Is. Kratom safe?

[jul2873]

I’ve been taking kratom for 10 years. I’ve been healthy but then this Jan. I had a small stroke—a TIA I think it’s called. And this morning my blood pressure, which has always been low without meds, spiked. It came down but now my primary care and. Cardiologist are trying to get me to quit kratom and take more Lyrica or a DA. I don’t want to do that. Any advice?

[Rustsmith]

Since you have been doing well on kratom (a weak opioid). Ask them to let you try Tramadol ER or buprenorphine. Tramadol is Sch IV, so you can even get a 90 day supply. Buprenorphine is Sch III, so it doesn't have as much red tape for the doctor's staff to wrestle with as do the other opioids, but it currently carries the stigma of primarily being used to treat drug addicts.

[jul2873]

Wow. Thanks, Steve. That's a great idea, as the doctors keep telling me that the problem with kratom is that there is not enough research on it, and they don't know how it will interact with the other meds I have to take (for my thyroid, heart, etc.) I am calling my Primary Care tomorrow.

[Eternityroad]

You mentioned thyroid med. I have been taking Kratom for five years. I also take a synthetic thyroid medication because my thyroid was deadened 30 years ago. (Grave's disease). The Kratom dosen't interfere with the thyroid meds. At least as far as I know. Haven't had any issues with it. Nor the other med. I take, fludrocortisone. (Syncope)

Ken

[Dr.Placebo]

Until recently I took kratom (red vein) at a very low dose (0.5-1 gram) at bedtime for RLS and it worked great. After about a year I started having to increase the dose to 1.75-2 grams because of what i thought was "breakthrough PLMD". specifically I was having bad twitching and jerking of my torso and upper limbs. Taking more kratom relieved that. One day it occurred to my sleep-deprived brain that, hey, this twitching, spasming and dose escalation is the same thing that happened when I augmented on dopamine agonists! So with a heavy heart I chose to discontinue the kratom. the upper body twitching has stopped but my sleep is terrible. BTW i am a physician who retired early because of sleep-deprivation from RLS and now I can't find a doctor to treat me! (how ironic is that?) so I have been self-medicating with whatever I can scavenge (I can't prescribe for myself). I don't want to dissuade anyone from trying kratom because it really was a live-saver for me for a long time when I had no one to help me (none of the MDs in my area knew anything about RLS) and I am very disappointed that I no longer have that in my bag of tricks for getting sleep. My experience may not be typical, but anyone using kratom should probably keep the dose as low as possible and look out for signs of augmentation. As previously noted, there is very little science on kratom. It is known to bind to opioid receptors but no one knows what it does to dopamine.

[Eternityroad]

Dr. Placebo,
I have just finished the Buchfurher book on RLS. It is out of date so no surprise it makes no mention of Kratom. One thing it did, however, was set me straight as to what exactly is augmentation. I use to think it was worsening of symptoms no matter. I have been using kratom for 5 years and the last two years have had to gradually increase my dose. I took Ropinerole ten years ago but quit after two weeks because of no effect. Becuase augmentation is linked to prolonged dopamine agonist usage I am convinced my increased symptoms are due to "worsening of symptoms" rather than augmentation. The book does distinguish between the two. Other symptoms of augmentation are not there for me, like spreading to other body parts nor starting earlier in the day. so I am wondering if your issues are "worsening of symptoms" rather than augmentation per se. Yet like you mentioned little study has been done with Kratom. I have been using both hydrocodone and Kratom just so I don't build up a resistance to the Kratom. I had been using only hydrocodone before discovering Kratom.Then I weaned myself off hydrocodone. I added it in again last year in smaller daily dose in addition to the Kratom. But the price of hydrocodone is climbing. A bottle of 90 pills at 7.5-350 now costs me 40$ a month. Last year it was 18$. I am trying to cut back by half my dosage of Hydrcodone or just use it on nights when my symptoms are horrible. BTW my daily doesage of Kratom is 12 tsp spread out between 5 pm and 3 am. I use the hydrocodone at noon and it keeps me good until 5pm. I use a variety of types of Kratom: Red Broneo, White, Green Madong.

Ken

[Dr.Placebo]

Ken, I am getting to the point where I'm not sure what is going on anymore; what is helping, what is making me worse. All I know is that I feel awful most of the time. Yes, I originally thought my dose escalation was because of worsening of my disease over time, but in my case having started and stopped the kratom a few times, there seems to be an immediate increase in the upper body twitching now if I take even one dose. Maybe it is an idiosyncratic reaction I am having. Everything about my case is idiosyncratic, for instance, my initial "restless" symptoms were entirely in my hands, not in my legs, but otherwise matched all descriptions of RLS. initially it was intermittent, then over the years became more frequent until it happened every night. (BTW, i once put a TENS unit on my hands, which relieved the symptoms in my hands, but they then appeared in my feet!). But next I was prescribed ropinerole for PLMD noted on sleep study and gradually the "restlessness" in my hands went away at the same time as I developed involuntary twitching and spasms in my chest, torso and arms. I never had any involuntary awake movements before taking ropinerole. Would you call that augmentation?

I need to get the Buchfurher book and read about augmentation (I have never seen a physician who knew anything about it so my diagnosis is self-made).

[Eternityroad]

Dr. Placebo,
Don't give up hope. I suggest, if you haven't already, to sign up with the Restless Legs Foundation. Among their introductory materials is a booklet you can give your doctor if they don't know much about the disease. I have addressed my Kratom story in a reply to you under the thread Augmentation Or Something else. I am pretty much self-diagnosed as well. Two years ago my doctor used the computer to find an agonist for me. It was prampexerole and the dose was too much. It was for a person with Parkinson's. Thank goodness I had read the info at this site. But I didn't want to deal with augmentation down the road so I never took the tablets. I am sticking to Kratom and Hydrocodone....for now.

Ken