Article on Kratom

[jul2873]

There is an interesting article in Forbes Magazine here http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalv ... c-effects/

The writer is dubious about kratom, but about a hundred people posted comments (click that you want to read all comments after the article) and the comments were almost completely positive. So the author then did a test himself of Kratom and wrote about that--the link is at the end of the main article. He ended up being positive about kratom as well.

At any rate, it is making me take a hard look at using Kratom. I have been using a lot of nutrients and doing well much of the time, but sometimes I get in a pattern when I just can't sleep. I've bought some capsules from an online store and I'll put the link here because the first store I tried to buy it from took my money and then disappeared. So this is the store that seems okay: http://shop.kratomtherapy.com/

I've only used it a couple of nights so far--but so far so good. Apparently it is a mild opiate.

[badnights]

If you search the bb for the term kratom, you'll find a few posts from 2007 that are informative. Eefall has tried it more recently.

It would be well to remember that kratom, poppy-seed tea, and cannabis are all drugs. We can argue semantics about the term "pharmaceutical" til the cows come home, so I will leave the thread here for the time being.

[ViewsAskew]

If you search the bb for the term kratom, you'll find a few posts from 2007 that are informative. Eefall has tried it more recently.

It would be well to remember that kratom, poppy-seed tea, and cannabis are all drugs. We can argue semantics about the term "pharmaceutical" til the cows come home, so I will leave the thread here for the time being.

Beth makes a really important point. Just because something isn't regulated doesn't mean it isn't powerful and that it doesn't work in a manner similar to an FDA approved drug. The difference, unfortunately, is that without regulation, you have NO idea how much of what you're getting when you use it. You also don't know how it was grown, what other things might be part of it, and so on.

Anyone who uses any of these things - please be careful. Not saying not to use them - it's a personal decision, just as taking prescribed drugs is. But, as with taking prescribed drugs, it's wise to review the potential down side that always seems to exist.

[jul2873]

Those are very good points about unregulated drugs. But here's where I am. I have read a good deal of the postings on this board (not all, certainly, but a lot). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing anyone posting who is saying, in effect, "The drugs prescribed have been great with minimal side effects and no augmentation, the doctors unfailingly helpful, and I am doing really well." I am reading post after post of people undergoing real suffering, with drugs that aren't working well, and with most doctors who don't know what they are doing and are afraid to prescribe drugs that might really help. I am reading about people taking three or four drugs, just to get through the day--and even then are not doing very well.

So, with my rls advancing, I feel like I don't have any really good options. I am more comfortable taking something like Poppy tea or kratom as they don't seem to cause augmentation. I also like being in control--able to order it when I want, etc. So far, the few times I've taken kratom or poppy tea, they have been very helpful and, best of all, I get no side effects from either one. The kratom is the one I like the best so far. Last night I took under 2 grams and had the best sleep I've had in over a year.

So yes, thank you for sharing your concerns. I wish there was a great drug, with no side effects or augmentation, and that was cheap and easy to get from doctors. Or, maybe I'm wrong about the drawbacks of going the traditional medicine route. It could well be that the people for whom the traditional medications are working well just don't bother to post here. I wouldn't be at all surprised. But, for me, after reading through so many of these postings, I am much more afraid of traditional medicine for rls then I am afraid of using some natural herbs which, yes, I know are really drugs.

Best to everyone . . .

[ViewsAskew]

Those are very good points about unregulated drugs. But here's where I am. I have read a good deal of the postings on this board (not all, certainly, but a lot). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing anyone posting who is saying, in effect, "The drugs prescribed have been great with minimal side effects and no augmentation, the doctors unfailingly helpful, and I am doing really well." I am reading post after post of people undergoing real suffering, with drugs that aren't working well, and with most doctors who don't know what they are doing and are afraid to prescribe drugs that might really help. I am reading about people taking three or four drugs, just to get through the day--and even then are not doing very well.

So, with my rls advancing, I feel like I don't have any really good options. I am more comfortable taking something like Poppy tea or kratom as they don't seem to cause augmentation. I also like being in control--able to order it when I want, etc. So far, the few times I've taken kratom or poppy tea, they have been very helpful and, best of all, I get no side effects from either one. The kratom is the one I like the best so far. Last night I took under 2 grams and had the best sleep I've had in over a year.

So yes, thank you for sharing your concerns. I wish there was a great drug, with no side effects or augmentation, and that was cheap and easy to get from doctors. Or, maybe I'm wrong about the drawbacks of going the traditional medicine route. It could well be that the people for whom the traditional medications are working well just don't bother to post here. I wouldn't be at all surprised. But, for me, after reading through so many of these postings, I am much more afraid of traditional medicine for rls then I am afraid of using some natural herbs which, yes, I know are really drugs.

Best to everyone . . .

Not at ALL suggesting not to do it. Just that we want everyone who's using poppy seed tea or kratom or marijuana to think it through -unregulated drugs carry side effects and their own set of issues. We don't want someone drinking some a cup of poppy seed tea and not realizing it's not just tea - it really is a drug - just not a regulated one. Everyone of us has to make up our own minds and deal with our situations as we see fit. We're not passing judgement as to what's right or wrong - just providing information to help people make those decisions.

[erika13]

Hi Jul2873,

I’m curious as to how you take the Kratom? Do you take it in a capsule form or in the powdered form? I know there are a number of different strains with different effects as well .. some have more pain relieving qualities. Which strain have you found to be effective? Have you noticed any side effects?

Many thanks.

[jul2873]

Hi Erika,

I take Red Dragon capsules--usually 3 or 4 a night is enough to take care of my symptoms. But I've never taken opioids before, and so probably have not developed any tolerance. From reading other blogs and postings, I see most people take a good deal more.

I'm not getting any side effects at all. I do plan to try some other strains, as I've read that is a way to help prevent developing a tolerance. Actually, I think I'm going to start using Poppy S. Tea every so often as well (and thank you very much for that info). My idea is to use various medicines and supplements, so I don't develop a tolerance to any one. A large dose of D-ribose (at least 6 grams) also helps me at night sometimes, and I've been thinking I might try Kava Kava. Have you tried it?

But I am incredibly grateful for having the Kratom now, as I think it will allow me to fly in relative comfort. I have one daughter in Hawaii and a son in L.A. And I live on the East Coast with a third daughter. So being able to travel is very important to me.

Best to you and to everyone. I think we are all just doing the best we can with this devastating disease.

[erika13]

Hi Jul2873,

Thank you so much for this. I’ll definitely try it again. I tried the Red Borneo leaf powder once and it wasn’t as effective as the Poppy Seed Tea and I felt quite nauseous too. I will definitely try the capsules.

I think it’s a great idea to vary as much as possible so as not to build up tolerance.

I have started taking D-Ribose powder as well .. but I haven’t tried it at night yet.

I am yet to try Kava Kava too .. let me know how you go with that!

There is an interesting study out today:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 134600.htm

WED an overload of glutamate in the brain?
It found that glutamate (a neurotransmitter involved in arousal) was found in abnormally high levels in the brains of people with RLS.

Thank you so much again!
Erika

[peanut1]

Just want you to know that Kava Kava made my WED tons worse and that's when the WED wasn't that bad! I am told by health store people that Kava Kava can sometimes cause reverse affects and keep people awake. Certainly it works well for a number of people and I'm not telling you NOT to try it. Just giving you my experience.

[jul2873]

Peanut1 thank you so much for your caution on Kava Kava. I definitely will not try it then. I don't want that risk!

And Erika, thank you for the article link. I didn't realize that study had published any results yet. So interesting! When the study was on-going I found this link: http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/vi ... =218392537 It says that adenosine is the neurotransmitter that helps regulate glutamate, and D-Ribose is a sugar that is mostly adenosine. It's why I started taking it, and I do think it helps.

I think tonight will be a poppy seed tea night, with a chaser of D-robose.

[badnights]

And Erika, thank you for the article link. I didn't realize that study had published any results yet

The publication referred to reports the results of a pilot study that preceded the current, ongoing study. The pilot-study results formed part of the justification in funding requests for the current study.

[badnights]

I would not use kava kava for WED simply because I do not want anything with sedating properties near me, unless the WED symptoms are being dealt with. Being sedated while having symptoms is a most grievous experience.

[Chipmunk]

One poster (Sara) said this:

I was not heavily taking opiates before I took kratom. I abused them but I never experienced withdrawal symptoms if I didn't have them. And at that point I hadn't had any scripts in awhile only got them from "friends' at times. Main reason I sought the magical plant! Also, now that I have discovered kratom I could care less about opiates! My love affair with kratom is so much deeper than any other opiate. I'm sure my underlying love for opiates causes me more problems than others.
David- I should have said, this was a fantastic article. I am a PR student and am doing some journalism as well and I love that you actually did this experiment for your story! Kudos! Again everyone, I do believe kratom can be helpful. I know it's helped many but not me. I would believe it's safe to say.. If you have an addictive personality or abused substances in the past, stay the hell away from this plant!

(bolding mine)
I was thinking about trying kratom, but this just scared me away! Some people's brains get fixated on things more easily than others, and I am definitely prone to addiction of all sorts. Thankfully I knew this from a young age based on family members' addictions, so I simply didn't try drugs because I knew that one hit was all it would take for me. I think I'm putting kratom in that category as well.

[Polar Bear]

Yes, I had looked with interest at this information, initially, but I was very fearful at the thought of not having control over the amount/quality and dosage of any drug .

[jul2873]

I understand concerns about quality and dosage.

But I've read through all of the comments on that article and the one quoted above, by Sara, seems very much of an outlier to me. Almost all of the posts talk about how valuable Kratom was in helping with pain, or in helping with withdrawal from other, harsher opioids. Not one poster, that I can remember, said it was a hard drug to withdraw from. I do remember many testifying that it was easier to withdraw from Kratom than from coffee. Almost all of the posters said it greatly helped their quality of life.

I don't have an addictive personality, so that it isn't a concern for me. Actually, when my daughter cautioned me against getting addicted to it, I told her that until they came up with a cure for RLS, I had not plans to go off it anyway. My only concern is that I develop a tolerance, and it stops working. But it's wonderful now.