Medical Marijuana

[Desertphile]

My experiment with mj continues. I am still working on getting a Colorado medical mj card, so I am having to rely upon the products available at the recreational stores rather than being allowed into the medical ones. The stores tell me that the products carried are somewhat different because the recreational stores tend to stock the products that are higher in THC than CBD. So here is a summary of what I have found. I should add that because I also have mild asthma I cannot smoke it, so I have to rely upon edibles and tinctures.
One week on a 90/10 THC/CBD edible product at bedtime. I slept great, but I knew that when I woke up during the night I was very stoned and had a hard time walking.
Two weeks on a 50/50 THC/CBD tincture. This worked fairly well because I was averaging an hour more sleep each night and I was sleeping more soundly. Also, the higher CBD tends to block the stoned aspect of the higher THC, so I wasn't getting the THC high during the night.
One week on 10/90 THC/CBD pills. These are working well. I am still getting the time benefits and am sleeping even more soundly. I don't have daytime sleepiness even though I am still augmented on pramipexole and waiting to get an appointment with an RLS specialist in Denver to fix that. These capsules appear to be ground up mj leaf or bud. The product is still new to the area, so even the workers at the store are not familiar with it. I am just happy that they had it in the recreational store and did not send it all to the medical store like the rest of the high CBD products.

I should also add that I would have a very mild headache the next morning after using either the 90/10 or the 50/50. The headache disappeared in about 30 minutes and I attributed this to a "hangover" from the THC. However, with the 10/90 high CBD pills, I feel fine the next morning.

Continued update:

I have not tried three different non-smoked versions of marijuana. 1) An almost 100% CBD capsule of what appears to be ground up plant material, 2) a 50/50 THC-CBD tincture in an ethanol solvent and 3) candies of 100% THC. What I have found is that the CBD appears to be good for the anxiety side effect of RLS and is very calming, but it hasn't done me much good with my sleep. It is also rather slow acting, on the order of an hour or two. The 50/50 tincture is very fast acting and seems to be effective in stopping an RLS "attack" before it really gets started. However, I will need to use it for a while more in this mode to know if it really is the tincture as opposed to the RLS simply subsiding. As for the THC, it turns out that this is what is really helping me sleep. The candy takes an hour or two to become effective, which means that I don't feel stoned before going to bed, but it does help keep me asleep. If I do wake up, I have some loss of coordination, but I am getting more sleep with the THC than gabapentin, mirapex or any other formal medication has provided. I am currently using only 5mg of THC, which is about half of the "normal" recommended dose. Hopefully it remains effective for a reasonable time.

Now, if only the world would wake up so that I could travel outside of the state with it.

Thank you for the update; I greatly appreciate anyone's and everyone's comments about their experiences with RLS and cannabis. It is a shame you cannot use the smoked / inhaled method, as that is much quicker (I have read). The problem with consuming THC and CBD is that they are altered in the stomach, and become different chemicals---- very similar, but different.

I have read a bloody hell about the subject in the past 10 days. It appears that CBD alone, with little or no THC, has been shown to be almost useless when trying to mitigate the effects of RLS. The ratio of 1 part THC to 3 parts CBD appear to be "good" but everyone will find different ratios to be effective.

You live in Colorado, so you are allowed to grow your own (six plants). Boulder has an excellent seed sore. You can ask them for Critical Jack Auto-flowering Feminized seeds which are popular enough to not be hard to find; it has high CBD, and low THC--- which for some people is a bad thing, but for RLS sufferers I assume it's what everyone wants.

[Rustsmith]

Although I live in Colorado, there are limitations on growing your own. In my case, that simply is not possible due to other issues. However, the law does allow an individual WITH a state issued medical mj card to designate a "caregiver". Many of the growers in my area will act as caregiver and designate specific plants to individuals - for a fee. I have not yet gone through the red tape of getting a card, which does significantly reduce the prices because is bypasses most of the taxes that the state collects.

But all that is rather moot since I also cannot smoke it - due to a combination of health and the other issues mentioned above. I also would not be allowed to process it into other forms, so it looks like I will be limited to shopping at the stores. The situation is rather like brew your own beer or buy a six pack at the store. I am limited to the six pack.

[NatWest]

Steve,

What I've been doing lately is making my own mj oil. I use a 2-1 ratio, oil to mj, and cook it in a slow cooker. I just bought a small one (1 1/2 cup) on amazon for $14.99. I grind the mj in my coffee bean grinder, remove any stems, then measure it out, pour it into the slow cooker, add twice as much olive oil, and cook it on low for at least 8 hours and not more than 3 days. Then pour it through cheese cloth to strain it, then pour it into a tincture bottle. I put 2-3 droppers full under my tongue, usually about an hour before I go to bed. I keep it in a cooler beside the bed in case I need more during the night. And usually take a couple more droppers full as I'm getting into bed. Two strains I've found which are effective for me are Mr. Purple Nice Guy and Gorilla Glue. They have higher THC than the tinctures you can purchase, but also a fairly high level of CBD. I've found that the THC really helps keep my legs quiet, kind of glues them to the mattress, and helps me sleep. I got the recipe at the dispensary where I usually shop. You can use any strain that works for you. I started with a 1/4 ounce, just to test it, but am going to get a 1/2 ounce next time.

I usually do the cooking in the garage so the house doesn't smell like mj.

[Rustsmith]

Thanks NatWest, but cooking mj is not an option for me. My neighbors wouldn't tolerate the smell and would get us kicked us out.

[NatWest]

Shoot! I wondered what you meant when you said you would not be allowed to process into other forms. Well, maybe in the future at some point. I don't have asthma, but using the vapor pen had started to make me cough, and the mm Doctor I saw to renew my card strongly suggested I should stop doing it and go with a consumable form.

I'm happy to hear you've found some forms like tinctures that are working for you.

[Mister_Ed]

Hello all....my very first post on the site so be gentle with me! I've been fighting RLS since 1999 and finally after running out of sick leave and 240 of advanced sick leave, I lost my very well paying job to RLS. Over the years I was prescribed about every known medication out there. Mirapex worked the best and longest but then I was reaching very unhealthy dosages. Now I'm trying to keep my RLS at a livable level with 8mg of neupro daily and 40mg of methadone.

I live in a non-medical marijuana state and trying to devise a way to procure medically certified some. Is MM legal to ship in your luggage if you are traveling? Reading about these CBD cartridges is really exciting....can these be mailed into a state that is not MM friendly?

[Sojourner]

Can't help with your question but just wanted to stop by and say Welcome.

Wishing all who visit here some peace this night.

[Rustsmith]

It is not legal to transport marijuana from one state to another, especially from a state where it is legal to one where it is not. Colorado is currently being sued by Kansas and Oklahoma for the cost of increased law enforcement because of illegal transport across state lines.

As for the CBD capsules, the legality of those varies from state to state. Because the plant that is used to create them is technically hemp and not marijuana, they are legal is some states without marijuana legalization and not others. I know that in Texas, both hemp and marijuana are named in the law prohibiting marijuana, so they are not legal there. The same is not always true in other states.

[NatWest]

Hello Mister_Ed, and welcome to the rls website and to our discussion board.

I was contacted by a member several months ago who did not live in a state where mm was legal, but she had obtained some hemp based products over the internet, and told me they were working very well for her. So that might be worth looking into. Even though it is legal where I live, I've considered looking into it myself, but haven't done so yet.

I also found Mirapex to be the most effective for me, but switched over to mm after 5+ years of gradually increasing my dosage, and augmentation became fairly severe. I've kept my prescription for Mirapex, and still use it when I travel. What I've found is that when I go back on Mirapex after being off for several months, one .125 tablet a day will work for me for several weeks. I'm still on it after returning from Tampa FL a few days ago, and will probably stay on it for another week or so--it's much less expensive than mm, and much simpler to use.

I hope you'll keep us posted, and let us know if you're able to obtain hemp products in your state.

[yawny]

Hi! I'm new to this forum and so thankful to all of you for sharing information. I have PLMS that keeps me from falling asleep, and wakes me up many times until morning. I'm wondering if anyone using cannabis has had relief from PLMS? I've visited both Washington state recreational and medical dispensaries, and tried slow release patches, tinctures, pills, slips (melting wafer you put on your tongue), and homemade brownies from homemade cannabutter (three different flowers). I've tried pure CBN, pure CBD, and all combinations of THC with CBD. It relaxes me but doesn't stop the PLMS, or at least knock me out so I don't notice it. I have not tried vaporizing or smoking it. Has anyone had success with PLMS?

[NatWest]

Hi yawny, welcome to our discussion board. I do not have PLMS, so I'm not sure how the symptoms vary from rls, though they sound quite similar. You seem to have tried pretty much everything I can recommend. One thing I've found, after experimenting for a little over a year now with the same things you've mentioned, is that when I travel I can switch back to 1 Miriapex for a period of time with no augmentation. So I'm wondering if trying that, plus the mm, might relieve symptoms for you, at least for a few weeks or months maybe? I've also found that tinctures and oils that are close to 50/50 CBD/THC work the best. Maybe a little more of the THC than CBD, which gives me that "leg lock" feeling, like my legs are glued to the mattress. The one I'm using right now is 1 part Mr. Purple Nice Guy cooked in 2 parts olive oil for anywhere from 8 to 24 hours in a slow cooker. I take 2 droppers full at bedtime.

Good luck! I hope you're able to find the right combination to relieve your PLMS.

[yawny]

Hi NatWest, I've watched your cannabis experimentation with keen interest. Thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge! RLS hit me hard and fast last August 2015. My naturopath suggested MM so I tried many of the products. I had hoped to report my findings to this group as you had but my results were very mixed and inconsistent. Often when I tried a new product I would have 5-6 hours of uninterrupted sleep but then after the first day or two I went back to PLMS awakenings all night. I also have an anxiety problem. People at the dispensary suggested that I may be blocking the MM and I needed to essentially chill out. LOL, I've been trying to do that my entire life! So I felt reporting my experiences to this group would be the least scientific and not encouraging at all. I stopped the MM experimentation and relied on Xanax for two months while I waited for my serum ferritin to rise from 33 and to see a local sleep specialist. In the meantime, I emailed Dr Buchfuhrer and he suggested Gabapentin first, and Mirapex only if that didn't work because of augmentation. During this time the Xanax stopped working but I refused to increase because of what I've heard about benzo addiction. Then the local doctor prescribed me Mirapex and disregarded the notion of augmentation as something to worry about. My husband and I just looked at each other in disbelief. So I came off the Xanax fast, and started a rotation of Mirapex for a few days, and Lunesta for a few days. Neither one gets me past 3 hours. I'm thinking I could get some benefit from the Mirapex without committing to it and getting addicted and eventually augmenting. Is it obvious that I'm desperate and guessing at this point? I just looked at both your and Rustsmith's MM results and wondered if I should try MM again. I keep hoping that I missed something, or there might be some form of the MM that would take away, or mask the horrible PLMS? I should note that my serum ferritin is now 68 and my only other health condition is hypothyroidism. Any advice regarding MM, medications, etc would be greatly appreciated.

NatWest, may I ask you about your use of Mirapex? How many days do you take Mirapex before it starts working for you? Do you have any withdrawal symptoms when you stop it?

[yawny]

I should also note that I highly respect Dr Buchfuhrer and his suggestion of Gabapentin. I have not considered Gabapentin for my current rotation because I understand that it takes weeks to start working, so probably not a good rotation medication. I'm doing the rotation partly to allow my serum ferritin to rise with hope that my symptoms will lessen, but also because I'm really confused about which path to take. Both Mirapex and Gabapentin seem like commitments in terms of addiction and side effects.

[NatWest]

Hi yawny,

For me, Mirapex works immediately, the first day I take it. Previously, I took it for 4 1/2 years, and started getting augmentation after about 4 years. Prior to that I took Requip, which resulted in pretty bad augmentation after less than 2 years. My doctor added gabapentin, but it did absolutely nothing for my symptoms. So then I switched to Mirapex, and was quite happy with the results. Now, after staying off of it for several months, I'm able to take it, as I said, whenever I travel out of the state, and it's worked extremely well. There's always some withdrawal when I go off of it to switch back to mm, but I know I have to do it in order for the Mirapex to be effective the next time I travel. Nothing I dread more than rls on a plane.

I think the most frustrating thing with rls and PLMS is that it seems to be different for everyone. I actually did not realize this until I joined the rls foundation in 2010. That makes it very hard to treat, even for neurologists, who are considered experts in the field. I saw one a several times in 2010 and 2011, and nothing improved, he just told me to keep taking Mirapex and check back in 6 months. I just quit going.

The other thing I've learned since becoming a member, and since starting this topic, is that my symptoms, which were diagnosed in 2008, are very mild compared to just about everyone else I've heard from. So things that work for me may not be effective for others with more severe symptoms, or with other complications. What we really need is a cure, but I really don't know when that's going to happen. For me, mm is not 100% effective, but an occasional night with no sleep is better than every night with no sleep, so that is a big plus.

[crazy joe]

hey guys, love your post natwest. Ive had 8 out of 10 days of good sleep since off mirapex. Im doing a combo of herbs, supplements and charlottes web cbd. Since my rls does effect my whole body (twitches, jilts everywhere) that meds or non med method its all the same for me. Meds did control my leg kicks but sometimes did not control the body jerks. The herbalist specialist is also acupuncturist. I do feel that he is not a doctor and I am still having reservations about that however he seems to know what he is doing. I just hope Im not putting my body or mind in harms way since he herbs are not regulated like FDA. I do have a vapor pen and next time in California will try the 16:1 ratio and the 2:1 ratio. Anyway sorry for being away and i do miss you guys. Will try to stay plugged in.