Medical Marijuana

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby pinkynose » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:39 pm

Hi Peggy,
I used Yawny's recipe both for the cannabutter and the mini muffins (pg 22 of this topic toward the bottom of the page (Medical Marijuana.) The only difference is I used 1/8 oz of the CBN MJ not 1/4 oz and 1 stick of butter. My slow cooker would not simmer even on high but it maintained a constant temperature of about 200 degrees. I was told as long as it's over 175 degrees it's ok. I cooked it for at least 9 hours. Then I strained it with cheese cloth on a strainer with a handle over a bowl. You want to get as much of the liquid as possible, but not the plant material (which I didn't know.) I read that one idea is to use a piece of cheese cloth over a potato ricer (http://www.a1b2c3.com/Marijuana-How-To- ... r-002.html)
to get more liquid, but I haven't tried it. This was my 1st time and I'm learning.

I also don't know if you need to do a process called decarboxylation or if slow cooking for a long time does that. (In order for THC to properly decarboxylate—change from its acid form to its psychoactive form—the cannabis needs to be heated at low temperatures over long periods of time.) I didn't do that separately but I had used the UV light to convert to CBN in addition to slow cooking so I don't know....

There is a product called Magical Butter Machine that is quite pricey but will make it for you. I spoke to a nice guy there yesterday and I may be trying my CBN 3 different ways next time. Under the section for "Recipes" on their website they explain more about decarboxylation and according to the temperature you cook your MJ you can either enhance or destroy the THC and turn it into CBN for example.

If you get stuck with this Peggy just PM me. Anyone else too. Just know I'm just a soul whose intentions are good.......
carol

BTW There are different ways to make cannabutter and youtube videos to show you how. Most methods require adding water to the butter and MJ and then when it's done you strain it and you put it in the refrigerator. When it hardens the infused cannabutter will separate from the water. I did not use this method.

NatWest
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:16 pm

Thanks, Carol. I've copied this and pasted it so that I can refer to it when I'm not on the rls foundation web site. I think maybe Yawny might have given me all of this info also, but the only thing I actually did was the initial CBN part. I'll let you know (PM) when I am ready to try this! Thanks! Peggy

yawny
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana (CBN)

Postby yawny » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:20 pm

I've been having a lot of PM conversations with members here about lessons I've learned since my original CBN post (on page 22), and helping them to work through making CBN, making cannabutter, making the edibles, finding the right dose, and balancing their CBN dosing with other medications. So I thought I'd post a few updated notes on what I'm doing these days.

Here are the changes to how I make CBN Cannabutter:
1. I use 1/8 ounce in 1 stick of butter, instead of 1/4 ounce. This makes the cannabutter less concentrated and my edibles less potent; now I take twice as much muffin to get the same dose because I've found that the extra fat and carb makes the medicinal effect last longer so I get more sleep.
2. I use a handheld strainer with a piece of cheesecloth laid over it. Where before, I recommended "twisting and squeezing the cheesecloth to get every drop," I now press the butter out of the flower by scraping across the cheesecloth/strainer with a silicone spatula. The cheesecloth traps the flower solids and I get pure, strained cannabutter with little loss.

Here's what I've learned about timing/dosing the medicine:
I was vaping CBN flower and eating a CBN muffin before bed for over a year now, but realized I could drop the vaping and substitute more muffins. So I now take 2 CBN mini muffins about 1.5 hours before bed (I set my iPhone timer to automatically remind me the same time every night). This part is flexible. Sometimes I don't go to bed for 2 hours and the effect is the same. Some people react quicker or faster to digested marijuana so you just have to experiment. Then, around 1.5 hours after the 2 mini muffins, it's bedtime and I take another 1/2 mini muffin. That gets me through the night.

Here's what I've learned about decarboxylation:
Decarbing is important for maximizing THC potential (THCa in the marijuana converts to THC) and will naturally happen when making cannabutter if you control the temperature with a water bath around the product. (If you do extra decarbing, be sure to watch the temperature because too high will degrade the medicine very quickly -- see http://bit.ly/2wynx3k). However, despite a year of research, I cannot confirm that additional decarbing is helpful to the CBN process, nor can I determine how the established thinking on decarbing applies to CBN. So I don't do it -- what I have figured out works really well and I haven't found any value from adding extra steps around decarboxylation.

CBN marijuana has made all the difference for me. CBN is very sedating and I've heard it's effects likened to a benzo, and I agree with that. Years ago, I literally tried every THC or CBD product available at the medical dispensary (tinctures, candy, tea, pills, patches, cartridges, flower) and I either ended up totally high staring at the wall for hours, or fighting against head effects as I thrashed around in bed. But usually it was the first one. Makes me think I could have really focused and come up with a new wall color.

In my page 22 post, and with these updates, I give a lot of details, and that can make the process seem complicated, but I assure you it's an easy process. In a nutshell...I buy high THC marijuana flower known for having sleepy effects, age the flower into CBN (sunny windowsill or UV light), then take that aged CBN flower and make cannabutter in my crockpot, then use the resulting cannabutter in place of regular butter in a brownie/cookie/muffin recipe cooked at a lower temperature (300 degrees). Peggy, since we PM all the time you can always feel free to ask me any questions about the CBN process. Carol's following my process, I just coached her through it, and I am happy to help anyone that has questions. :-)
Best, Yawny

NatWest
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:11 pm

Thanks! I will copy this and save it. This has all the details I was missing about how to do this. I'm not sure when I'll get a chance, hopefully within the next few weeks. And I will contact you before I do it to make sure I've got everything correct.

Right now the tinctures and the CBD and Gorilla Glue cartridges are doing really well for me. I got 7 hours of sleep last night and just woke up once. But I would love some edibles that produce good results, and the cannabutter sounds like the best way to go.

Peggy :)

pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby pinkynose » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Thank you Yawny for posting that update. I wasn't sure how much you'd want me to disclose about you helping me. Probably asking you would have been the way to go. You have been a godsend to me and your help has been invaluable.
Carol <3

yawny
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby yawny » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:36 pm

NatWest, I'm so glad you have found a solution, actually several of them! Especially since you've recently been through such a rough patch of bad sleep. I think that's one of the many great things about cannabis, there's always something else to try...yay cannabis!

Pinkynose, I'm impressed at how you just dove into the process and got it done. Now that you've been through it once, does it seem fairly easy to you? It's obviously not as easy as popping a pill, but it's more rewarding. I see it as the same sort of effort one would make to create a Sunday supper and with the satisfaction of having done it yourself. Of course, I only have the energy to do that a couple times a year. BTW, I'm definitely going to try your potato ricer suggestion. I love how on this board we all can learn from each other...yay us!

NatWest
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi Yawny,

Yes, you're right, there is always something new to try! It's also very helpful to communicate with others who actually know what rls feels like, and how annoying it can be, and who can share ideas that might help! Yay us! :)

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:16 pm

Ladies, when cooking the CBN treated bud(s) in the crock pot covered with oil, is there a significant MJ smell? I know that Peggy has mentioned doing the cooking in the garage, but I assumed that was in an open pot. I would love to try this out since lately I have been having side effects with edible THC, but the smell issue is a concern for me.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:40 pm

Hi Steve,

Yes, there is a smell. I actually moved the Crock pot to the back patio after the first time. Yes, there was a lid on it. The smell seemed to dissipate into the air, so we didn't smell it even through the open window located just 2 feet directly above the electrical outlet where it was plugged in. But it would depend on the variety, some are definitely smellier than others. It might be a little trickier in a condo or apartment. If you have a deck it's possible no one would notice. But there may be rules against that. I finally decided to try edibles at the dispensary. :)

pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby pinkynose » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 pm

Hi Yawny,
Making the CBN was not at all too complicated. The cannabutter was a little more trouble because of my personality. Because it was my 1st time I kept taking the temperature of the water bath as if it were a sick child :) The muffins were super easy and really delicious. And just being able to sleep at night is the best!

Hi Steve,
I really didn't notice much of a smell. I had the windows closed with the AC on. When I would take the top off the slow cooker to stir the butter and mj mixture in the jar (I used an 8oz Ball mason jar, no lid) there was a faint odor, nothing more. I used an Indica but unfortunately I don't know the name of the strain.

Peggy and Yawny, yes it is great to share ideas and information and try new things! Yay us!

yawny
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby yawny » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:13 pm

Rustsmith wrote:Ladies, when cooking the CBN treated bud(s) in the crock pot covered with oil, is there a significant MJ smell?...

Hi Steve,
Sorry about your side effects. To answer your question and then some...

My first cannabutter experiments were with THC and the smell was so strong that I moved the setup out to the garage. The smell filled the garage, even came into the house past a closed door, and lingered for a few days. I still cook in the garage out of habit, but the CBN is very different as it has very little odor, a fraction of the THC. I barely smell it unless I take the lid off of the crockpot and that's just to stir (same thing with baking the CBN muffins, there's barely a smell). I've probably created around two dozen cannabutters of at least ten different strains. I made many more strains into CBN but my process is to vape first to test out the effect and not all strains make it past this step.

I've also noticed that how I've cured the flower into CBN makes a difference, too -- curing by sunlight results in less odor than by UV light, maybe because the sunlight dries out the terpenes more which I think are a big part of the smell.

For extra measure, I'm wondering if running the A/C like Pinkynose suggested, keeping the operation behind a closed door, and possibly getting an air purifier might hide the smell well. I've used purifiers for 15 years to keep out allergens, pet smells, toxins from off-gassing furniture/woodwork, smells from the neighborhood, smells from my bad cooking skills. They are amazing. Visitors are always surprised that I have pets because they can't smell them. Unfortunately, purifiers don't make your cooking taste better.

You might consider an air purifier with activated charcoal to pull out the odor. I have one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00022UIJO/re ... B007RFO05C

There are less expensive options like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/VEVA-Purifier-Ac ... 01N4IRIWK/

You might even be able to get away with some charcoal packets, a room fan, and cooking in a closed closet/room:
https://www.amazon.com/Activated-Charco ... 01LZIPJGO/

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:04 pm

Ladies, thank you for the information. I may try it out once the weather turns a bit colder here in Colorado. I could do the cooking outside on our balcony. But I will need to wait for the colder weather because we are immediately above a high end restaurant that has an outdoor patio and we are next door to another restauraant. Also, we look out over a riverwalk park that is one of the tourist attractions here, so there is a lot of foot traffic just below us that is almost 24/7. But we frequently have moderate to high winds out of the mountains, so if I picked a windy day to cook, no one might notice the smell, so long as the odor is mild.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:30 pm

Sounds like a plan, Steve! :)

pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby pinkynose » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:45 pm

Steve, it sounds good to me! Please keep us updated. :)

pamhb
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 am
Location: Canada

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby pamhb » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:48 pm

This is a continuation of a discussion that was started between Polar Bear and myself on a different, unrelated thread. Polar Bear has significant sleep issues, separate and apart from her RLS symptoms. Sleep is her first goal at the moment. She is from Northern Ireland, which as just legalized the use of CBD oil. I suggested that she might consider trying CBD oil, since I personally find that it makes me incredibly sleepy about 2 hours after I have taken it. This started a chain of questions, which I’ll try and summarize and answer here. All other input is welcome, since I’m a relative newby to medical marijuana…
1. CBD oil offers some of the following effects, without the euphoria associated with THC: muscle relaxation, anti-inflammatory, pain relief, and anti-spasm. It is the product that my cannabis doctor recommended that I start with. I know of other people with milder RLS for whom CBD oil is enough on its own. While I realize that as a severe patient I am unlikely to achieve control of my symptoms by replacing my oxycodone with cannabis, I decided I would be satisfied if it improved my sleep and/or allowed me to reduce my use of oxycodone. As mentioned above, the CBD oil does make me very sleepy, which persists through the night – I still get up, but I’m generally able to return to bed sooner.
2. Most users on this board end up mixing in some THC product, if available to them. THC has its own anti-spasm properties; there is at least one study that shows that the combination of THC and CBD has a synergistic effect in enhancing the anti-spasm properties. https://www.medicaljane.com/category/ca ... ic-effects
3. I have been taking the CBD oil as an edible – that is, I’ve been swallowing it. I’ve just discovered that this is not the most effective way to take CBD oil. It should be taken sublingually, so that it enters the bloodstream directly. Edibles take 1.5 to 2 hours to become effective; according to my readings, sublingual delivery should allow me to feel the effects more rapidly. https://www.medicaljane.com/category/ca ... ual-uptake


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