Low Oxalate Dieters Please Read This

[notnowdad]

In my two most recent posts I described some interesting new results I was having from changes in my diet unrelated to my low oxalate regimen. When I wrote them I was excited by my results because I had an incredible increase in vitality and “felt like I had a new pair of legs”. I also strongly believed I had become less vulnerable to the negative effects of oxalate.

Writing the most recent one caused me to realize the next step would be an experiment in which I consumed significant amounts of oxalate to see if I had become able to tolerate a normal amount once again. Five days ago I began an oxalate “challenge”. For breakfast I had muesli made with whole grains, almonds and hazelnuts. Four days ago I had muesli for breakfast and at lunch I included boiled potatoes with skins on. Three days ago I again had the muesli, potatoes and added steamed spinach. I had the same three high oxalate foods two days ago and I added some blackberries as part of an afternoon snack. Yesterday I was out of muesli so I had whole grain steel cut oats with blackberries, potatoes and sautéed spinach at lunch. Over these five days I have had absolutely no RLS leg discomforts, not even what I have described in the past as “leg awareness”. I have been no more aware of my legs than I am of my ears.

I realize I can’t be certain that I have recovered my ability to tolerate oxalate. An alternate explanation could be that, after 8 years of avoiding oxalate, I have a brief period in which I can ingest it without overloading myself, and that the RLS may return eventually. I’m guardedly optimistic that is not the case, but time will tell. I also realize I haven’t yet addressed my body’s tendency to produce excess oxalic acid when I consume glycine rich gelatinous soups and stews. I will address that issue soon and report my results.

Now I am eager to know if other people can achieve a restored ability to tolerate oxalate. As I have described in my recent posts my regimen is not easy and strict discipline is probably necessary. I haven’t been eating in restaurants and I prepare all my food from scratch. If I want chips I get some high quality, organic corn tortillas and fry them in virgin coconut oil.

It is possible that my regimen is more difficult than it needs to be. I have been completely avoiding refined, bleached and deodorized cooking oils made from seeds (corn, soy, canola, etc.) while I have been minimizing my exposure to fluoride as much as possible. The fluoride avoidance requires filtering my city water, eating organic fruits and vegetables and avoiding non-stick cookware that isn’t PFOA and PTFE free. My hunch is that fluoride is the primary culprit is my loss of tolerance for oxalate. But I also believe that the RBD cooking oils may make me more susceptible to the negative effects of fluoride. Because my very severe allergies all vanished when I avoided both of these simultaneously, I’m very reluctant to change my regimen. When I stopped using conventional non-stick pans and purchased some steel pans my allergies came back. It took me awhile to realize the pans had been preseasoned at the factory with RBD oil. I reseasoned them with organic unrefined palm oil. The new “ceramic” non-stick pans are also okay for me. I haven’t been using any canned foods or beverages because I believe many of the invisible plastic liners in the cans may have toxic fluorocarbons in them. If I didn’t bake my own bread I would try to find organic loaves or some that I could verify were made with unbromated flour. Bromine is a halogen that may have the same negative effects of fluorine. Many modern medicines include fluoride because it creates a “time release” effect.

I hope some of you will be interested enough to accept my invitation, implement a personal experiment and, perhaps, be able to report good results. I think my posts of 11/19/21 and 8/5/22 will give you sufficient information. Please feel to ask questions here. I wish you all the best. Jim Hejl

[badnights]

I haven't managed to go low-oxalate yet, let alone be ready to test re-entry of oxalates into my diet. :~|

I have a question about fluoride filters - is it true gravity filters are best for fluoride removal? What kind of filter do you use and how carefully did you research its effectiveness?

[notnowdad]

Clearly Filtered is the brand of pitchers I use. All their documentation seemed excellent and I have had good luck with them. I live alone and cook all my meals at home. I keep two pitchers on the counter. I think I have been replacing the filters about every 8 weeks, but it may be more frequently. I have been meaning to check my records concerning the interval. I will let you know if I find differently. Because my allergies return when the filters start failing, I know when they need changing. I think a reverse osmosis system may be more economical and a bit more maintenance free but I haven't looked into that yet.

[badnights]

I just started looking into it. The RO filters use a lot of water - I think 4 times the amount of water is used than is produced.

There are two under-the-counter ones that work: RO which uses more water and takes longer, and de-ionizer (be sure to get the kind "with ion exchange resin"). Then there's systems with activated alumina filters, which are mostly portable (but some are under-the-sink); the filters have to be changed more often and the system is slower than the others (1/4 gallon per minute).(I got all this info from wiki-how https://www.wikihow.life/Filter-Fluoride-from-Water)

There are also distillers, which don't use filters at all, but are the slowest of all.

I've ordered a Clearly Filtered pitcher. The filters are expensive, but I think it's the best option for me right now.

[Kathryn60]

I have a berky water filter and they have specific filters for flouride removal

[Deb212]

Since I have been following a low oxalate eating plan, I have experienced dramatically reduced RLS. However, I was often still experiencing restlessness (and sometimes RLS) in the evening when trying to relax and after going to bed. I also suffer from insomnia. I kinda thought my insomnia was a product of never having had a "normal" circadian rhythm. I also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis and must be careful to maintain my diet to avoid triggering an autoimmune response. That means I am careful that I don't eat soy, gluten, most processed foods or too many goitrogens The Hashimoto's protocol also includes no dairy but I have had to add dairy back into my diet since I am eating low oxalate. I have read that chlorine and fluoride may contribute to thyroiditis and, in the past, have considered trying to remove these chemicals from my diet for that reason. I drink coffee in the morning and only water the rest of the day. I no longer drink alcohol (I haven't in years). After seeing this post from Jim, I decided to try drinking purified water with electrolytes added back in because purifying water through reverse osmosis removes the good with the bad. My sleep patterns changed almost immediately - for the better! Two weeks later I'm sleeping four to five hours at a time and experiencing much less awake time overall. My buzzing restlessness is much reduced and for the past two nights I did not experience any restlessness.

I'm not a scientist and am not even trying to figure out why this might be working for me. I really appreciate everything you all are doing, especially you, Jim, to get to the root of this horrible affliction. I'm just trying to add some anecdotal information to this topic in hopes that we can figure this out together.

Wishing you all a good night's sleep.

Deb

[XenMan]

I decided to try drinking purified water ... Two weeks later I'm sleeping four to five hours at a time and experiencing much less awake time overall. My buzzing restlessness is much reduced and for the past two nights I did not experience any restlessness.

Well done with your success.

We are all very different, and something that may not impact most people can have a bad reaction in some. Your experience highlights that if you are doing dietary changes, to include everything, which includes the tap water as well.

Could the extra electrolytes be helping or actually be the reason? Many have success with magnesium and potassium.

[Deb212]

Thanks for the question and I guess anything is possible. I probably would have discovered that electrolytes helped me as I've tried just about everything to tame RLS and those types of supplements were a good starting place and I'm still careful to hydrate. That's why I mentioned that you have to add back electrolytes.
I always try to note my co-existing health issue (Hashimoto's Thyroiditis) because that probably makes me different from someone who suffers from diabetes because I totally agree with you and I do not believe there is one answer for all.
I don't know if drinking water sans chlorine and fluoride has made any difference at all in my insomnia or restlessness (when I say restlessness I'm trying to differentiate between that and RLS- RLS is torture). It could also be something else that I have not recognized yet, like the fact that I no longer eat chocolate. I picked trying the fluoride and chlorine free water because I already know that they interfere with thyroid function.
This is a very savvy community that's why I'm putting this information out there. But it's anecdotal information, not scientific research.

[notnowdad]

Deb, you are doing wonderful work. Thank you for sharing your results. I can’t prove all of the following but I think it may be true.

Fluoride damages the lining of the small intestine. Ibuprofen and other NSAID’s exacerbate this damage in the gut. Originally, these drugs were considered superior to aspirin because they didn’t do as much damage within the stomach. With the recent advent of pill cameras their damage to the small intestine can now be seen, as described by Dr. Gundry in his book “The Plant Paradox”. The damage to the small intestine can become so bad that a low salicylate diet can be of benefit to some people.

Bile salts are produced in the liver and stored in the gall bladder. The key role of bile salts is to enable the absorption of fats in the small intestine. During proper digestion, after the fats are absorbed, almost all of these highly reactive salts are reabsorbed from the digested food prior to its moving into the colon. When the fats aren’t properly absorbed in the small intestine the bile salts are carried into the colon where they damage the colonic mucosa. Bile salt damage to the mucosa allows inappropriate absorption of oxalates through the wall of the colon. The inappropriate presence of bile salts in the colon may also damage, or interfere with the functioning of, the ileocecal valve between the small intestine and the colon. This leads to colonic bacteria leaking into the small intestine where they grow out of control and cause small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). In a Stanford study seven out of seven subjects with RLS were found to suffer SIBO.

The refined, bleached and deodorized cooking oils made from seeds (corn, canola, soy, etc.) may be difficult for the body to absorb during digestion. The refining of these oils dampens their reactivity in order to prevent rancidity and make them shelf-stable. Use of these fats probably contributes to the problem of bile salts ending up in the colon. The process of restoring proper digestive function may be enhanced by avoiding these oils.

RBD seed oils used in restaurants are routinely heated to very high temperatures for hours on end, then daily filtered and reused for up to two weeks. This abuse of these fats probably exacerbates the problem of their poor intestinal absorption. Some doctors addressing the problem of fat mal-absorption in people who have had “weight loss surgery” recommend coconut oil because its medium chain triglycerides are the most easily absorbed fats. Some people believe it is so well utilized that it enhances weight loss. My personal experience is consistent with that.

I believe fluoride causes RLS in several ways. It damages the intestinal lining. This damage interferes with fat absorption. Unabsorbed fats carry bile salts into the colon which leads to inappropriate absorption of oxalates. Fluoride induced damage to the intestinal lining probably exacerbates the problem of poor re-absorption of bile salts within the small intestine. This damage has also been tied to iron anemia among children in India.

In a completely different area, fluoride interferes with the proper functioning of the liver and directly causes a low grade hyperoxaluria, which is an inappropriate, excessive production of oxalic acid. In a chapter titled “Nonneoplastic Diseases of the Kidney” by M.D. Shahrier Amin, Stephen M. Bonsib in Urologic Surgical Pathology (Fourth Edition), 2020, in a section sub-titled “Oxalate-Associated Renal Disease” it says that secondary hyperoxaluria may result from methoxyflurane anesthesia and offers the following explanation:

"The free fluoride in methoxyflurane appears to stimulate excessive oxalate production by the liver"

[XenMan]

I believe fluoride causes RLS in several ways...

There are very large populations that have fluoride and very large populations who don't, without any health differences between them based on known mechanisms of fluoride toxicity.

The causes of RLS are numerous, and it may be possible that for some it is a factor. But just as the whole theory of iron has been inconsistent and disproven in some papers as a cause of RLS, it still is likely a cause for some, but fluoride as a cause would be rare.

But certainly worth considering along with many other things.

[Deb212]

Thanks, Jim, for all your information and for putting your theories out there for us to consider. Perhaps if we keep an open mind, we can figure out what triggers and contributes to RLS and then, hopefully, we can figure out solutions. I know that other people can eat foods all day long without any issues that would trigger severe RLS in me. I know that a lot of people drink chlorinated and fluoridated water and have absolutely no issues, yet, it seems, when I drink these chemicals, I have increased restlessness especially at night.
Do oxalates and or fluoride cause or trigger a condition that I already have?

[Frunobulax]

The only thing I know about fluoride is that it suppresses thyroid function and iodine uptake (see for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6466022/). RLS is linked to hypothyroidism (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 74229/full).

It's not much evidence, but another possible connection. In any case I don't think our ancestors were exposed to fluoride in any way, while they did get a decent amount of iodine (more than we do nowadays, mostly via fish consumption I believe).

[XenMan]

In any case I don't think our ancestors were exposed to fluoride in any way, while they did get a decent amount of iodine (more than we do nowadays, mostly via fish consumption I believe).

"Foods with fluoride include:

Seafood: Seafood like crab legs and shrimp are not only a delicious and fancy delicacy, but also among the best natural sources of fluoride.

Wine, Juice, Grapes and Raisins: Grapes contain fluoride, raisins are one of the most concentrated sources of natural fluoride. White wine contains twice as much fluoride as red wine.

Fruit: Many kinds of fresh fruit are excellent natural sources of fluoride, just be sure to eat the fruit raw. Fruit that contains fluoride includes apples, peaches, strawberries, bananas, watermelon, cherries and countless others.

Potatoes: Potatoes are a great source of fluoride, Russet potatoes have the highest amount of fluoride, but any variety will provide you with some fluoride.

Coffee and Black Tea: Coffee and black tea both contain fluoride naturally..."

[Frunobulax]

In any case I don't think our ancestors were exposed to fluoride in any way, while they did get a decent amount of iodine (more than we do nowadays, mostly via fish consumption I believe).

"Foods with fluoride include: [...]

I was referring to hunters and gatherers. They wouldn't have had access to coffee and tea, potatoes are poisonous if not cooked, and fruit are seasonal and only available for a couple of months per year. Not sure if they would have eaten a lot of crab legs or shrimp, I assume they would have gone more for large fish.

But you're right, the "not exposed to fluoride" was wrong. But we're eating a lot more food high in fluoride (as your list confirms), and we're fortifying a lot of stuff with fluoride. On the other hands, iodine intake seems to have declined somewhat, throwing off the balance between those two halogens.

[Deb212]

This is from the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/basics ... ry%20foods.
"The mineral fluoride occurs naturally on earth and is released from rocks into the soil, water, and air. All water contains some fluoride. Usually, the fluoride level in water is not enough to prevent tooth decay; however, some groundwater and natural springs can have naturally high levels of fluoride."