Medical Marijuana

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
jy13131
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby jy13131 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:08 am

Ok this may seem like a dumb question....but isn't that a lot of oil you have to consume per night?
jy13131

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:10 pm

I never thought about it, but it's probably about 1 tsp over 5 hours. I don't always get all of the planned doses in, but that's my goal. Spreading it out gives it a "time release" effect, so it starts working around 7:00 or 7:30 and lasts until about 2:00 am. Most of my symptoms occur in the first few hours, between 9:30 and 1:00 am, so doing it this way pretty much covers that period. Smoking the pre-roll and/or vapor pen gives immediate, more intense treatment at the very beginning, the first couple of hours, which are, for me, usually the worst. I prefer taking the oil in <1/4 tsp doses to eating a cookie or other edible every hour, and gives the same effect.

Hope this clarifies it a little.

jy13131
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby jy13131 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:53 pm

Oh that isn't much! I was thinking tablespoons full :roll: I made my oil. I used it also with a vape of 1:1 and my RLS has been so quiet it is hard to say what has me symptom free. I am going down on my other meds, which is a goal. And on a side note, my popping of my TMJ laden jaw has stopped for the first time since I was a teenager. Go figure
jy13131

Rustsmith
Moderator
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:37 pm

I want to advise a bit of caution at this time for anyone using MMJ with significant levels of THC for extended periods of time. I posted a longer explanation in another thread (http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9568&p=85875#p85875), but two weeks ago I began to experience significant issues with serious depression. My doctor made a number of changes to my medications, one of which was to discontinue MMJ. The depression disappeared overnight. Based upon the paper in the link at the bottom of this page, I suspect that it was the THC. I had suspected that my last batch of edible THC (that I had been using for a couple of weeks) was stronger than normal. If so, the research reported in the paper indicates that the increased THC would have switched from helping treat my natural depression to aggravating it. I will report back once I have a chance to experiment more, but cautious and if you are using a THC product and start to get depressed, I would definitely recommend cutting back a bit on the MMJ.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071023183937.htm
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:34 pm

Hi jy13131,

I was thinking maybe you'd thought I said "drippers" full instead of "droppers" full .... maybe I accidentally did, I didn't proof read that closely, but yes, it's not that much. I'm so happy to hear you are having such amazing results! I hope it continues for you. :) And hope some others who read your post may get some new ideas about how to deal with rls.

Thanks! natwest

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:52 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sharing this information. I'm sorry to hear about your depression. I'm certain THC can contribute to many psychological issues, including depression, since it has a powerful effect on our minds, especially in large doses from edibles. I have noticed when I go on Leafly to see what's available at our local dispensaries that some strains that are high in CBD are used to treat depression. I always click the plus (+) sign, then click on "medical" to see what the effects are, and I've noticed that depression is one of the characteristics many of them treat. I rarely even look at anything that's high THC. I look for characteristics like "seizures" or "muscle spasms" since those are the closest ones I see to rls, and "sleepy, happy, calm" to go along with it. Don't know if you're still interested, since it sounds like you're doing better, but thought I'd share it.

I'm happy to report that I slept for 9 hours last night, I just hope the dispensaries don't stop carrying my Critical Mass again like they did last fall, but at least I know what to look for in other strains now, and have found several that are close.

Good to hear from you ..... Peggy

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:28 pm

Thanks Peggy. I am going to be experimenting with some 50-50 THC/CBD tincture that my wife is no longer using for her MS. She switched to straight CBD tincture during the day and seems to be tolerating my last batch of THC edibles better than I did. For me, straight CBD helps when I get an RLS anxiety attack but it doesn't do much more for my RLS than that. I just didn't find that straight CBD did much for my non-insomnia RLS issues.

So, the experiment continues. If you heard the Foundation's recent webinar on marijuana, the University of Colorado is in the final stages of setting up a research program that will specifically look at the use marijuana for RLS. They have everything set up to go. The only thing holding it up right now was a principal researcher's license from the feds to legally handle a Schedule 1 drug, namely marijuana. If I don't get into a different research program with them this fall, I will be one of the first volunteers for their marijuana program.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:20 pm

Hi Steve,

I had the same experience with the straight CBD (ie. Cannatonic) in that I did not get relief for my rls. The ones I've found to be helpful are similar to what I'm using now, which is 8% THC/15% CBD. The CBD kind of tamps down the THC, but allows a tiny bit of it into my system, without ever feeling high. I honestly don't know how people use the ones that are 87% THC/.04 CBD. But they must be useful to someone, though not sure if it's medical in nature. The mere idea of it scares me.

I have not heard that webinar yet. I've been meaning to log on and listen, I think I have an email with a link to it. That's great that they will finally be doing this research. That's one of the items I submitted when we were asked about topics on which we'd like to see further research done. Experimenting on our own is lengthy and expensive, though I do finally feel, after nearly 2 years of trying different things, that I've found a good formula for me, but will, of course, remain open to new ideas and research, especially as it relates to rls.

I recently got diagnosed with radial styloid tenosynovitis (a tendon is squeezing a nerve in my left wrist and hand and it's very painful). I got a prescription gel at the pharmacy for $40, then discovered that the MM pain balm I got months ago for free from a local grower did a better job of making the pain temporarily go away. I'm seeing a doctor who specializes in this type of thing--going once a week--so hopefully, it will be back to normal soon, but when I told her what I was using she was fine with it. So progress is being made, and my regular physician is also on board with it for my rls. Just glad I live where I do.

I hope you will be selected for one of these research opportunities as a volunteer. Please keep us posted!

Peggy

jy13131
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby jy13131 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:40 am

Hi and thanks for all the great info. Peggy what product do you use that has that ratio of thc to CBD? If you've already told me...I apologize! It's hard to keep all this straight. I am using a vape that is a 1:1 ratio but something with a 2:1 ratio would be ideal. Thanks! And thanks for the heads up on the depression. That is my 2nd biggest health problem :(
jy13131

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:09 pm

Hi jy13131,

I'm happy the info was helpful to you. I know that some strains only seem to be available in certain states, but I'll list some of the ones I've used for my rls that have been effective. ACDC in dripper form: THC 5.82%/CBD 58.86%, Critical Mass in pre-roll form: THC 9.12%/CBD 13.58%, Critical Mass flower: 9.12% THC/15.06%, and Swiss Tsu in dripper form: THC 5.66%/CBD 58.3%. So you might look for other varieties that have similar ratios.

The other thing I do before I go shopping is to log on to Leafly.com, and see what's available in the 2 dispensaries I shop at the most. On the home page you can enter your zip code and it will list all the dispensaries in your area. Each one updates their inventory at the end of the previous day. And with most of them you can click the + sign next to each variety and it will give you a complete breakdown, including "effects" for recreational use and medical use. It will list things like relieving depression, sleepy, euphoric, relaxed, hungry, muscle spasms, and a few other things. I usually jot down some notes listing the ones that have "effects" I'm looking for and the percentages. Then I go shopping. The only one I use with a higher THC % is Gorilla Glue, and only a couple of hits on the vapor pen right before bed. It has the medical effects of relieving stress, pain, depression, insomnia, and lack of appetite, and also "couch lock" or feeling glued to the couch (or mattress), which is the one I'm after, and for recreational use, it's helpful for being happy, relaxed, euphoric, uplifted, and creative. It's THC 22.96%/CBD .3%.

I'm not sure what state you're in, but for me, Leafly is my starting point, it's available all over the country. They also list any negative effects for each one, so that info can be helpful, too.

Hope some of this information helps! Let me know if you have any more questions and I'll do my best to provide answers, though I'm clearly not an expert, and I know everyone responds differently. But I also know that I've learned a lot from others who've posted here who are also experimenting.

Peggy

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:24 pm

Peggy, out of curiosity I tried Leafly to see what they showed. They had an accurate list and map of the dispensaries in my area, but only three of them had any information beyond name and location. I am familiar with one of the three and the info on their products appears to be limited to what that store shows on their own website.

I cannot say that I am surprised by that since independent websites like Leafly are dependent upon the participation of the individual stores and if they don't have market driven peer pressure to keep their data updated, then you get a very limited like that from the stores in my area.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:49 pm

Hi Steve,

I've noticed that in our area, too. It is up to the individual dispensaries to list what they have and how much detail they provide. Most of them here provide a lot of detail, since there's a lot of competition. There's an area on Leafly for writing reviews of individual dispensaries, possibly you could put in a review that you'd like more detailed individual product info so you can check it out before you go out to shop. (Indicating that the more info that's available, the more likely you are to go there to shop.) But most will at least provide the percentages of THC/CBD. I think you can also do a search by the name of the strain on Leafly, so you might be able to see what's available, then look them up that way individually.

Good luck! :) Peggy

jy13131
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby jy13131 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:30 am

Such great info! Just to clarify...the "drip" method is the oil and dropper that you use sublingually?

On another note....I started with a new internist today. I decided to take a leap of faith and tell him about my MeD history and what I'm currently taking. He didn't seem to think I was crazy ( a REAL treat) and asked a lot of questions. He did, however say, "you are on a lot of meds". I KNOW...thank you very much!! He said he is open to talking with Dr B to team up, we will see of this is lip service. But that is a better response than my last internist, who told me that, she would think "LONG AND HARD before becoming a drug addict", when I told her I needed to try methadone for my RLS. I would be bummed if I didn't have this site to come and share these "funny(heartbreaking) stories
jy13131

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby Rustsmith » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:31 am

Thanks Peggy. All of the shops in my area have their own websites that they maintain, so the info is available, just not on Leafly (yet?).

The issue in my area right now is that the "prohibitionists" have an item on the November ballot for the county to opt out of recreational MJ sales. Hopefully it probably doesn't have much of a chance of passing. It is backed by the hospitals in the area and a bunch of doctors and anti-MJ folks. Fortunately, the county government is against it because MJ directly brought over $2M into the county coffers last year and that did not count all of the income from building permits and the like. The majority of the MJ grown in CO comes from my county due to our abundant supply of water and because the climate is perfect (we are technically a desert so we get lots of sun). It has also been interesting while at the shops to see the number of people from out of state, so it has also been a source of increased tourism. Finally, the local university is setting up a state funded MJ research program. Right now they are limited to studies to quantify the economic impacts, but are planning to eventually expand into medical reseach.

The pro side is not only pointing to the benefits already seen to our depressed economy, to the college scholarships and to things like road repairs, but also are pointing out that if the anti-MJ side are so interested in the health of county residents, why aren't they also going after the larger health issues like alcohol sales and prescription drug abuse.

The next 3 months are going to be interesting!
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

NatWest
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Medical Marijuana

Postby NatWest » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:19 pm

Hi jy13131,

I'm happy that the info here has been helpful to you! Okay, I will clarify the terminology I used, a dripper is a syringe, which can be used to refill the cartridge that fits onto the vapor pen. The ones I buy contain 1 gram of concentrate, my cartridges hold about a 1/2 gram, but those that are high CBD usually only a 1/4 gram. Here, a 1/4 gram cartridge costs about $45, but a 1 gram dripper is about $75, so you get 4 times as much for only $30 more, plus you don't have to run out and buy a new cartridge each time you finish the 1/4 gram cartridge. So, hope that makes sense.

When I make the oil, I strain it and pour it into small tincture bottles with an eye-dropper type dispenser, which holds about 1/8 to 1/4 tsp per dropper full, depending on the size of the dropper and bottle.

That's great that your internist did not think you were crazy! That's always aa good sign. Hope things continue to go well and that you'll keep us posted ......

Peggy


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