Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
srgraves01
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Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Thu May 15, 2014 5:55 pm

My wife read this book recently that provides a diet for neurological conditions based on lots of research. It is called:
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable By Stephen Phinney (Author), Jeff Volek. The one author is a doctor who also has a Ph. D. in biochemistry. This other author has a Ph. D. and does research in the area of diet, exercise, and health. This book has areas that are very technical and are difficult to understand -- but this just shows how much these guys know. They also co-authored another book called:
The New Atkins for a New You: The Ultimate Diet for Shedding Weight and Feeling Great [Kindle Edition] By Dr. Eric C. Westman (Author), Dr. Stephen D. Phinney (Author), Jeff S. Volek (Author). This book is easier to understand.

My wife has uncontrolled epilepsy and is already noticing benefits from following this diet. I have have severe RLS-WED and also been following the diet and have noticed benefits. As time goes on we are looking forward to more benefits from this. I was getting to the point where my medications had stopped working and I was wondering what to do next.














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ViewsAskew
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri May 16, 2014 1:49 am

Hope it continues to work for both of you. Thanks for sharing.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

badnights
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby badnights » Mon May 19, 2014 5:45 am

There is a similar book by Terry Wahls, an MD who developed MS and changed from wheelchair bound to running and biking by changing her diet. She maintains herself in nutritional ketosis, which is level 3 of her diet and is similar to diets developed for epilepsy; levels 1 and 2 are less extreme. The main point at all levels is that everything you eat should be adding as much nutrients as possible, so no high-calorie low-nutrient foods, and lots of veggies. No carbs, for various reasons. Meat, especially organ meat. Since she is an MD (and somehow has managed to raise the funds, I Think 3 million were needed), she has been able to put the diet through formal clinical trials. Usually it's only pharmaceutical companies that have the pockets for that.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

srgraves01
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Mon May 26, 2014 3:54 am

We actually read the Wahl's book first. It has several good ideas and no doubt works for many people. Many of the concepts in it are similar to the concepts in the books I suggested. One of the best things she says is how her diet works for multiple neurological conditions. This is similar to what these other doctors are saying about the Modified Atkins and the Low Glycemic Index diet. The books I recommend are based totally on research. She seems to interject some of her personal opinions into her diet. And there are some things that we disagree with her on her diet. 1) Initially she does not recommend eggs -- all of the ketogenic diets, the modified Atkins and the Low Glycemic diets recommend eggs. Eggs are more affordable and practical than the organ meats she recommends. And, eggs are good sources of coQ10 which is one of the reasons she promotes organ meats. 2) She also does not discuss the toxicity dangers of organ meats like liver, for example. 3) She also says to avoid milk products because of casein -- but then she says to avoid whey for no apparent reason. Ketogenic diets, modified Atkins, and the low glycemic diets all use cream for some of their recipes. I got the best sleep I had had in months recently when my wife made some low carb ice cream.

We are still learning somewhat. For epilepsy, hospitals like Johns Hopkins has a dietitian teach you how to do these diets and they also monitor your keytones -- so it can be challenging to attempt these diets on your own.

A little history; the ketogenic diet was invented in 1921 and was essentially eating 80%-90% fat as a treatment for epilepsy. It actually worked but is not very healthy and is also difficult to comply with. It was discarded after the invention of epilepsy drugs. It was rediscovered in the 1990s by a father whose son had intractable epilepsy and who discovered it in some documents from the 1920s. He was able to get the help of a doctor at John's Hopkins to help him administer it. It virtually eliminated the seizures in his son. This started the revival of these types of diets.

The Modified Atkins requires eating 65% fat in your diet and in the strictest stage only having 15 to 20 carbs per day. The Low glycemic diet is similar to the Atkins, requiring that you eat 60% fat in your diet -- but all of your carbs must be low glycemic. These two diets also have better compliance than the ketogenic diet. But all of them result in ketosis - which is what you want. You do want to eat good fats as much as possible -- but it seems that the bad fats aren't as harmful when you keep your carbs low. These two diets have success rates comparable to the ketogenic diet for epilepsy. They are researching these diets on epilepsy, Parkinson's, autism, Alzheimer's, and MS and in many cases are already using them for treatment -- so why not RLS/WED?

One of the reasons these diets work for multiple neurological conditions is that they affect these diseases at the cellular level. The idea is that there are common problems with all of neurological diseases that occur at the cellular level, but based on the persons genetic tendencies they may manifest themselves in different ways. The Wahl's book also espouses these concepts.

KDecker1612
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby KDecker1612 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:09 pm

Last year I went on Atkins for the first time and lost about 70lbs. I went off it gradually in late summer. My legs were better through the fall and early winter, then started getting worse again. I recently had to increase my meds. I have also gained back almost all the weight. I didn't equate my several months of reduced RLS symptoms with the diet and reduced weight, but that just might be the reason. I am starting Atkins again this week (was already planning to before I read this!), so I'll keep you posted. After a couple of months I will begin to switch to the modified Atkins diet. Hoping it works!

Rustsmith
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby Rustsmith » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:38 pm

At the start of June, I have been on a different version of the low carb, good fat diet by Phinney and Volek. The version that I am following was developed specifically for endurance athletes. However, I was also drawn to it by the ties to the original epilepsy diet with hopes that it would benefit my migraines and/or WED.

After five weeks, I cannot say that it has benefited my WED very much, but I believe that I have seen improvements in my migraines.

My only problem has been that as someone who does not have a weight problem and has been able to eat copious volumes of sweets all my life, it has been really difficult to pass up all the desserts when I go to parties, but I am learning to try. :D
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

srgraves01
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:19 am

Good luck to both of you Steve and KDecker. I found partial relief as I went on this diet that gradually decreased over time. After listening to the Augmentation webinar, which I highly recommend, I realized that I needed to stop my Mirapex -- which I had started again after I had experienced significant augmentation in 2010. I believed that the Mirapex was the main reason that the diet seemed to not be working as well. I had some difficult nights getting off of it but I had a good day and night on Sunday that allowed me to catch up on my sleep. However I ate to many carbs on Monday that has set me back. If I eat too many carbs it takes almost a week to get back on track. As Steve mentioned, the temptation of carbs can be very difficult to resist. I am hoping that I can eventually rely on the diet and occasional use of vicoden or some other opiate to control my symptoms. It helps a lot that my wife is doing this too.

badnights
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby badnights » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:51 am

I'm still on the low-starch, hi-veg, level 2 of the Wahls diet. I haven't moved to the third level because I keep seeing improvement at this level (though I'm in a bit of a slump right now; why? because I haven't added turmeric to my food for 3 weeks?)

srgraves, I agree with the failings you pointed out in the Wahls book, especially how she deviates from established science without pointing out when she's doing it.

She does say to buy organic organ meats, but doesn't help you choose what is worse - no organ meat or organ meat that is not organic.

She does explain why she cuts gluten, casein, and eggs - they are common allergens, and the casein protein is similar in structure to gluten, a lot of celiacs are allergic to both, so she requires her patients to avoid both. Eggs she says you can re-introduce and keep in your diet if they don't hurt you. She avoids them because she has a "sensitivity" (I'm still not 100% sure what that is) but you don't have to, though she requires you to avoid them initially.

What bothers me too is that she skips all the other potential allergens, like nightshades. I would think, for completeness, and maximum effectiveness, she should have combined her diet with the anti-inflammatory diet approach of eliminating all potential allergens and re-introducing one at a time.

I think I will fork out some more $$ and check out the phinney volek book you referred to.

I am sure everything will work better for you once you're off the pramipexole, if you're not already; augmentation is insidious and really truly is capable of ruining everything else in your life. It could easily mask the beneficial effects of a diet.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

srgraves01
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:57 pm

I wanted to give an update. I experienced improvement for about 4-5 months. It did not totally solve my problems but it was enough aid to allow me to take lower amounts of medication and to go without medication for 2-3 nights per week. My guess is the combination of the diet with the amount of medication still in my system was enough to help. After going off of the pramipexole for a few months I went back on .5 mg pramipexole 1-3 times per week with hydrocodone -- the other 2-3 times per week I take diazepam and generic sonata. During the 10 years before my augmentation I was taking 2 mg of Mirapex. Taking a break without medication -- plus alternating medications seems to help them to work better. However after the 4-5 months I was experiencing constipation and the diet was losing its effectiveness. My wife was having some problems with her immune system. She went back to researching and found another book: Perfect Health Diet: Regain Health and Lose Weight by Eating the Way You Were Meant to Eat by Paul Jaminet and (Author), Shou-Ching Jaminet. Both of these individuals have Ph. Ds. Paul is an astrophysicist and Shou-Ching is a biochemist. Both were having health problems so they spent 5 years researching the literature on diet to try to solve their health problems. Most of their book is about general nutrition but they do have a section on a modified ketogenic diet for neurological problems. They say that some of processes in your body require carbs so you need a minimum of 300 calories per day from carbs (75g). But you can still go into ketosis by taking branch chain amino acids. Branch chain amino acids or BCAAs are used by weightlifters to get more protein into their muscles. In fact some protein powders include BCAAs. Also they recommend carbs that don't turn into fructose in your body. They actually recommend white rice and potatoes. So I started this and I found it ironic that eating white rice actually made my constipation better. My wife's immune system problems also improved. I found that I had to take about 10 grams of BCAAs per day to go into ketosis. I have found that whey is not a problem for me although it may be for some. I take BCAAs in protein power and the BCAAs that come by themselves in pill form. For a while I was actually out of ketosis and had to work to get back into it. The last few days I seem to be in it to the point where I notice it is helpful. I do not know how long this will last but I am hopeful it will last for a while. Good luck in your efforts. We also use coconut milk and always cook with coconut oil. The medium chain triglycerides are good for your neurological system. I noticed that you mentioned Turmeric. I also take it, when I remember, on days where I am off of the Mirapex and hydrocodone.

srgraves01
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:56 am

I hope I didn't include too much information in my last post. I must also say that along with these measures I foam roll every evening and when I wake up I also foam roll to get back to sleep. Some of the people who say foam rolling is not helpful make me wonder if they are doing it correctly. When I have been at my worst, foam rolling is my only source of effective treatment -- I will foam roll for 45 min and then sleep for about an hour -- repeating that process throughout the night -- my sleep was still not very effective -- but better than the alternative. I also use stretching. For 20 years stretching was the only method I used to control my WED. I foam roll my legs, back, hips and glutes. Now that things are somewhat better I still foam roll about 2-4 times per night because I wake up from the jerking at least once.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby ViewsAskew » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:28 pm

Stretching isn't the best for me with highly active symptoms. Only movement helps then, along with muscle use to fatigue. But, with milder symptoms, a combination of muscle use to fatigue and stretching helps. Just stretching has never helped me, though.

I use foam rolling for myofascial trigger points. Definitely helps the trigger points, but doesn't help my WED. But, I haven't done it for 45 minutes, either! Except for a warm bath, nothing passive (me doing to my body instead of my body moving) helps. But, that's that STRONG urge to move component. For me, that is worse than the sensations.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

srgraves01
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Re: Low Carb High Good Fat Diet

Postby srgraves01 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:41 am

Stretching seems to help my highly active symptoms but it seems that for me it may not be as effective as foam rolling. But what I have realized is that sometimes I am not stretching the most effective muscle group. Sometimes I need to stretch my quads -- sometimes my calves sometimes my hamstrings; sometimes my hip flexors; sometimes my IT band. However I don't stretch as much as I used to. I seem to have more success with the foam rolling. The same thing is true here; in that I need to focus on different areas that change frequently -- but foam rolling allows more granularity or the ability to work on smaller areas. I foam roll different muscles in my quads -- sometimes the top; sometimes the inside; sometimes the outside sometimes the outside of my hamstrings. I use a black roller, which is the hardest -- but one might want to use a softer roller if they are just starting. Plus, I go slowly. I find a tight or painful area (rolling painful areas are typically the most effective ones -- and you don't know that it is painful until you go over it) and I stay on that area until it seems to be less lumpy or tight, or less painful -- this can take minutes and sometime there is pulsing when I work on those areas. Then I search for the next one. Likewise with my back, I will use the roller horizontally then I will use it vertically, focusing on the muscles to the side of the spine. For my lower back I do one side at a time -- likewise with my lat muscles. I also roll my glutes as some of my back pulses seem to originate there -- typically with the roller vertically. I don't always spend 45 minutes, just whatever it takes to loosen up various areas. But when things are really bad it does take more time.


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