marijuana stigma/guilt

[gymper]

I've been using requip for a while for RLS - that's medication #6 in things I've tried. Like the others, requip is becoming less effective and I find it harder to get to sleep and stay asleep. I end up waking up at 3 am with restless arms and have to do numerous sets of pushups to get back to sleep. If it's in the legs I'm screwed. And I wake up 2 hours later anyway again.

Going through my list of options, since I've tried pretty much everything else, I'm either onto narcotics are marijuana. Reading through the forums and since I have an addictive personality - I'm already a recovering alcoholic - I'm very afraid to take the narcotics. So I've made the difficult decision to use marijuana.

I'm in recovery though, so it's very strange. I feel alot of guilt. I would probably feel less guilty if I were taking percosets or clonopin. But in the end I know they would either stop working or I'd get addicted to them.

People in AA would think this is all some wild excuse to get high. They have a saying, "Nobody ever died from lack of sleep" and "everyone in early sobriety has trouble sleeping". Trouble is I had 10 years sober and still couldn't sleep with RLS and when this is a daily thing it ruins the quality of life. In fact I ended up drinking out of frustration one night when I hadn't slept in three days.

Even still I feel tons of guilt and have pretty much stopped going to meetings because I feel like I'm lying when I say I'm sober. I can't resolve it in my own head. I am sober - I don't use alcohol or drugs during the day. Right before I go to sleep I take two puffs of pot, and then if I wake up in the middle of the night I take a couple of puffs. A joint lasts me like a week. I still take the requip so I don't have to smoke as much pot. I use the pot as a supplement. It also helps with the nausea of the requip. I actually can't stand the high of pot so there's very little chance of me becoming addicted.

I wish there was a medication that just worked. RLS is the bane of my existence.

[woodsie357]

Hang in there!

I can't comment on drinking or smoking pot because I never have. I just want you to know there are others like you that suffer and have very bad quality of life.

Alcohol can make sleep worse or wake you up after a few hours. I'm sure you already know this.

I know of several people that use pot, and it's been known to help them. I don't know where you live. It would be nice if it was legal medically where you live and help with your guilt.

No one should have to suffer like we RLSers. And unless you've felt it you can't possibly understand how horrible it is.

Best of luck to you.

[Sojourner]

Guess I would urge you to discuss all options thoroughly with your doc. Perhaps, even with your addictive personality, some narcotic meds might be viable under close supervision. But, easy for me to say. That being said, if other options have been honestly considered and the potential for harm to yourself and others (physical as well as emotional) is pretty much nil, then I would not feel guilty if you needed and tried something off the board. However, owing up to the potential risk and consequences for yourself and others is also a consideration. Best of luck.

[Neco]

Hi,

I am a recovering opiate addict. I totally understand your pain.
You have to be realistic about this with yourself. You are dealing with a medical condition that the general public does not understand, and because of the way people are conditioned to think, don't really WANT to understand, unless it affect them personally.

Please do not feel guilty about smoking pot. It maybe be "illegal" but that doesn't make it immoral.. Laws are made by man, and mans logic is quite fallible. Remember alcohol was illegal for a time too. It all comes and goes with the times..

I am very concerned about your Requip experiences though. It sounds like you may possibly be experiencing augmentation. If this is the case you have GOT to get off Requip immediately. Augmentation is a process where over time your medication begins to have the opposite effect. Your symptoms come earlier and/or more ofen, and they increase in severity. If your RLS has spread to other parts of your body since starting Requip, this can be a warning sign, if accompanied by frequently earlier RLS that is more severe.

Unfortunately quitting Requip means an excrutiating periods where your RLS becomes worse regardless.. You can think of it like "Requip withdrawal". Some doctors who actually have a heart will prescribe opiates during this time, to combat the increased RLS and most experts recommend that they do this. Sometimes it can take a strong opiate as well, such as Oxycodone, or Methadone.

I have been on Methadone for almost 2 years now, and it totally changed my life, if not saved it. I have primary Refractory RLS. What that means is I don't respond appropriately to dopamine agonists (Requip and Mirapex) and my symptoms are present 24/7. Without meds I would be in constant agony and undoubtedly turn suicidal within a very short time span. Requip worked 50/50 and made me sick to my stomach. Mirapex caused augmentation on the first pill from the starter pack..

Unfortunately I have primarily been treated with opiates from the start, except for periodic breaks to try other medications. But I did develop an addiction. I don't blame the opiates though, I believe addiction is part of a persons chemical makeup. Some of us are just born to become addicted to certain substances.. Eventually I made the decision to start preassuring my doctor to put me onto Methadone, and the first few months I was still overmedicating a lot and running out.. I was even in so much day that one day I modified a prescription to get it filled early..

But my doctor stuck with me even after all this.. he ordered me back to counseling and I brought my dad into my treatment. He now holds my Methadone and I am rationed 15 - 20mgs a day (I started on 15 but it wasn't enough even after I leveled out from the self medication) . I have been doing so much better.

For the first time in my 26 years, I am sleeping properly at night. I almost never stay up late. I just picked up a 2nd job for additional income and overall I am doing so much better. I'm more stable emotionally, etc.


Please click the link in my signature for the Mayo Algorithm and show it to your doctor.. I am assuming he knows you are a recovering alcoholic, in which case I would ask him about prescribing you Methadone (its listed in the algorithm) or possibly Suboxone.. A couple people here have reported that as little as 0.5 to 1mg suboxone holds them over for the whole day. Make sure you are adamant about the Requip is making your symptoms worse and you are constantly waking in the middle of the night - and show him the section on Augmentation in the algorithm.. And tell him that for someone with addiction concerns, you think Methadone or suboxone would make sense, and point out that the Mayo recommends Methadone as one of the treatments..

Opiates are practically 100% effective in all cases in RLS, barring a very small minority of people who they don't help for some reason, or can't tolerate them for other reasons.

I hope this helps you.. don't feel guilty about the pot.. If your doc is a stickler I wouldn't tell him about the pot just yet, or at all..

[SquirmingSusan]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

It really sounds like you need to cut yourself some slack here. You're using a prescribed substance to treat a legitimate medical condition.

You also may need to find a way to worry less about what the other AA people think of your medical treatment. I've been around enough 12 step groups to know that people in them can be very rigid and dogmatic. You really do have to "take what you need and leave the rest." There is a lot of good that comes out of those programs, but you need to be selective about what you buy into. Do you have a sponsor you can trust? Of know of someone else, who is a bit farther along and more mature in the program than most, you can confide in? And beyond that, you don't need to volunteer information. Honesty is important to sobriety and all, but that doesn't mean you have to tell all. If asked, perhaps you can just say something like, "I'm being treated for a medical condition."

Oh, and lack of sleep DOES kill people, directly and indirectly. It kills faster than lack of food or water. And drowsy driving kills as well. So that saying is just plain stupid and wrong.

If you decide to go the narcotic route, some doctors nowadays are willing to prescribe methadone. It has an extremely low risk of addiction, although the body does get dependent on it, much like a diabetic is dependent on insulin. Of course, methadone has a stigma all its own.

[Aiken]

They have a saying, "Nobody ever died from lack of sleep"

Yeah. They die from severe blood loss after slitting their wrists.

You need to do what you need to do. If you do it with care, caution, and conscience, in order to improve your quality of life without ruining anyone else's, then it doesn't matter what someone else thinks.

[gymper]

Thanks everyone for the input. I really appreciate it. Zack 24/7 RLS - man I don't know how you survived. Glad everything's going well. From being on these forums I realize how serious this thing can be. I will definitely make another appointment with a specialist to see if augmentation is really going on. And Susan, I think you're right and I won't open up to those who wouldn't understand. It's really none of their business.
In the end I think the MJ will be short term. It really makes me paranoid.
Thanks again - I'll keep you updated.
--jim

[Neco]

I hope you have some luck getting better treatment, let us know how it goes.

[gymper]

Here's the update - I can't stand Marijuana. It works if I use enough of it, but then I get paranoid and in order not to end up in the ER I have to crash on some friends couch. I wish I liked the high. Last night I just didn't want to go through another sleepless night or have to use pot so I spent all night in the casino. RLS is expensive in more ways than one

[Polar Bear]

Hi Jim, I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time.

Please do as Zach says and take the Mayo clinic algorithm to your doc. I also have rls 24/7 but thankfully get some relief with requip and ultram. My relief is not 100% but when I read your posts I realise that I am doing not too badly.

You really do need doc's help with your meds and the algorithm is an excellent guide.

[SquirmingSusan]

Yeah, I remember in my college days, that marijuana paranoia could be pretty intense. Too bad it's not going to work for you. Please go to the doctor and see about what else you might be able to take. Some people have suggested tramadol, which works in the body like a narcotic, but isn't controlled, so doctors are more willing to prescribe it. And it can work quite well, with a lower potential for addiction. And if you're really worried about addiction, methadone is an option.

Hang in there. Something will work for you.

[gymper]

I'm going to see Dr. Buchfuhrer tomorrow. Finally seeing someone who specializes in RLS. I'm psyched.

[ViewsAskew]

Wow - that was fast! I hope it all works out well. I can't imagine how it could go wrong....and I sure hope it doesn't. I hope the actuality of Dr Buchfurer lives up to the hype here on the forum, lol. I've met him at conferences and found him very nice, extremely well informed, and not afraid to work with the medications needed to control RLS - all of those are good things.

[Polar Bear]

We will wait eagerly to hear how the appt goes with Dr B. I hope so much that you get the help you need for relief.

[doety]

I thought we'd get a report from the doc. Am I missing a page. Gymper!! Please let us know what he said.

I'm very familiar with AA, was married to someone in it for 8 years and I went to AlAnon. I think the Big Book has the most wonderful philosophy in it. However, there's some rigidity in the groups of people that's really scary. You do have to take what you like.

Do you know there are different kinds of marijuana? Some make you paranoic, others have different effects. Might be worth trying.

I take both Methadone and smoke 3 puffs of pot at night. So far, so good. Been going on two years and it works well.

I so hope you're doing better.