Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) Discussion Board

Have been taking marijuana with some success for three weeks. Studies (actually it may only be one study) says REM sleep is decreased (eliminated?) by marijuana. I can tell something is up because I do not feel rested despite how much larger my chunks of sleep are. Anyone figured out how to increase REM sleep? So many of the meds we are given reduce REM sleep so maybe some of you have some ideas about this.

My self-diagnosis may be flawed regarding the reduction of REM sleep...

Thanks.

Decreased REM sleep has not been an issue for me when it comes to marijuana. In fact, I believe that I am getting more REM sleep than without THC because I am able to get more sleep in the late night hours (2-5A) than I was get on the nights without THC. However, I am beginning to suspect is that the THC may be causing me to occasionally experience episodes of REM-sleep Behavior Disorder where I physically act out something in my dream. Usually this is some sort of high adrenaline type dream where I am struggling to escape something or fighting with a villain. I always wake up immediately after the violent reaction and immediately realize why all the covers are on the floor or why one night this week I had a sore lip from hitting myself.

Rustsmith wrote:Decreased REM sleep has not been an issue for me when it comes to marijuana. In fact, I believe that I am getting more REM sleep than without THC because I am able to get more sleep in the late night hours (2-5A) than I was get on the nights without THC. However, I am beginning to suspect is that the THC may be causing me to occasionally experience episodes of REM-sleep Behavior Disorder where I physically act out something in my dream. Usually this is some sort of high adrenaline type dream where I am struggling to escape something or fighting with a villain. I always wake up immediately after the violent reaction and immediately realize why all the covers are on the floor or why one night this week I had a sore lip from hitting myself.

Yikes!

Seems like high amount of THC can decrease REM sleep but once I started taking more CBD again REM sleep came back.

The thing with REM sleep is: it is not that necessary as some people believe it is.

Is REM sleep the phase where we dream? For the last 4 years or so I hardly dream at all, so basically this may have started when I went on Oxycodone. It's not about remembering dreams, and I know that we dream sometime but don't realize it. But until then I would wake up now and then and remember that I have dreamed something (usually I knew a minute later that I dreamt but couldn't remember what). But recently, sometimes no observed dreams for months. There are phases where I dream now and then, but they don't last.

Seems to me that dreams coincide with sleep quality, if I dream occasionally then I'm usually more rested overall, while the phases where I don't dream at all coincide with deep fatigue. So I'm very interested in any observations

For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.

Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?

As an update to my post on Sept 15 that had to do with REM-Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD), I had an appointment with my RLS specialist yesterday and the discussion of this new issue for me took up most of the appointment. She said that she had never encountered a person with both RLS and RBD but agreed that the things that I was describing sounded a lot like RBD. To get a positive diagnosis of RBD, I would need to do a full sleep study. The problem is that my RBD symptoms don't happen every night. So if things get worse, I can expect another sleep study and she may get a case study publication out of me. The initial treatment for RBD is clonazepam, which she may decide to add to my list of meds if I am still having these problems in six weeks.

stjohnh wrote:For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.

wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?

Look at what I wrote, I didn't say anything about REM sleep. The usual progression for people with moderate to severe RLS is:
1) Control urge to move with DAs or other meds.
2) Most RLS patients will find that even though they sleep more hours, they don't feel refreshed in the morning.
3) Deep sleep is the phase that leads to feeling refreshed when a person wakes up.
4) Sleep studies with RLS patients show reduced deep sleep.
5) This leads to many efforts to find more refreshing sleep. The only things I have found that help are THC, IV Iron or kratom in combination with low dose dipyridamole.

Rustsmith wrote:As an update to my post on Sept 15 that had to do with REM-Sleep Behavior Disorder (RBD),...

Steve, I hadn't heard of RBD, but reading the Wikipedia article on it, sounds pretty bad. I hope you don't have it.

Blessings,
Holland

I hope you don't have it.

Thanks Holland. So far, I haven't progressed to the sleep walking stage where it can start to become dangerous. So far, all I have done is strike out against assailants in my dream and that has caused me to launch all of the bed covers onto the floor; grab my wife's arm; hit myself in the face (slight bruise to my lip); and hit pillows or the mattress at various times. Right now, my biggest fear is that I will hit my wife hard enough to hurt her.

There is no question that I occasionally lose the partial paralysis that is supposed to occur during REM sleep to avoid this sort of problem. Whether it is true RBD or simply a manifestation of something else that is causing very shallow sleep during the REM stage remains to be seen.

And if it does turn out to be RBD, that means that I will have 3 separate sleep disorders: RLS, RBD and UARS (a form of sleep apnea). So no wonder I don't feel as rested as I should even after 8 or 9 hrs of "sleep".

Steve, I hadn't heard of this either. No matter whether you do it don't officially have RBD it is all very difficult for you.

stjohnh wrote:

stjohnh wrote:For most people with RLS the primary sleep phase reduced is deep sleep. Unfortunately, this is also the sleep phase that is hardest to accurately measure outside of a sleep study with eeg monitoring.

wantok wrote:Qyx: why do you say that REM sleep is not that important?

Look at what I wrote, I didn't say anything about REM sleep. The usual progression for people with moderate to severe RLS is:
1) Control urge to move with DAs or other meds.
2) Most RLS patients will find that even though they sleep more hours, they don't feel refreshed in the morning.
3) Deep sleep is the phase that leads to feeling refreshed when a person wakes up.
4) Sleep studies with RLS patients show reduced deep sleep.
5) This leads to many efforts to find more refreshing sleep. The only things I have found that help are THC, IV Iron or kratom in combination with low dose dipyridamole.

I think Qyx said REM wasn't that important, Holland, not you. Qyx hopefully will be here soon to share what he was thinking when he wrote it.

Ahh, thanks for the correction Ann.

stjohnh wrote:Ahh, thanks for the correction Ann.

So surprised we don't have a comedy of errors here when so many of us are sleep deprived, lol.