My one year anniversary on a low oxalate/salicylate eating plan.

[Deb212]

Today I look back on one year ago and my desire to end my suffering from RLS. I really didn't expect a happy ending. Thanks to "notnowdad" and his excellent information on oxalytes and their impact on RLS, I have a life that's worth living!!!
I have a few go to fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds that I found don't affect me if I don't eat a lot of them. Certain things like bananas and asparagus are RLS triggers for me, Why doesn't matter to me. I just don't eat them.
Coffee is not an RLS trigger for me, but it can affect sleep quality. I restrict it to one cup a day and except for that, I only drink water.
Thankfully, I have found that if I'm careful in my consumption of offending foods, I can eat a little chocolate from time to time. What a treat!
I really hope that RLS research will start to take a deep dive into environmental/nutritional triggers so that those of us who never wanted to take the RLS drugs in the first place and found that they only made everything much worse, may find alternatives to chemical solutions.
Peace to you all and I wish you all a good night's sleep.
My best,
Deb

[notnowdad]

Congratulations, Deb! I'm so happy for you.

If you can find organic asparagus I think you may be OK with it. I have learned that "non-organic" asparagus and artichokes are typically sprayed with an oxalic acid solution post harvest to "preserve freshness and nutrients" while in storage and transportation. I have heard that some fruits are similarly sprayed but I'm not sure which ones. Except for melons I only buy organic fruits.

I would be interested to know what nuts and seeds you find to tolerable.

All the best,
Jim

[Deb212]

Hi Jim and thanks again for the low oxalate information. This information has saved my life and that is not an exaggeration.

I also buy organic. If it's not organic, I simply don't buy it. I don't know why even organic asparagus triggers me.

I have found I can eat pecans. I count them out and never eat more than 10 halves and I limit that to a few times a week. I have also found that I can tolerate walnuts in small quantities, but I rarely eat them because I like pecans better. I eat sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, but again in small quantities and not every day. I only use sunflower oil when oil is called for in cooking or baking.

I feel that the oxalates build up in me if I eat too many - even ones that I can mostly tolerate. I take two or three days off a week from eating any known oxalates, so maybe every two or three days I take a break for a day from foods with known oxalates. I'm still experimenting with this theory.

Thank you for your good wishes. I think we are onto something here.

Deb

[Polar Bear]

Deb, it's wonderful to hear that this low oxalate diet is working so well for you.
And, thank you Jim for providing the information that helped Deb.
Everyone's post is always welcome because the information therein may just help another member, as yours did.

[Catcrazy23]

Thank you for your posts about oxalates. I’m very interested in learning more and hope you will recommend a few books, papers or web sites you believe would be very informative about oxalates. Thank you.

[Frunobulax]

Thank you for your posts about oxalates. I’m very interested in learning more and hope you will recommend a few books, papers or web sites you believe would be very informative about oxalates. Thank you.

Sally Norton specializes in oxalates: https://sallyknorton.com/. If you search her name on youtube you'll find some good videos.
There is a very good facebook group on oxalates, with tons of documents and references to published research: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TryingLowOxalates/. (I absolutely loathe facebook and use a fake name/profile, but this is the most comprehensive collection of oxalate information I know, so there we are.)
https://oxalate.org/ lists oxalate contents of various foods.

The main trouble with low oxalate diet, in my opinion, is knowing with foods to avoid: The oxalate content for foods varies enormously from study to study. For example cauliflower is given as 150mg per 100g (very high oxalate) in one study and 1mg (very low) in another study. The reason for this is that oxalate is often measured by urine content (feed the participants a food and measure the oxalate content in the urine), which is complete nonsense: Our body forms its own oxalate (more if you lack certain nutrients like B1 or B6), and may bind/excrete oxalate if you add magnesium or calcium. (99.9% of oxalate research focuses on kidney stones, hence the unfortunate tunnel vision on urine.)
The facebook group I mentioned has a very comprehensive table oxalate contents coming from reliable studies (in case you wondered: Cauliflower is safe and listed between 1 and 3 mg there), but they ask to not share these documents, so I have to respect that.

[Catcrazy23]

Thank you for the info. I will be looking into this further.

[Deb212]

Hi Catcrazy23.
I began by doing an internet search and found most information about oxalates is in reference to kidney stone problems which I don't have. Most of that information is incomplete and some of it is contradictory. I believe there isn't much information on how oxalates affect RLS because medications seem to be the first line of defense and I understand that because nutritional causes for health problems are very hard to tease out. I truly wish there were studies I could mention, but except for telling me to stay away from sugar and coffee I didn't receive any nutritional help from those who treat RLS. Coffee and white refined sugar are low oxalate and do not trigger my RLS. Honey is high oxalate and absolutely triggers my RLS.

I have to note that I don't take any medications for anything (anymore) and nothing over the counter - ever.

I used a daily food journal to figure out my triggers. Journaling is a long intensive process that I still use.

The most useful information I found was on Facebook. I am no longer on Facebook so I don't want to send you anything on those because I can't vet them anymore. There was one that I found most helpful that was a low oxalate/low salicylate group but I don't remember the name. There was another one that was named something like "low oxalate spreadsheet".

Also worth noting is that my RLS is triggered also by bananas and asparagus which are both low oxalate.

Because of other health issues I don't eat soy, gluten, msg, artificial sweeteners and most processed foods. I don't eat anything that contains "natural flavors" because this is where manufacturers can put msg into a product without disclosing it. I don't know if any of this adds to the success of my low oxalate/salicylate eating plan, but avoiding those things alone did not help my RLS.

I guess what I'm saying is that we need to do our own research and the only way I know is to keep a record of what we eat and how we react to it.
It's easy to get discouraged because it's so complicated and not a quick fix like medication seems to be. I think RLS is a complicated condition and we have only just begun to uncover some underlying contributors like low iron and nutritional triggers.

I believe an open mind and persistence are our best tools.

My best
I'd be interested in a way for us in the RLS community to be collaborative on this issue.

[Catcrazy23]

Thank you for the info. My initial searches have definitely turned up contradictory info and really nothing linking oxalates to RLS (except for this site). Like most of us, I have really struggled with RLS and it’s dramatic impact on my life. I’ve been blessed to be very healthy until RLS, so It’s hard for me to understand what “happened” fairly quickly in my life that seemed to “welcome” RLS into my life. Because of the severe RLS impact, I have to take medications and have most recently had injectafer infusions which do seem to have a positive effect. But I digress; I’m very interested in looking at how diet may influence RLS as an additional tool to lessen the symptoms. Thanks again.

[Restless Nana]

I’m not familiar with this type of diet,, but i can research that. Most of all I want to know if this eating plan has made you feel and how has your rls been? Thanks

[Frunobulax]

Thank you for the info. My initial searches have definitely turned up contradictory info and really nothing linking oxalates to RLS (except for this site). Like most of us, [...] I’m very interested in looking at how diet may influence RLS as an additional tool to lessen the symptoms. Thanks again.

Unfortunately, doctors learn nothing about connections between diet and chronic diseases in general. And specifically antinutrients (stuff that plants have to protect them against insects) were never even considered to be potentially harmful.
<sarcasm>We live in the garden of Eden and all plants are totally healthy for us because they were made for us to consume. Oh, there are toxic plants? But all others must be perfectly safe, surely?</sarcasm>
The dose makes the poison, we can indeed tolerate most antinutrients as long as we keep below our threshold, which varies a lot from person to person. It doesn't help that farmers systematically breed plants to have more antinutrients than they used to, because they have to use less pesticides this way.

Research about lectins has picked up in the last 10 years or so, but oxalates are mostly considered in the context of kidney stones, which explains the tunnel vision on urine oxalate concentration. So we have very little research and often only anecdotal evidence. Apparently recent research shows connections between oxalates and autism, but we haven't really explored other diseases.

I'd always advocate for a "paleo" style diet: Eat whatever hunters and gatherers had available, stay away from the rest. We don't know exactly which modern ingredients cause our diseases (higher contents of antinutrients, preservatives, flavors, emulsifiers), eliminating all is the best option. If this leads to improvement, you can slowly reintroduce the modern stuff and see what causes the problems.

Most doctors would consider it "esoteric" what we're doing here. (I disagree, I do believe this is science.)

[Frunobulax]

I guess what I'm saying is that we need to do our own research and the only way I know is to keep a record of what we eat and how we react to it.

Keep in mind that there may be a considerable delay. Many people say it takes 24h hours until oxalate symptoms will become noticable.

[sarahpatto]

I am interested in figuring out whether certain foods trigger RLS. Seems like a Sisyphean task since I have RLF every night and can't imagine where to start eliminating foods. I will check out the FAcebook group mentioned but if anyone has any advice about how to embark on this please let me know.

[Polar Bear]

What comes to mind is alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, sugary foods, fatty and fried foods. Quite a list. As we are all so different it can only be a case of trial and error. Keeping a record and see how it goes.

[XenMan]

I am interested in figuring out whether certain foods trigger RLS. Seems like a Sisyphean task since I have RLF every night and can't imagine where to start eliminating foods.

For some of us it is seen as simple as we have often changed diets, but for many people the thought does seem daunting. There is also the social and family implications especially if it requires a different meal to everyone else.

The short version is that you make list of types of foods and then either eliminate or just eat them. You also need to expect that this process will take a while and you are not specifically looking for better RLS, but changes. For example reducing oxalate can make symptoms much worse, but then it gives you a nutrient to target, research and find solutions to.

I chose to use the dumping route for my oxalate which resulted in terrible RLS, but is getting it out of my system and has taken over two years to now have much milder symptoms. If I was just using a low oxalate diet I would still have the stored oxalate and have to balance intake to stop dumping; probably for decades.

A starting point for different diets are the broad categories of plants, meats, dairy, carbohydrate. Things such as caffeine, alcohol and nicotine seem to be more of an influence than a cause. Caffeine didn't make a difference for me a year ago, now it results in much worse symptoms.

Good luck.