Trying to get off of Kratom

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
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jmg416
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jmg416 »

I have been dealing with RLS for over 10 years at this point. Unfortunately I believe I have made it much worse for myself, and don't know which way to turn.

I started on a small dose of Gabapentin, which over the years turned into a large daily dose. (600mg morning/ 1200mg night). This helped reduce it but did not alleviate it. Along the way I used some prescribed drugs and some recreational drugs to get me through. When I finally stumbled upon kratom I thought I had my answer.

Kratom helped immensely. But I started to find other excuses to take it during the day. I started to lose myself in it, and was taking it 3 times a day. I didn't feel like myself any more, and had one additional side effect that I couldn't stand. Though I did manage to lose 20 pounds and get back in shape while on it. Back in January I decided to quit. I made it through 2 weeks of not sleeping before I finally gave in and started it again around the clock.

I just recently quit again, but this time with the plan of taking 2 weeks off and then just using it at night to sleep. I have stuck by this plan, and have slept well since. But my days are terribly uncomfortable. I was hoping with the 2 weeks off that using once a day would be enough for my body. I'm still hoping I can adjust, but I'm worried as long as I take some kratom, my body will cry out for more.

I saw a neurologist and have tried Requip and then Baclofen. The requip made me feel like I was freezing from the inside out. The baclofen did nothing but make me exhausted the next day. I explained the kratom to him, and my problem with it. He seems to understand.

So now that I've gotten all that off my chest, I'll get to what I'm hoping for some input on. If I stick with the one dose of kratom at night is it possible my body will adjust over time? And does anyone have any idea what that time frame might be?

Also, I am thinking that Tramadol might be a solution to hit the neurologist up for. While I know I would likely be trading one addicting drug for another, and my body would still have to adjust I could at least eliminate the kratom side effect I am trying to get away from. So my question here is: has anyone transitioned from kratom to tramadol or vice versa, and was it a good substitute?

Thank you in advance for any input. Sorry for the long post, but I'm just hoping to avoid ending up right back where I started.

jul2873
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jul2873 »

Hi jmg,

I also use kratom to manage the symptoms of RLS. Actually, it's all that I use. I usually use a total of 6-8 grams a day, spread over about six doses. A dose is a half tsp. of kratom dissolved in orange juice, that I keep in the refrigerator until I need it.

I'm not sure what side effects you are talking about. I don't have any, except occasional constipation. I don't feel high at all when I take it. All I feel is a blessed release from the RLS agony. Perhaps you are taking more than you need to.

Certainly if I stop taking it I am very uncomfortable, but that is because the RLS is now raging, not because of any withdrawal symptoms of kratom. I have pretty much resigned myself to the reality that unless a cure for RLS is found, I will need to take some kind of med. daily to control it--either that or I'll live a completely miserable life. Kratom seems to me to have the least side-effects of any of my other options. It doesn't cause augmentation. It doesn't make me nauseous, or dizzy. It doesn't turn me into a gambler. And it doesn't seem to cause any physical side-effects. I just had a complete physical, and everything is fine.

What is your plan to do after you quit kratom? Is there a better option out there--something that relieves all the RLS symptoms without causing any side effects?

Thanks. Best to you.

jmg416
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jmg416 »

That is my exact problem. I have no plan currently that I can see getting me off the kratom. That's why I was thinking tramadol might be the solution.

The side effect that is my main issue with kratom is that it affects my tongue. It causes my papillae to grow. Not only does this look gross, I feel like I have a hair stuck in the back of my throat at all times. Don't get me wrong... This is not worse than dealing with the restless legs. But it is enough for me to still want to try to find an alternate solution. Other than that, as long as you can control your intake, I agree that kratom is a worthwhile and safe solution.

For now, I will try the way you do it. I will split my nightly dose into several smaller doses to take throughout the day. I'm willing to sacrifice a couple of night's sleep to see if my body can adjust to that better. My only concern is that I found smaller doses to be stimulating in the past. But my total intake was higher then. So we will see.

Thank you so much for the input.

jul2873
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jul2873 »

I have never heard of papillae growth as a side effect of kratom. The only thing I could suggest is that you drink a good deal of water when taking it.

Since tramadol is an opioid, it would probably work as well, although I understand it can have fairly serious side effects. And can you find a doctor who will prescribe it?

Keep us up on how you are doing. Take care.

ViewsAskew
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Location: Los Angeles

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by ViewsAskew »

It's one of the more problematic aspects of taking any drug, but likely more so those that aren't researched. There can be so little to go on.

I wonder if you've become physically dependent and you go through withdrawal during the day, so you want to take it to remove the uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. Or maybe even it's a bit addictive for you.

If you do find and try tramadol, I'd suggest being VERY careful with it. It can be addictive and is definitely at high risk for physical dependence. I landed in an ER because I didn't realize how quickly (about a month) I could become dependent. I stopped it without thinking and by the time I realized I was in severe withdrawal, I couldn't keep a tablet down so had to go to the ER to become hydrated and get an intravenous injection. I then tapered off slowly.

I hope the jul2873's method works for you.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Polar Bear
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Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by Polar Bear »

I use Tramadol as part of my medication treatment and I'm unaware of any particular side effects.
However..... I am very aware that if I was to come off it, a long slow taper would be required.
Betty
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

jmg416
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jmg416 »

ViewsAskew wrote:It's one of the more problematic aspects of taking any drug, but likely more so those that aren't researched. There can be so little to go on.

I wonder if you've become physically dependent and you go through withdrawal during the day, so you want to take it to remove the uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. Or maybe even it's a bit addictive for you.

If you do find and try tramadol, I'd suggest being VERY careful with it. It can be addictive and is definitely at high risk for physical dependence. I landed in an ER because I didn't realize how quickly (about a month) I could become dependent. I stopped it without thinking and by the time I realized I was in severe withdrawal, I couldn't keep a tablet down so had to go to the ER to become hydrated and get an intravenous injection. I then tapered off slowly.

I hope the jul2873's method works for you.



I definitely have become physically dependent on it. And I'm sure it is slight withdrawals I am going through every day. I do suspect that switching to tramadol would be trading one addiction for another. But I feel it would be preferable for a couple of reasons. The first is eliminating the side effects of kratom that I have an issue with. I have been on tramadol before when I had shingles, and did not have any adverse side effects, minus a bit of constipation. But more importantly I feel I am much more likely to stay on dose with a prescribed medicine than one that I can get an unlimited supply of.

I put a lot of thought into the way jul2873 uses kratom. And I initially really liked the idea. But I am concerned that it is just the addiction in me rationalizing an excuse to start taking it repeatedly each day. And my top priority is not letting it take control of my life again. Though I am contemplating letting my wife be in charge of the kratom and setting my doses up for me. I did try just taking 1/2 my nightly dose last night, with the hope that I would take the other half when I woke up in the morning. But I was up at 1:30 with no choice but to stay awake or take it then.

The frustrating part is I know I can beat the addiction, as I have stayed off the kratom for 2 weeks twice in the last 6 months, as long as I have a solution to deal with the RLS. When I quit this last time I had such high confidence that the requip would be the answer once I got past the first few days (where you don't sleep no matter what). But the 3 nights I used it for were nothing short of awful.

Thank you all for the input. Just discussing it helps keep a positive attitude as I plod through these days.

ViewsAskew
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by ViewsAskew »

It's so hard for some of us to find something reasonable. Seems crazy that we should have to go through this...

Hope you find a way to make it work.

I definitely am one to have dependence very easily. I combat it by switching between meds. I take an opioid part time and a dopamine agonist part time. Keeps me from having the worst of either. I just switched (again) how I do it to deal with pesky side effects - too long on the DA and I get pretty depressed.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

jmg416
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jmg416 »

ViewsAskew wrote:It's so hard for some of us to find something reasonable. Seems crazy that we should have to go through this...

Hope you find a way to make it work.

I definitely am one to have dependence very easily. I combat it by switching between meds. I take an opioid part time and a dopamine agonist part time. Keeps me from having the worst of either. I just switched (again) how I do it to deal with pesky side effects - too long on the DA and I get pretty depressed.


Switching would have been a good plan for me. Even if is was just between kratom and tramadol. Or it would have been nice if the DAs worked for me too. I think that could have been a path to get clear of the kratom.

Hopefully the neurologist will have a plan. Until then I'll just try to get by on as little kratom as I can.

erika13
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by erika13 »

I have been taking Kratom daily now for exactly two years and don’t have any side effects and I haven’t increased my dosage either.

I only take it at night .. when I symptoms start up, which is usually an hour or so before bed. I also take it when I wake up during the night, which is generally once or twice. It’s a lot better than waking at least 8 times before Kratom.

I take the red leaf Borneo strain, which has more sedative and analgesic properties.

I’ve never heard of Kratom causing papillae on the tongue to grow. I’m not sure what the mechanism would be.

Yes, it hasn’t been studied, but the reason I do prefer to take it over the opioid drugs, is that Kratom is in its whole plant form. It is not an isolated compound. Along with the alkaloids in Kratom that work on opioid receptors, it contains powerful antioxidants including epicatechin, which is also found in green tea and chocolate.

I would be interested to try CDB oil (from the hemp plant) to see if it would be effective too.

jmg416
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Trying to get off of Kratom

Post by jmg416 »

erika13 wrote:I have been taking Kratom daily now for exactly two years and don’t have any side effects and I haven’t increased my dosage either.

I only take it at night .. when I symptoms start up, which is usually an hour or so before bed. I also take it when I wake up during the night, which is generally once or twice. It’s a lot better than waking at least 8 times before Kratom.

I take the red leaf Borneo strain, which has more sedative and analgesic properties.

I’ve never heard of Kratom causing papillae on the tongue to grow. I’m not sure what the mechanism would be.

Yes, it hasn’t been studied, but the reason I do prefer to take it over the opioid drugs, is that Kratom is in its whole plant form. It is not an isolated compound. Along with the alkaloids in Kratom that work on opioid receptors, it contains powerful antioxidants including epicatechin, which is also found in green tea and chocolate.

I would be interested to try CDB oil (from the hemp plant) to see if it would be effective too.



I think just taking it at night would have been ideal if I had stuck with that plan. Once I got the point where I was addicted everything just kinda snowballed into the problem it is now.

I hadn't heard of anyone having the same issue with their tongue that I have. but I have been on and off the kratom enough timed in the last few years that I can be 100% certain that is the cause.

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