STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
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CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

I'll first post the results of the study. I'll then include some background information about Red Light Therapy for those that are interested.

On a personal note, I have been using red light therapy for a few years now, and it is truly miraculous.

Because heals at a cellular level by enlivening chromosomes, there is literally no medical or physical condition that it can't help.

The bonus is, if you have multiple medical conditions, your red light sessions can help them all.

There are HUNDREDS of scientific studies showing the incredible healing powers of red light.

The larger sized / full body panels are expensive, but I believe an investment you will never regret.

For those on a tight budget, there are smaller travel size panels that you can use for direct healing.

In the world of research Red Light Therapy is called "photobiomodulation." So if you want to check out some of the studies it would be better to use that word in your search. ie: "photobiomodulation ibs" "photobiomodulation fibromyalgia" "photobiomodulation depression" etc.

THE STUDY:

"RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT: AN ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT OPTION"
Mitchell UH, Myrer JW, Johnson AW, Hilton SC. 2011

This study indicated the potential of near-infrared light as an alternative treatment option for RLS. Specifically, the research found that treatment with near-infrared light led to a reduction in symptoms associated with RLS, which was evident in the decreased International Restless Legs Scale (IRLS) scores.

"After 4 weeks of treatment the treatment group had a significantly greater improvement in restless legs syndrome symptoms than the control group; improvement was still significant after 4 weeks post treatment compared to baseline.

Treatment with near-infrared light does decrease symptoms associated with RLS as demonstrated in lower IRLS scores.

This new noninvasive method of treating RLS might become a valuable new management option.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20977377

There is another successful study here, but with only 1 subject. Still very promising results.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2936319/


What is Red Light Therapy?

Red Light Therapy (RLT), often referred to as photobiomodulation or low-level laser therapy, is a non-invasive therapeutic technique that harnesses the power of specific wavelengths of light to stimulate cellular activity. This burgeoning therapy, which has gained prominence over the past few decades, offers a range of potential health benefits with minimal side effects.

The therapeutic use of light dates back to ancient civilizations, where sunlight was employed for various healing practices. Fast-forward to the 1960s, when Hungarian scientist Endre Mester stumbled upon the concept of using lasers to stimulate faster hair growth in mice. This serendipitous discovery marked the beginning of modern phototherapy, and research into its potential applications grew exponentially.

At its core, RLT operates on a cellular level. The red and near-infrared light wavelengths penetrate the skin, reaching the mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cell. Here’s how it works:

Photon Absorption: Mitochondria absorb photons from red light, which leads to a series of biological reactions.
Increased ATP Production: One primary outcome is the increased production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the primary energy currency of the cell. More ATP means cells can function more efficiently and repair damage more effectively.
Reduction of Oxidative Stress: RLT helps reduce oxidative stress and increase the production of antioxidants, which play a crucial role in reducing cellular damage.
Enhanced Blood Flow: By promoting the dilation of local capillaries, RLT improves blood flow, ensuring better nutrient and oxygen delivery to the treated areas.

Given its cellular benefits, RLT has been employed in various medical and cosmetic scenarios:

Skin Health: RLT is celebrated for its anti-aging properties, reducing wrinkles, and improving overall skin tone.
Wound Healing: By promoting collagen production and enhancing blood flow, RLT can speed up the healing process.
Pain Relief: It’s been employed to address joint pain, inflammation, and even conditions like carpal tunnel syndrome.
Mental Well-being: Some studies suggest RLT might play a role in combating depression and seasonal affective disorder.

As the scientific community continues to uncover the myriad of potential benefits RLT offers, its applicability in addressing conditions like Restless Legs Syndrome becomes an exciting frontier to explore. The convergence of ancient wisdom with modern science paints a hopeful picture for those seeking holistic and effective treatments.

How Can Red Light Therapy Help RLS?

Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS) sufferers are continually seeking effective, non-invasive, and drug-free treatment alternatives. Over the years, traditional treatments have been complemented by newer interventions, among which Red Light Therapy (RLT) or, more specifically, near-infrared light, has emerged as a promising option. Let’s delve into the scientific findings that support the potential benefits of RLT for RLS.

The Science Behind RLT’s Potential Benefits for RLS:
• Improved Blood Circulation: RLT enhances blood circulation, ensuring cells receive ample oxygen and nutrients. Improved blood flow can potentially alleviate RLS symptoms.
• Cellular Regeneration and Reduced Inflammation: With the boost in ATP production, cells can repair themselves more effectively, while the anti-inflammatory effects can provide direct relief to discomforted leg muscles.
• Relief of Muscle and Nerve Pain: The therapeutic effects of RLT, such as reduction in oxidative stress and enhanced blood flow, can provide relief from the nerve and muscle pain frequently associated with RLS.
With the above scientific findings and the known mechanisms of RLT, there’s increasing hope that this non-invasive treatment could serve as an effective solution for those grappling with RLS. As always, it’s vital for individuals to consult with healthcare professionals to determine if RLT is the right choice for their specific situation.
Advantages of Using Red Light Therapy for RLS
Red Light Therapy (RLT) offers a host of advantages, particularly when considered as a potential supportive treatment option for Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS). As this non-invasive therapeutic intervention continues to gain traction in the medical community, let’s explore the benefits that make it stand out:
• Non-Invasive Treatment: RLT doesn’t require surgical procedures or injections. It’s a simple exposure to specific wavelengths of light, making it a non-intrusive method to address RLS symptoms.
• Potential for Faster Recovery: RLT has been shown to boost circulation and stimulate cellular regeneration. For RLS sufferers, this might mean quicker relief from episodes and potentially shorter recovery times after severe symptoms.
• Holistic Benefits: Beyond addressing RLS, RLT has been linked to a range of health benefits, including improved skin health, wound healing, and anti-inflammatory effects. Thus, users might experience holistic wellness benefits beyond just RLS relief.
• Scientifically Supported: Numerous studies, including those by Mitchell UH and colleagues, have provided evidence supporting the efficacy of RLT in reducing RLS symptoms. This scientific backing lends credibility to the therapy.
• Cost-Effective in the Long Run: Though the initial investment in an RLT device might seem steep, it can be cost-effective over time, especially when compared to long-term medication costs or repeated clinical visits.
• Enhances Sleep Quality: By potentially alleviating RLS symptoms, RLT can contribute to better sleep quality. Improved sleep has a cascading positive effect on overall health, mood, and daily functioning.
Embracing Red Light Therapy for RLS offers a harmonious blend of science and convenience. As with any treatment, it’s essential for RLS sufferers to consult with healthcare professionals to ascertain if RLT aligns with their unique needs and circumstances.
Red Light Therapy (RLT) stands at the forefront of non-invasive, drug-free interventions, offering a beacon of hope for those grappling with the discomfort and distress of Restless Legs Syndrome (RLS). Grounded in scientific research and backed by a growing number of positive testimonials, RLT’s potential in alleviating RLS symptoms is becoming increasingly evident.
In an era where holistic and non-pharmacological treatments are gaining momentum, Red Light Therapy shines bright, illuminating possibilities for improved health and relief from conditions like RLS. The future, it seems, is bright and therapeutic.

Read the full article here:
https://www.spectraredlight.com/red-lig ... uUZ3WpPC3Y

Frunobulax
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Frunobulax »

CalmLegsJL wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:36 am
Because heals at a cellular level by enlivening chromosomes, there is literally no medical or physical condition that it can't help.
And I'm sure you can back up this claim using scientific, peer reviewed studies?

I do not doubt that it will help certain conditions, but to me this claim sounds like complete and utter nonsense.

CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

Frunobulax wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:08 am
CalmLegsJL wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:36 am
Because heals at a cellular level by enlivening chromosomes, there is literally no medical or physical condition that it can't help.
And I'm sure you can back up this claim using scientific, peer reviewed studies?

I do not doubt that it will help certain conditions, but to me this claim sounds like complete and utter nonsense.
You don't know what causes Restless Legs so how could you possibly know whether red light therapy would help or not? It has proven to be effective with dozens of other conditions. RLS is not that unique.

The University of Utah Medical Center undergoing a long term study based on the following ...

"PBM therapy has been used for decades to reduce joint inflammation, promote the healing of tissues and nerves, and treat pain. More recently, research has shown the potential benefits of PBM therapy in addressing brain disorders."
https://medicine.utah.edu/neurology/res ... uiting/pbm

Here are some other studies by researchers covering a wide spectrum of medical conditions.

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78. Yamany A.A., Sayed H.M. Effect of low level laser therapy on neurovascular function of diabetic peripheral neuropathy. J. Adv. Res. 2012;3:21–28. doi: 10.1016/j.jare.2011.02.009.
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81. Photobiomodulation using low-level laser therapy (LLLT) for patients with chronic traumatic brain injury: a randomized controlled trial study protocol
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84. Lalla R.V., Bowen J., Barasch A., Elting L., Epstein J., Keefe D.M., McGuire D.B., Migliorati C., Nicolatou-Galitis O., Peterson D.E., et al. MASCC/ISOO clinical practice guidelines for the management of mucositis secondary to cancer therapy. Cancer. 2014;120:1453–1461. doi: 10.1002/cncr.28592.
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86. Genc G., Kocadereli İ., Tasar F., Kilinc K., El S., Sarkarati B. Effect of low-level laser therapy (LLLT) on orthodontic tooth movement. Lasers Med. Sci. 2013;28:41–47. doi: 10.1007/s10103-012-1059-6.
87. Kim S.-J., Kang Y.-G., Park J.-H., Kim E.-C., Park Y.-G. Effects of low-intensity laser therapy on periodontal tissue remodeling during relapse and retention of orthodontically moved teeth. Lasers Med. Sci. 2013;28:325–333. doi: 10.1007/s10103-012-1146-8.
88. Aras M.H., Güngörmüş M. The Effect of Low-Level Laser Therapy on Trismus and Facial Swelling Following Surgical Extraction of a Lower Third Molar. Photomed. Laser Surg. 2009;27:21–24. doi: 10.1089/pho.2008.2258.
89. Faria Amorim J.C., De Sousa G.R., Silveira L.D.B., Prates R.A., Pinotti M., Ribeiro M.S. Clinical Study of the Gingiva Healing after Gingivectomy and Low-Level Laser Therapy. Photomed. Laser Surg. 2006;24:588–594. doi: 10.1089/pho.2006.24.588.
90. Han M., Fang H., Li Q.-L., Cao Y., Xia R., Zhang Z.-H. Effectiveness of Laser Therapy in the Management of Recurrent Aphthous Stomatitis: A Systematic Review. Scientifica (Cairo) 2016;2016:1–12. doi: 10.1155/2016/9062430.
91. Jijin M.J., Rakaraddi M., Pai J., Jaishankar H.P., Krupashankar R., Kavitha A.P., Anjana R., Shobha R. Low-level laser therapy versus 5% amlexanox: A comparison of treatment effects in a cohort of patients with minor aphthous ulcers. Oral Surg. Oral Med. Oral Pathol. Oral Radiol. 2016;121:269–273. doi: 10.1016/j.oooo.2015.11.021.
92. Tezel A., Kara C., Balkaya V., Orbak R. An Evaluation of Different Treatments for Recurrent Aphthous Stomatitis and Patient Perceptions: Nd:YAG Laser versus Medication. Photomed. Laser Surg. 2009;27:101–106. doi: 10.1089/pho.2008.2274.
93. Stona P., da Silva Viana E., dos Santos Pires L., Blessmann Weber J.B., Floriani Kramer P. Recurrent Labial Herpes Simplex in Pediatric Dentistry: Low-level Laser Therapy as a Treatment Option. Int. J. Clin. Pediatr. Dent. 2014;7:140–143. doi: 10.5005/jp-journals-10005-1252.
94. Bello-Silva M.S., de Freitas P.M., Aranha A.C.C., Lage-Marques J.L., Simões A., de Paula Eduardo C. Low- and High-Intensity Lasers in the Treatment of Herpes Simplex Virus 1 Infection. Photomed. Laser Surg. 2010;28:135–139. doi: 10.1089/pho.2008.2458.
95. Merigo E., Rocca J.-P., Pinheiro A.L.B., Fornaini C. Photobiomodulation Therapy in Oral Medicine: A Guide for the Practitioner with Focus on New Possible Protocols. Photobiomodul. Photomed. Laser Surg. 2019;37:669–680. doi: 10.1089/photob.2019.4624.
96. Gobbo M., Verzegnassi F., Ronfani L., Zanon D., Melchionda F., Bagattoni S., Majorana A., Bardellini E., Mura R., Piras A., et al. Multicenter randomized, double-blind controlled trial to evaluate the efficacy of laser therapy for the treatment of severe oral mucositis induced by chemotherapy in children: laMPO RCT. Pediatr. Blood Cancer. 2018;65:e27098. doi: 10.1002/pbc.27098.
97. Cafaro A., Arduino P.G., Massolini G., Romagnoli E., Broccoletti R. Clinical evaluation of the efficiency of low-level laser therapy for oral lichen planus: A prospective case series. Lasers Med. Sci. 2014;29:185–190. doi: 10.1007/s10103-013-1313-6.
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100. Sulka A., Mierzwa-Dudek D., Dominiak M. 13 Years of Own Experience with the Use of Laser Biostimulation in Oral Surgery. Dent. Med. Probl. 2007;44:37–44.

Frunobulax
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Frunobulax »

CalmLegsJL wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:32 am
Frunobulax wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:08 am
CalmLegsJL wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:36 am
Because heals at a cellular level by enlivening chromosomes, there is literally no medical or physical condition that it can't help.
And I'm sure you can back up this claim using scientific, peer reviewed studies?

I do not doubt that it will help certain conditions, but to me this claim sounds like complete and utter nonsense.
You don't know what causes Restless Legs so how could you possibly know whether red light therapy would help or not?
You claimed that it helps with any and all medical or physical conditions. I never heard such claims made by anyone except snake oil merchants.

CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

Frunobulax wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:34 pm
CalmLegsJL wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:32 am
Frunobulax wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:08 am


And I'm sure you can back up this claim using scientific, peer reviewed studies?

I do not doubt that it will help certain conditions, but to me this claim sounds like complete and utter nonsense.
You don't know what causes Restless Legs so how could you possibly know whether red light therapy would help or not?
You claimed that it helps with any and all medical or physical conditions. I never heard such claims made by anyone except snake oil merchants.
I'm not sure what your deal is? There are hundreds of studies for you to check out.

Why not do some research on your own before trashing my post as quackery?

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 6515
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Rustsmith »

First my experience with Red Light laser treatment. About seven years ago, I experienced a mild hamstring pull about six weeks before a marathon that would run every year. The injury wasn't severe, but it would have prevented me from finishing the 26 mile course. I knew a doctor who was also a runner and who had a reputation for getting athletes back out in quick order. I saw him three times/week for the five weeks before the race. He threw every treatment that he had at my leg. Every time, his final treatment was red light laser. He told me that he didn't think that it would help, but that it wouldn't hurt to try. With his help I was able to hobble through and finish the race but I felt that many of the other treatments that he did, especially the E-stim and an early treatment with an iontophoresis treatment with an anti-inflammatory med, were far more effective. As a result, I was not sold on the idea that the laser did anything except extend my time on his table.

As for the reluctance that you see in many messages on the discussion board, especially when someone uses the word "cure" stems from all the quacks true to see their treatment to RLS patients. There is one product whose name infers that it is a cure for RLS. However, if you read the fine print on the bottle there is a line that says "not for use in the treatment of Restless Legs Syndrome". When you read the list of ingredients, you find things like iron sulfate and herbs health food stores push as treatments for insomnia.

The other sticky topic has been doctors who claim to "cure RLS" by performing vein surgery to the legs. The use of the word "cure" along with RLS is always a red flag for most all of us.

The form of the vein treatment varies, but usually is a procedure that is common for the treatment of varicose veins. Yes, there are people who benefit from this type of surgery when they have leg pain due to varicose veins, but claiming that it is a cure for RLS is questionable. If you read through the literature, there are plenty of publications to "prove" their point. However, the authors are usually doctors who specialize in varicose vein surgery and the number of individuals in the study is always limited. To me, there is a conflict of interest in almost all of those publications, which also usually end up in specialty journals for the varicose vein doctors. I have communicated with a number of people who have had this done. Most say that it was a waste of money and that they should have known better but that the doctor's literature seemed so convincing.

I will finish with my experience as an engineering professor who is continually reading published articles relevant to my field of expertise. These articles come from around the world and often require translation into English. Often, I will see a title that looks extremely interesting but from an author that I do not recognize. Occasionally I am surprised and pleased that I have found someone new in my field whose work is groundbreaking and therefore something to forward to my grad students. However, the normal result is that the author is a faculty member of an almost unknown foreign college (not university) who has published work in an obscure journal in order to build his/her list of publications. At almost all universities around the world, faculty members are expected to publish frequently, often as many as 15 to 20 papers/year. The saying for new professors is "Publish or Perish". Because of this, there are many obscure journals that are essentially vanity presses. Pay them a certain fee and they will publish anything you want even if it is essentially a copy of something that has already been printed but with a different title. There are also universities that will give a PhD to anyone who writes something and gets it published, even if it is in one of these vanity press journals. Almost all of these articles of questionable value when it comes to contributing to our collected knowledge and they are usually loaded with a large number of reference articles. The only problem is that these reference articles are usually self-citations, which are of dubious value or are citations to some who turns out to be a colleague who has published in another similarly questionable sources. The list is long so that it appears to be impressive to a reader who is not highly familiar with that topic.
Steve

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

rvjimzhr1
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Medford, OR

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by rvjimzhr1 »

Thanks Steve for your studied response on this topic! It makes sense to me!

CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

rvjimzhr1 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:06 am
Thanks Steve for your studied response on this topic! It makes sense to me!
I agree that sometimes a translation can get muddled. However, as I said, the list I posted is a small sample of the available studies that can be read.

I think if someone is interested at all, the first thing to do is research what exactly is going on. What is red light therapy and why is it effective?

Find out why the most effective wavelengths are 660nm and 850nm, and then everything else builds on that.

There was a famous study conducted that provided really incredible results for athletes.

830 NM LIGHT-EMITTING DIODE (LED) PHOTOTHERAPY SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED RETURN-TO-PLAY IN INJURED UNIVERSITY ATHLETES: A PILOT STUDY
John Foley,corresponding author David B Vasily, Jeanna Bradle, Catharine Rudio, and R Glen Calderhead

Results: A full set of treatment sessions and follow-up data was able to be recorded in 65 informed and consenting subjects who achieved pain relief on the VAS of up to 6 points in from 2–6 sessions. The average LED-mediated RTP in the 65 subjects was significantly shorter at 9.6 days, compared with the mean anticipated RTP of 19.23 days (p = 0.0066, paired two-tailed Student's t-test). A subjective satisfaction survey was carried out among the 112 students with injuries incurred from January to May, 2015. Eighty-eight (78.5%) were either very satisfied or satisfied, and only 8 (7.2%) were dissatisfied.

Conclusions: For any motivated athlete, RTP may be the most important factor postinjury based on the resolution of pain and inflammation and repair to tissue trauma. 830 nm LED phototherapy significantly and safely reduced the RTP in dedicated university athletes over a wide range of injuries with no adverse events. One limitation of the present study was the subjective nature of the assessments, and the lack of any control groups. However, further controlled studies are warranted to enable confirmation and generalization of the very good results in the present study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846838

It's not pure science but is very hopeful.

Yankiwi
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:20 am
Location: West Coast, South Island, New Zealand

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Yankiwi »

You don't know what causes Restless Legs …
Actually, scientists are certain brain iron deficiency causes Restless Legs.

Frunobulax
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Frunobulax »

CalmLegsJL wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:18 am
830 NM LIGHT-EMITTING DIODE (LED) PHOTOTHERAPY SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED RETURN-TO-PLAY IN INJURED UNIVERSITY ATHLETES: A PILOT STUDY
John Foley,corresponding author David B Vasily, Jeanna Bradle, Catharine Rudio, and R Glen Calderhead
I will not rule out the possibility of any therapy, including near infrared, without having a deep dive into the topic. If you have been around this forum for a while then you know that I am very critical towards drugs (especially dopamine agonists) and my primary focus is nutrition and lifestyle, despite having to take opioids. And let me get one thing clear: I'm totally fine if you say "Listen, there is something that might help. The evidence is weak, or maybe there is no evidence at all, but this is why I think it might be worth a try." But that's not what you do, you claim the evidence is there, and name studies that (from the title) haven't even the slightest relevance for RLS. And I'm sorry to say but this raises all kinds of red flags for me.

It's fundamental that we use a solid scientific basis for judging potential treatments. There are a ton of quacks out there making wild promises on no scientific basis at all, and many of us have encountered at the very least patients that lost a sh*tload of money to these quacks. (All of these quacks have a long list of studies that they claim back up their treatment.) Claiming that a treatment is the answer to all questions, you just have to spend a few thousand dollars (as I believe near infrared devices cost) is unfortunately something that is typical for quacks and completely unheard of for serious scientists. There is one guy in my hometown that promises "implant acupuncture" would cure RLS, and he surgically implants needles that, according to his website, fix 100% of RLS. The problem is that not a single patients in the real world can confirm that, but they all can confirm that their wallet is a few thousand bucks lighter.

So we need a way to judge your claims. And unfortunately you keep moving the goal posts. First you claim that this treatment can help all and any health condition, then you throw 100 studies at us which would take weeks to verify (if they're available without a paywall at all), then you suddenly name a study about injured athletes as evidence. I'm with Steve that medical literature is in a horrible state, because the correct tools (like RCTs) are often used in a very manipulative way to get the results that someone with deep pockets wants. (I strongly recommend this talk by Jason Fung on this topic: https://youtu.be/z6IO2DZjOkY?si=CIFBn5bZ9Kv80hl5.) So you can't just read a study (I'm talking about a study and not the abstract) and know what's in there. You must (a) read the methods and check if any shenanigans are going on with the field of participants, (b) know the field very well to see any anomalies, especially in the methods (for example proxy parameters like cholesterol are used while hard evidence like all-cause mortality is ignored, as often seen in nutrition), (c) know who pays the authors (there is always a high risk that results are skewed) and (d) verify all statistics (often from the supplemental materials), because it's quite common that studies claim outcomes that simply aren't backed by the numbers (in a statistically significant way). I will have an opinion on a study on RLS, or maybe a few, but I can't comment on a study where injured athletes are treated because I don't know anything about that.

I see two possibilities.

(1) We get back to RLS. You name 2, 3 or maybe 4 studies (link or DOI) that you think are the best evidence that RLT/near-infrared may help for Restless Legs, studies that are accessible in full and not behind a paywall (possibly via sci-hub). I'll be happy to check them out and tell you what I think. NO references to websites of manufacturers of these devices please, sorry I won't go there.

(2) We end this discussion because it went off topic.

CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

Frunobulax wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:50 am
CalmLegsJL wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:18 am
830 NM LIGHT-EMITTING DIODE (LED) PHOTOTHERAPY SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED RETURN-TO-PLAY IN INJURED UNIVERSITY ATHLETES: A PILOT STUDY
John Foley,corresponding author David B Vasily, Jeanna Bradle, Catharine Rudio, and R Glen Calderhead
I will not rule out the possibility of any therapy, including near infrared, without having a deep dive into the topic. If you have been around this forum for a while then you know that I am very critical towards drugs (especially dopamine agonists) and my primary focus is nutrition and lifestyle, despite having to take opioids. And let me get one thing clear: I'm totally fine if you say "Listen, there is something that might help. The evidence is weak, or maybe there is no evidence at all, but this is why I think it might be worth a try." But that's not what you do, you claim the evidence is there, and name studies that (from the title) haven't even the slightest relevance for RLS. And I'm sorry to say but this raises all kinds of red flags for me.

It's fundamental that we use a solid scientific basis for judging potential treatments. There are a ton of quacks out there making wild promises on no scientific basis at all, and many of us have encountered at the very least patients that lost a sh*tload of money to these quacks. (All of these quacks have a long list of studies that they claim back up their treatment.) Claiming that a treatment is the answer to all questions, you just have to spend a few thousand dollars (as I believe near infrared devices cost) is unfortunately something that is typical for quacks and completely unheard of for serious scientists. There is one guy in my hometown that promises "implant acupuncture" would cure RLS, and he surgically implants needles that, according to his website, fix 100% of RLS. The problem is that not a single patients in the real world can confirm that, but they all can confirm that their wallet is a few thousand bucks lighter.

So we need a way to judge your claims. And unfortunately you keep moving the goal posts. First you claim that this treatment can help all and any health condition, then you throw 100 studies at us which would take weeks to verify (if they're available without a paywall at all), then you suddenly name a study about injured athletes as evidence. I'm with Steve that medical literature is in a horrible state, because the correct tools (like RCTs) are often used in a very manipulative way to get the results that someone with deep pockets wants. (I strongly recommend this talk by Jason Fung on this topic: https://youtu.be/z6IO2DZjOkY?si=CIFBn5bZ9Kv80hl5.) So you can't just read a study (I'm talking about a study and not the abstract) and know what's in there. You must (a) read the methods and check if any shenanigans are going on with the field of participants, (b) know the field very well to see any anomalies, especially in the methods (for example proxy parameters like cholesterol are used while hard evidence like all-cause mortality is ignored, as often seen in nutrition), (c) know who pays the authors (there is always a high risk that results are skewed) and (d) verify all statistics (often from the supplemental materials), because it's quite common that studies claim outcomes that simply aren't backed by the numbers (in a statistically significant way). I will have an opinion on a study on RLS, or maybe a few, but I can't comment on a study where injured athletes are treated because I don't know anything about that.

I see two possibilities.

(1) We get back to RLS. You name 2, 3 or maybe 4 studies (link or DOI) that you think are the best evidence that RLT/near-infrared may help for Restless Legs, studies that are accessible in full and not behind a paywall (possibly via sci-hub). I'll be happy to check them out and tell you what I think. NO references to websites of manufacturers of these devices please, sorry I won't go there.

(2) We end this discussion because it went off topic.
I'm actually building towards something here.

Inflammation is the cause of pretty much every medical condition in existence.

That would be easy to find out. Just do a search for "<name of medical condition> and <inflammation>"

RLS is not an exception to that truth.

Red Light Therapy is extremely helpful in healing inflammation.

So eventually, this post will have a deeper connection to RLS healing.

I'm just posting stuff with positive results. Yet people keep tearing into these studies because they're not "scientific" enough.

Here's the truth.

How scientific is this?

1. The people on this board are taking a medication that wasn't created for the condition that they suffer from. It just happens to help lessen the symptoms.

2. The drug companies that create the medications have no idea what causes restless legs.

3. The doctors that prescribe the medication have no idea what causes RLS. They distribute what seems to be the most appropriate medication at the time.

4. People suffer from all sorts of terrible side-effects including augmentation from these drugs.

5. People are told that their RLS is genetic, so they're stuck with it (they are not).

6. People are told their RLS is PRIMARY or SECONDARY (RLS does not cause secondary conditions and it is not caused by secondary conditions .... both are caused by inflammation).

In future posts I will provide scientific evidence to support all of the above.

Again, circling back to natural remedies to deal with the inflammation, which is what this board is supposed to be about.

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by Rustsmith »

Although your personal doctor may not be familiar with the causes of RLS, that does not mean that the causes are not known. A deficiency of iron in the subtantia nigra portion of the brain has long been known to be a cause of RLS. What is not known and probably varies between individuals is why this deficiency exists when serum iron levels often are not low. Further, recent research at the NIH by Dr Sergei Ferre has shown the mechanism of how low iron causes the adenosine receptors in the substantia nigra to reduce their functioning and how this causes the dopamine and glutamate receptors to lock up. The malfunctioning dopamine receptors cause our movement issues and the glutamate receptors cause our insomnia problems. Dr Ferre has even shown why opioids help bypass this malfunctioning receptors to provide relief (which is not subject to augmentation). Clinical trials of drugs to address the adenosine problem looked promising and could lead to the development of an entirely new class of meds to treat RLS. The problem is that adenosine is also very involved in the heart, so finding a drug that works on RLS without causing heart problems could be difficult.

As for genetics, GWAS studies have shown a significant correlation between over 20 genes and RLS. GWAS studies do not show why the genetics cause a predisposition for a disease, just a correlation. And I emphasize that genes do not generally cause a disease like RLS (some do), they just increase the chances of its occurrence. One of the genes with the highest correlation is MEIS1, which is part of a series of genes that encode proteins to safely transport metal ions through the body and across cell boundaries. It has not yet been proven (the research is currently being done), but it makes sense that if MEIS1 is encoding a protein that is inefficiently transporting iron across the blood brain barrier, that could be a cause for some (but not all) of us who have good iron levels. Many people who are anemic or have very low ferritin levels are being very effectively treated with iron supplementation. This isn't a cure, because they need continual help if they anemia wasn't caused by something identifiable, like surgery or severe menstrual bleeding, but it has been proven so effective that it is now recommended as the first tier treatment for RLS.
Steve

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

CalmLegsJL
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:44 pm

Re: STUDY: NEAR-INFRARED LIGHT DECREASES RLS SYMPTOMS

Post by CalmLegsJL »

Rustsmith wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:59 pm
Although your personal doctor may not be familiar with the causes of RLS, that does not mean that the causes are not known. A deficiency of iron in the subtantia nigra portion of the brain has long been known to be a cause of RLS. What is not known and probably varies between individuals is why this deficiency exists when serum iron levels often are not low. Further, recent research at the NIH by Dr Sergei Ferre has shown the mechanism of how low iron causes the adenosine receptors in the substantia nigra to reduce their functioning and how this causes the dopamine and glutamate receptors to lock up. The malfunctioning dopamine receptors cause our movement issues and the glutamate receptors cause our insomnia problems. Dr Ferre has even shown why opioids help bypass this malfunctioning receptors to provide relief (which is not subject to augmentation). Clinical trials of drugs to address the adenosine problem looked promising and could lead to the development of an entirely new class of meds to treat RLS. The problem is that adenosine is also very involved in the heart, so finding a drug that works on RLS without causing heart problems could be difficult.

As for genetics, GWAS studies have shown a significant correlation between over 20 genes and RLS. GWAS studies do not show why the genetics cause a predisposition for a disease, just a correlation. And I emphasize that genes do not generally cause a disease like RLS (some do), they just increase the chances of its occurrence. One of the genes with the highest correlation is MEIS1, which is part of a series of genes that encode proteins to safely transport metal ions through the body and across cell boundaries. It has not yet been proven (the research is currently being done), but it makes sense that if MEIS1 is encoding a protein that is inefficiently transporting iron across the blood brain barrier, that could be a cause for some (but not all) of us who have good iron levels. Many people who are anemic or have very low ferritin levels are being very effectively treated with iron supplementation. This isn't a cure, because they need continual help if they anemia wasn't caused by something identifiable, like surgery or severe menstrual bleeding, but it has been proven so effective that it is now recommended as the first tier treatment for RLS.
In the future I'll be posting about epigenetics and the ability we have to change a gene's expression. We are no longer "stuck" with our genetic makeup.

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