Kratom working for now...

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
badnights
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby badnights » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:53 am

Mary, that's a very well-written letter, kudos to you. If you haven't sent it yet, consider replacing the word drug with herb or plant. A drug would be an extract of the plant, or an artificially synthesized chemical; for either of those, medication would be a better word since drug carries connotations of illegality. But for plants or parts thereof, the word plant or herb is not only more accurate but avoids the negative connotations.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
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I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

jul2873
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby jul2873 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:09 am

Thanks, Beth. An excellent suggestion. I have already sent it to the Michigan congresspeople, but will change it, since I may well use the letter again. But I never knew exactly what to call kratom, and your ideas are perfect. Thank you.

SnOman
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby SnOman » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:12 am

Thank you Mary!!
Good suggestion Beth!
Having a cup of tea and off to bed for me. The Green Malay strain I currently have has been effective all night for me!

akita007
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby akita007 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:59 pm

Hi,

I am new to the forum but not new to RSL. I have been battling it for 30+ years. About 10 of those was taking DA drug and they tore me up. After going through major withdrawals more than once from these drugs, I found that opiates work after I had major back surgery. The back surgery in itself helped with the nerve compression and I found that the opiates work best for my RSL but with the change in the laws recently my neurologist will not write the prescription. He does not deal with triplicates. ~sigh~

I found the forum here and the discussion on Kratom. I ordered some from the recommended vendor and the powder arrived quickly. I have been at my desk all day and my legs are bugging me a bit and made some tea. Within 30 minutes they settled right down. I am hoping this works since right now I am pharma free. Low carb diet, no eating after 5pm and using Source Naturals Mucuna Dopa have been keeping me relatively RSL free. I am hoping the ktatom with give the extra boost that I need sometimes when the RSL is bad, usually from sitting so much. I have had only one cup (3-5 g I think..one teaspoon full) but I did notice a difference.

Thanks so much for all the info and will update after a few days.

jul2873
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby jul2873 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:14 pm

I'm glad it's working for you.

I had never heard of Source Naturals Mucuna Dopa. How much do you take? And when do you take it?

Thanks,

Mary

badnights
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby badnights » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:41 am

akita007, that's fantastic. I'm glad you found the kratom. Thank goodness there are still options like that out there. Remember, kratom contains opioid compounds, or at least, compounds that act on opioid receptors in the body, so it has the same potential for addiction, tolerance, and even overdose that an opioid medication would. That said, it's unusual for a WEDer to have issues like that, possibly because we have lower than normal levels of natural opioids in our brains, and treating your symptoms is going to be a blessed relief!

Mary, there's a topic in which that product was discussed and its ingredients listed: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8896
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
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I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

jul2873
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby jul2873 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:56 pm

Beth, thank you so much for the link. I read the discussion, which certainly gives me pause.

I also want to comment on your kratom comment. I read everything I can find on kratom, and, while there is agreement that it does act on the opioid receptors in the brain, there is not agreement that it has the same potential for addiction. It is very hard (impossible, really) to find good research, but reddit is full of accounts of people who have taken kratom to free themselves of regular opioid addiction. My (very limited) understanding of addiction is that you crave what you are addicted to. I have taken kratom every day for almost two years, and have never felt the slightest craving for it. I take it solely for the relief from WED that it gives me. And the reddit posters are almost unanimous is their opinion that it is harder to stop drinking coffee than it is to stop taking kratom. Again, I understand the reddit posters can hardly be considered researchers, but at this point they seem to have the most experience.

The other issue is overdose. My understanding (which may very well be wrong) is that opioid overdose is dangerous because opioids suppress breathing. Is that right? I devoutly wish we had good research but I can tell you that I have asthma that can flare up in minutes, but kratom does not seem to affect my breathing at all. And I have seen essays that claim kratom does not affect breathing. (I wish I could remember where!)

As far as I can find in searching the internet, no one has died from a kratom overdose. There are a few instances where kratom has been implicated in a death (very few--maybe two or three) but in those instances I could find, there were other substances involved as well. There is currently a case in Florida, that is driving a petition to ban kratom, where a teenage boy, who had been treated for depression, committed suicide. His mother is blaming the suicide on his taking of kratom. But when you read his history, it's hard to see how just kratom can be blamed--there are so many other factors.

This is from the CDC: "Of the 22,114 deaths relating to pharmaceutical overdose in 2012, 16,007 (72%) involved opioid analgesics (also called opioid pain relievers or prescription painkillers), and 6,524 (30%) involved benzodiazepines.6 (Some deaths include more than one type of drug.)" So prescription opioids cause many, many deaths every year, and I could not find even one death that was clearly caused by an overdose of kratom. It may be either be because kratom does not depress breathing, or it may be because a large dose of kratom usually causes extreme nausea and the person vomits it up. (I only take small doses--no personal experience here.)

I wish I didn't have to take kratom for my WED symptoms, but at this point it seems like my best option. What does scare me about it is that I am completely dependent on my supplier (Velvet Soul) for a product that is safe and clean, i.e. not coated in pesticides or other things I don't want to be ingesting.

badnights
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby badnights » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:53 am

I did wonder about adding the word overdose. I added it anyway but I should have paused to look things up instead. I recall your sharing that research before; thank you for the correction.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

jmg416
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby jmg416 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:08 pm

I just joined this forum to discuss and get input on what I am currently dealing with with my WED. As I was browsing I saw this kratom related thread, and thought I should give some input. To start with, I'm a big fan of kratom if used properly and not abused. But I can say with 100% certainty it can be highly addictive.

Along with my WED I'm also blessed with social, and to a lesser degree generalized anxiety and ADD. I've always had the ADD and until recently just dealt with it. I had tried a series of SSRIs and SNRIs with mostly bad results. And I could be way off on this, but I'm pretty certain during those miserable times on and off those medications is when my WED symptoms started. They were annoying, but not life altering at that point.

Up next for me was fun with Shingles, likely brought on by stress about a company party I couldn't avoid. The upside to this was being put on Gabapentin and Ultracet (Tramadol). I can't recall well enough to say if the Gabapentin helped, but man did the Tramadol knock out my anxiety. Though of course the Shingles passed and then there was no more Tramadol. Incessant searching led me to Kratom as an available substitute. While it wasn't nearly as good for anxiety, and was certainly harsher on the stomach it fit the bill well enough, and once I figured I could take it at night also, I had an answer for my sleep problems too.

I had read all the non-addictive articles too, and didn't think much about it. But 2 years into my daily use I was for the first time in my life officially addicted to a substance. So my usage started to increase to keep myself satiated. It eventually got me to a point where i was regularly constipated, and had constant sore, dry eyes. But most significantly my mood was totally reliant on it. And I'm sure there are worse drugs to withdraw from, but man was this hellish on me. I can safely say I had no idea what truly bad WED symptoms were until this.

Now, I'm not necessarily trying to warn anyone off of Kratom. If used properly with self control I would say it can be a life changer. I guess I just want to put in a word of caution and a bit of advice. First off, stay away from any extracts and Maeng Da strains. They will have shorter half lifes, and will give that opiate buzz that will make you crave more. Stick with the minimum you can use, and when that doesn't feel like it is doing it for you, take as much time off as needed to reset your tolerance. My positive bit of advice is I would recommend Kratom over any prescribed opioid for the reason I saw a few post above... You won't need to get your stomach pumped at the hospital for fear of death. Take too much and Kratom will pump your stomach for you very nicely on its own.

jul2873
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Re: Kratom working for now...

Postby jul2873 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:34 am

Thanks, JMG. Your experience is really good to hear about. I've also been taking kratom for almost two years but have managed to keep my doses pretty steady--about a gram every few hours all night. I'm taking a little more now than when I started, but I think my WED has just gotten worse, as I'm finding I need to take some in the afternoon now as well.

Meanwhile, I've been reading a book on Kratom written by a number of researchers from Temple University called Kratom and Other Mitragynines, ed. by Robert B. Raffa. It's a slow read, as I'm consequently having to look up terms. Amazon has the book but it is very expensive (over a hundred dollars, as I remember). After I finish the book I'll post a summary--what I managed to get out of it.

Welcome to the forum . ..


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