Help Please Low Oxalate Fluoride and Medicine Changes

[Macadwel]

Hi all,
I have run into a problem on my journey as I have changed medication from tramadol 100 mg 3X per day to hydrocodone-acedamin 5-325 and the hydrocodone is not working at all. I am still on gabapentin which helps at times but it is hit or miss.

I have switched to all low oxalate food 90% of it is organic all the meat/milk/eggs/dairy is organic some of the dry goods and a few veg are not organic, but I am trying at this time to make sure I eat mostly organic. I am taking the ReMag 1X per day too.

I believe from my entries I have been on this diet for at least three weeks.

My legs have been driving me nuts for the last week since I switch to the hydros. I get a little relief maybe for 3 hours in the early evening and maybe 3 hours from 8:30 pm - 11:30 pm then all bets are off for the night. I get no relief. I have been saving the hydros for night relief. I take one at 4/5 pm then another at 8/9:30 pm and then the last one when I:30/3:30 am, thinking if I load up it might help, but it does not seem to be helping this way. If the day is bad I will take the 9:30 pm during the day and then I take the 5:30 later around 7:30 pm, it seems to be a game.

So my question is, do you think I am still offloading the oxalates and it will it better over the next couple of days or weeks or do you think I am just not going to get relief and it was the tramadol all along giving me the relief?

I am using a tens machine and compression machine at night to help alleviate the RLS and the jumpy legs which just restarted now that I am not on tramadol.

I want this low oxalate, low fluoride diet to work so bad!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks everyone ~ Mel

[Rustsmith]

You didn't say how often you are taking the hydrocodone, but part of the problem is that your doctor didn't do the calculation to covert the strength of your tramadol to hydrocodone. 5mg of hydrocodone is 5 morphine equivalents. 100mg of tramadol is 10 morphine equivalents.

So, even if you are taking the Norco 3 times/day, you are only getting 50% of the strength of meds that you had with tramadol.

[Macadwel]

Hi Steve,

I am taking the hydro three times a day and no I don't think he converted the strength properly! I am glad you validated it for me.
Best,
Mel

[Deb212]

Hi Macadwel
I'm so sorry to hear you are suffering. I have found relief on a (very) low oxalate eating plan. However, I do still occasionally suffer from RLS but I don't know why. I weened myself off all meds before finding out about oxalates so I don't think I can help you there, but I might be able to help you with the oxalate part. I avoid almost all processed foods. I read labels as if they were the Bible. Be aware that there are a lot of ingredients that will not show up on a label though, like MSG which is often disguised as "natural flavoring". I only use refined white sugar or maple syrup as a sweetener. I avoid grains but occasionally eat white rice. I eat limited amounts of low oxalate vegetables and fruits. I eat most meats and fish, but no processed meats like hot dogs or lunchmeat. In the beginning of my low ox journey I ate a lot of dairy including cheeses and yogurt. The dairy is supposed to help your body expel oxalates. I don't eat as much dairy now as I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (in remission) and dairy is not good for that. I use butter if I need a cooking oil. I drink one cup of coffee in the morning and purified water with electrolytes added back in. Sometimes I drink lemon water. I buy organic whenever I can. I found this book by Sally Norton helpful in tweaking my eating plan, which is something I am always doing. https://sallyknorton.com/toxic_superfoods/ I hope this helps. Feel free to ask me any questions. I'll try to help as best I can.
My best, Deb

[Macadwel]

Hi Deb,
Thank you for responding! Currently, I am eating mostly whole foods, and mostly meat and fresh organic foods only. I do eat some frozen vegetables that are organic too. The only processed foods I am eating are rice crispies, marshmallows and rice as they came in on the low oxalate list, and I either ate breakfast with the rice crispies or made rice crispy treats as I needed to have something sweet and I use the rice as a starch. I also would eat vanilla ice cream. Everything else was prepared by me. I am having one cup of coffee each morning with white sugar and organic half and half. I just switched to organic milk, organic half-and-half, and organic yogurt. I don't like dairy so adding in more dairy has been difficult but I am trying to eat at least one yogurt a day and have cereal with milk at least once a day.

Should I stop the rice crispies and marshmallows? I can make vanilla pudding from organic milk and organic eggs which I could eat and that would cover the sweets and dairy.

When I was on the tramadol the rice crispies and marshmallows did not bother me, so I did not think it would with the Hydro. I think it is more about not getting the same amount of morphine equivalents causing a lot of the issues with the RLS break threw.

I am eating a lot of organic meat and some organic veg but not a lot, I will increase the organic dairy and see if that helps!

I will let you know how the next couple of nights goes.

Best ~ Mel

[Deb212]

Hi Mel,
If it were me, I'd stop eating Rice Krispies for a few days and see if it makes a difference. My info says Rice Krispies have 12 oxalates per 1/2 cup. That's not a lot, but combined with other oxalates during the day it could add up. Theoretically the milk you consume with the cereal should help. The marshmallows shouldn't be a problem oxalate-wise, but Jim (notnowdad) avoids gelatin and usually marshmallows contain gelatin. There is a brand of marshmallows out there called Dandies that does not contain gelatin.
Let us know how it goes.
Deb

[Macadwel]

Hi Deb,
Yes, I remember Jim @notnowdad mentioning something about avoiding gelatin, I will cut out the marshmallows and see how that goes, and the rice crispy cereal as I did not know they had that much oxalates per 1/2 cup.

I ordered the book you mentioned it should arrive today! And I will start reading it tonight.

I will see how my sleep is tomorrow night and the next couple after cutting out all non-processed foods and all not organic non-oxalates today! Hoping it goes well.

On another note, I was able to make an appointment with one of the doctors on the RLS.ORG site at their RLS Centers! I don't get to see them until May but I am hopeful they will be able to help with my medical side of the rls, or at least straighten out my medicine.

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated! ~ Mel

[Deb212]

Hi Mel,
I forgot to tell you I also peel any fruits or veggies that I can and I boil vegetables. Plant toxins are often higher in the skins and seeds and boiling is supposed to lower the oxalate content even more.
Hope this helps.
Deb

[Macadwel]

Deb,
That is a good idea. Most of my veggies are in the organic steam in the microwave bags as organic fresh is so expensive right now, but I will make sure to consider boiling.

I did notice a difference during the day without eating processed foods yesterday, but not at night. I know it was only 24 hours but at least the day is bearable I am hoping today is bearable too.

I have also switched my toothpaste to baking soda to ensure I am not getting any fluoride through brushing my teeth. My next step is to look into low-fluoride vegetables to see which are the best to eat, while I am weeding out the low oxalates, as I read that Jim had mentioned he thought his success may have had something to do with too much fluoride in his diet.

I received my book yesterday and will start to read it this weekend, it is a little thicker than I thought! I saw some good recipes to start with and some good ideas for going from high, to medium, to low oxalates. I think I am already at the low oxalates though, I am going to keep increasing low oxalates and not go backward.

Thanks for following up, your help and everyone else on this forum are amazing and you really help me get through this terrible unknown disease, Mel

[Macadwel]

Hi all,
Over the past four weeks, the first three weeks, I was not sleeping due to the new hydros, I added magnesium supplements at night to help with sleep and added an antihistamine to help me sleep at night. The antihistamine is a double-edged sword as it has increased my RLS a little bit at night, but I am sleeping. This past week I have started to sleep more and feel better during the day.

As for the diet, I have been following the low oxalate low fluoride diet for several weeks now and it has helped immensely. I can tell when I have not kept to my diet and added a few non-oxalate items, like a few extra mashed potatoes, as my RLS goes nuts! During the day I have been able to stop the 100mg pregabalin in the mornings and I only need one or two 75mg during the day. I have stabilized my Hydros and am able to cut one in half for the daytime and then use the other two and a half for the night. The nights have gotten better, and my RLS is not as severe but seems manageable. I use my tens machine or sit in a chair with a the TV on low to take my mind off the RLS to help me sleep. I am not as tired at work this week, which is a good thing. I have also not had to take the extra hydros I have been taking at night too, which I was not supposed to be taking. I am hoping to switch to a different pain med though as I want to get off the antihistamine.

I did add magnesium to my nightly diet, 250 mg to help with sleep, and I feel this is helping.

Also, I was able to find a new doctor from the RLS.org site, Dr. Durphy, who is a neurologist in movement disorders and specializes in RLS, and I was able to get in with her in May. I am hoping she follows the research of the other doctors do on this site.

That is my update for now, hope all is going well for you all too! Best ~ Mel