stainless » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:00 pm

I've been monitoring my sleep with a Fitbit watch for the last year. I'm not so impressed with the watch but it consistently only records any kind of sleep from about 2am until I wake up. Usually I log 2 - 3 hours on watch while I'm in bed from 10pm until 6 or 7am. Sometimes less or even none. Maximum recorded sleep is about 5 hours. In the last year it has only recorded one night of any kind of sleep before midnight. I'm not sure what this proves but assume my RLS dosen't quiet down until very late. I've quit trying to figure REM, light sleep and deep sleep mean much as recorded by watch because I don't see much of a pattern. I get the best results if I sleep in but that is not natural for me and I hate missing the early morning.

Last night was very typical with 2hr 52 min from 3 until 6 with about 40 min of deep and no REM. But like most mornings I feel rested.


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