sativa vs. indica

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
badnights
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sativa vs. indica

Postby badnights » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:56 pm

Who can remember if it's sativa or indica marijuana which is good for RLS? One is good and the other makes it worse.

badnights
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Postby badnights » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:17 am

My son has done the experiment for me. Sativa strains are GOOD for RLS. Indica strains make RLS worse. This is backwards to what you might expect, since Indicas are the body-stone varieties and the ones that make you sleepy (supposedly) - RLS responds to indicas same as it responds to antihistamines that are supposed to make you sleepy. By going nuts. Sativas are the head-stones. They're the ones that will clear up the RLS.

See also the thread "just eat it... ". I wish that guy would reply

doety
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Postby doety » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:56 am

I wish I'd looked at this sooner. It doesn't make sense. I kept trying Indica and having bad results. Then I tried Sativa and I was calmed immediately. I'll continue to experiment and report back about my progress.
I guess this goes along with everything else that seems backwards with us. I always think I'm wired wrong. I drink coffee and fall asleep. I take antihistamines, which knock other people out, and I'm walking on the ceiling. I should have known that Indica wouldn't work. It would make too much sense.

My marijuana doctor is working with me, as I try to get off Methadone. And he didn't understand why marijuana didn't work. But I think I understand now.

doety
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CANCEL THAT

Postby doety » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:14 pm

Hellfire and damnation, as we say in the South. I do believe you could do anything once and it would work. You could put a tree branch under your bed, etc. I'm not sure why I keep going back to marijuana. I may think that I deserve to feel better, and I do, for a little while. Whatever is going on with me is getting worse, especially bad the last couple of weeks. I can't get through an hour of sleep. I will wake up two or three times during an hour, then finally just get up early, 4:30, whatever. I've heard you can't die from lack of sleep, but I'm wondering if that's true. I think my body/heart/etc. may give out from last of rest. I went out this morning, driving slowly and it didn't work. Had to come home from my volunteer job, I kept crying all the time. Yesterday I almost had two wrecks, from my carelessness. I think I've been to every kind of doctor, mainstream and not and I don't know what else do to. I'm not suicidal; this is just awful.

ViewsAskew
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Postby ViewsAskew » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:39 pm

I'm not saying one of them can help, but do you have the resources to go out of network and see one of the specialists such as Buchfuhrer or Rye or Early, etc.?

I am so sorry this is so difficult for you, Doety. I wish I had some knowledge that would we the key...or at least some words to salve the situation.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

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Polar Bear
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Postby Polar Bear » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:40 pm

Yea..... You can't die from lack of sleep....... so they say.... whoever 'they' are !!

I have just been officially diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, on top of everything else. The doc explained to me that there is the vicious circle.... trauma/stress - sleep disturbances - pain - more sleep problems... and that the circle starts somewhere but noone really knows where begins the start of the circle. And I reckon that's were most of us are. Where does it all being and end.

So.... we deal with lack of sleep, then we get stressed cos we can't sleep, our muscles never get to relax or recuperate. Bodies are in a state of exhaustion, almost a case of too tired to sleep.

I feel like you do, that lack of sleep can lead to other things, and that our bodies are being traumatised and getting no chance to recover.

I am lucky. In the past two weeks a different GP (in my usual practice) has given me hope. I sat in her surgery and plainly said you must stop faffing about and give me something so I get a few hours sleep, and she really took me seriously.

I have absolutely no doubt that you are not well. If you are weepy and tearful (and who wouldn't be) you need help to sort this, and to be in a better and stronger position to deal with all that has been thrown at you.

Is there a GP in your medical practice who would take the time to sit and listen to you. When I got to that point a couple of weeks ago, I wrote everything down in a Word Document, used decent sized text for ease of reading. Used BOLD where appropriate etc. etc. and gave it to the doc saying to her that it would be easier if she just read the paper, that everything I wanted to say to her was written in the paper. But at the end of the paper I had a paragraph saying 'This is My Main Problem - Lack of Sleep', and I had attached a 2 month sleep diary.

When writing it all up, It took a couple of days of going back and forth to it and re-reading, adding, changing a little for clarification. And when I was happy that it said everything that it could, I took it with me to my appointment.

I was afraid that she would think I was a complete neurotic but she found it most helpful and have made real progress since then.

Is there someone in your GP Practice that you could feel this way about.
Betty
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Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

doety
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thx

Postby doety » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:09 am

Thank you both for your helpful words.
I think I've got a good doc, but who knows.
Ann, I know you and others on the board have flown to California to see Dr. B and I've always wanted to know what kind of help you got. My daughter has asked me if there's not a "RLS god" in the country that i could go to. I could afford it and I have the time. I'm still under the impression, tho, that nobody has special knowledge and that we know as much as the doctors.
Am I behind the times on this? Did you find that these doctors gave you something (knowledge or drugs, etc.) that makes this easier?
I'm not sure I like the tone of my email; please forgive me if this sounds insulting.
I do feel like I'm in some revolving hell. Usually I can blast through it, but not always. I talked to my cousin this morning -- he has so many problems. He warned me about not talking about this all the time and he's right. This board is the place to talk about it. I don't want to run off my friends.
Seems like before I had hope -- there must be something out there that could help. That doesn't seem true anymore. Enough!! I appreciate your listening, and everything you'all do as moderators on here.

ViewsAskew
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Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:11 am

I can only speak to my experience.

I do think he knows more than any of us - simply because I can't keep up with all the research and he can. And, he's a doctor who does keep up to date (I imagine all of them do).

But, what was hoping for and got, more than knowledge, was someone who was willing to try anything, in any combination, to make it work - and from a distance, through email. No waiting - I send email at 8 PM saying this isn't working and maybe trying X would help, he emails me back at 11 PM saying yes that would be fine, or how about this instead? Either way, I had instant resolution.

I felt 100 percent supported. I felt that he cared and he'd do anything he could to help me. Not often I've felt that way. While nothing was working, in some ways I had more hope than I'd had in several years.

It took many months to find a resolution - probably close to a year. But, he kept working with me until we did. And even now, I'm no longer his patient, he takes the time to answer my local doctor's questions and help her be comfortable with what we're doing.

I don't know Dr Rye as well, but my feeling is that he'd be the exact same kind of doc in terms of caring and knowledge - just don't know how he deals with distance. Some docs don't.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



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Betty/WV
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Postby Betty/WV » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:46 pm

Doety: I was reading the posts and read your comment about driving!!!! I haven't driven since March. I have had WED/rls for many many years, trying to function like other people. I have become so sleep deprived that I started falling asleep driving. The last time scared me so bad, I could have killed myself or someone else. I have 3 different doctors and no one seems to have any idea how to help me. Plus all my other health issues. I am almost house bound. I don't even want to go out anywhere.

Now through research they think that people with WED/rls are having more heart attacks, strokes etc. Why not, when you sleep it restores your body. Are bodies are not being restored. And I had a heart attack in 2002.

Just thought I would add my 2 cents.

BETTY/WV
Thanks to rls.org, I have learned so much about my condition. I have received encouragement from my friends here. This is a site I can come to when I am up most of the night, and I vent, and know those who read my messages understand

doety
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hey

Postby doety » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:46 pm

I believe I'm the most stubborn person in the world. Really takes a lot to get through my thick skull. Then you have to get past my preconceived notions. One of my favorite quotes is something like "you can't teach people who already know it all." But do I listen?.....rarely.

Thanks for the wake up call. Certainly years ago, I did know as much as the doctors, or more. When I would go to an appointment, armed with a stack of printouts I had researched, most doctors would ask me to leave it. But obviously, they've been working hard, the word about RLS (sorry, soon I'll start using the new name) has begun to spread and it's being taken seriously

Of course my brain is scrambled and I forget that. I can't think very well. That's my excuse. Now, some things are falling into place. Part of what I'm going through right now is of my own making. Last year, I cut the .5 clonazepam in half, and was also taking 10 milligram tablets of Methadone. That was over the top sedating me. So I thought I'd cut what was left of the clonazepam in half and see if I could get off it. When I cut back, I realized the effect it was having on my brain -- and also I started sleeping less. Especially thinking of the hard time Ann had getting off clonazepam , I thought I just had to suck it up and get through a period of being uncomfortable, then it would pass. Well, it's been a long time and I had worked myself into a terrible state.and forget what I was doing. It just went on and on, got worse. Well hellfire, last night I went back to my "normal" dose of clonazepam and even got three hours of sleep. As most of us believe, once you work yourself into a "state," it's hard to get out of. I think tonight will be better...the more I can sleep, the easier it will be to get more sleep. And if I stay addicted to the 1/2 pill, I'll just live with that. I would really like to get off the Methadone, because it's the one that's causing me big problems.

And that's what I'll talk to Dr. B. about. You have convinced me that's what I need to do and now I'm looking forward to it. Haven't called yet, of course. He's in L.A., right? That's where my daughter's former mother-in-law lives. We're all close -- because we share the adorable grandson -- and I'm sure she'd let me stay with her. I can schedule my flights during the morning both ways, because mornings are mostly do-able.

So, I'll begin gathering info on how to do all this. I can't thank you enough for helping me open my brain to all this. When you have time (no hurry at all), I'd like any advice about the appointment. Would he like it if I wrote up an edited version of "my story."? How much time does he take with you? I love the idea of him being available.

I already like him. I emailed him once, and he wrote back, saying he couldn't help me by email, but he went ahead and offered the help he could give without seeing me.

All I need to keep me going is a little hope. I felt like I had run out of that yesterday and I was so depressed. Figured what was left for me was swimming, other exercise and watching TV. Now I believe things can change.

A really odd note: My daughter just told me that her father, my ex, has RLS!!! He just started taking Mirapex. Weird.

Polar Bear
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Postby Polar Bear » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:56 pm

Doety, Its good to hear you feeling more positive and hopeful.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

Betty/WV
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Postby Betty/WV » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:43 pm

Hi Again Doety: Everybody worries about getting addicted to meds. My sister mentioned that to me. I don't know how old you are but I'm 75, so I get addicted----anything is better than what I have suffered. If I get addicted it won't be for long at the age of 75.

I'm glad, you sound like you have a little more hope. We all need that.

Dr. B has a clinic in Downey, Calif.

BETTY/WV
Thanks to rls.org, I have learned so much about my condition. I have received encouragement from my friends here. This is a site I can come to when I am up most of the night, and I vent, and know those who read my messages understand

ViewsAskew
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Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:04 pm

I think it's almost impossible to see things clearly when we're sleep deprived. Study after study shows that humans cannot think clearly or perform well even with mild sleep deprivation - and many of us passed mild a LONG time ago! We need each other for reality checks.

If I remember correctly, I took him a typed up "story" but he didn't spend much time on it. he mostly talked to me and asked questions. He didn't waste much time confirmed WED/RLS like some docs have done.

The appt was an hour long. In my sleep deprived state, I showed up on the WRONG day! My flight left the next morning, when the appointment was supposed to be. But, he not only squeezed me in, but talked to me for about an hour.

He mostly wanted to know what I'd tried and what happened with each thing. He tried carefully to make sure we didn't backtrack or do something already done.

He both trusted me (HUGE in my book) to know about WED and to know about my body. He didn't force me to retry things that I said made me react badly (some docs will).

And, even later, as I reacted badly to almost every opioid we tried with extreme myofascial pain, he simply said something like, well, opioids are used to help headaches so this doesn't make sense, but it doesn't work for you, so let's find something that does. He couldn't make sense of it (neither can I), but he didn't doubt me or make me feel that we had run out of option (and we were).

Hope that helps some.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

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SquirmingSusan
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Postby SquirmingSusan » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:15 am

Doety, I have also flown out to LA to see Dr. B, several times, and he's treating me and my 2 kids for their sleep issues as well. He also spent at least an hour with me on my first appointment and let me explain my symptoms and my theories of what might be wrong, then very gently explained why did didn't think my theories (PLMs and Circadian Rhythm Disorder) were on track and why, and what he did think was the issue (Narcolepsy w/Cataplexy). I had brought a detailed sleep diary, which he didn't look at and just took my word for it that I could sleep off and on all day and not sleep well at night. He did take a look at a previous sleep study and agreed that I did not have apnea, even thought the doctors at that clinic wanted to give me a CPAP. I was really impressed at how he took me seriously, and seemed to respect my intelligence and ability to research my conditions. I didn't feel talked down to, or brushed off, and he allows a lot of back and forth.

He had me repeat a sleep study with an MSLT (nap study) and I was in an insomnia phase for it and couldn't sleep for any of the naps. It was because I had just changed my antidepressant to Effexor, not realizing that it would be impossible to sleep anytime, ever while taking that drug. Bad timing on my part. So even though I "failed" the sleep study and the local doctors ruled out narcolepsy, he took me symptoms seriously and gave me a diagnosis of narcolepsy anyway. And by diagnostic criteria for narcolepsy, he could do that because I do have cataplexy. But a lot of doctors don't believe their patients and would rather look at test results, even when those tests are not reliable.

Narcolepsy isn't his area of expertise (like RLS) but he's shown himself to be quite competent and knowledgeable. If I felt like he wasn't doing a good job treating me, the place to go to see the experts in narcolepsy would be Stanford, and Dr. Mignot. The last time my daughter and I saw Dr. B he was telling me about how Dr. Mignot had asked him to teach at Stanford about RLS. And how now he can pick Dr. Mignot's brain about narcolepsy and cataplexy, and Dr. Mignot can pick his brain about RLS. Sounds like a great partnership and it certainly works for me!

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me is that I have never had a doctor who is as easy to get a hold of. Usually if I send an email, I have a response within an hour or two. Unless he's on vacation, then it might be a day or two but he'll let me know who to contact in the office if I need something right away. We spend days playing telephone tag with the local doctor offices and we can't even call and talk to a nurse or a tech without having to leave a message and have them call back.
Susan

bekull
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Postby bekull » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:12 pm

I just read this article about research being done with Cannabis sativa that may make it possible to reduce the effects of the THC while providing the medical benefits of other compounds found in marijuana.

Thought I 'd pass it on.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/08 ... hs?ps=cprs

Deb


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