Another year of relief

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
ViewsAskew
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby ViewsAskew » Sun May 08, 2016 8:53 am

I found this from the U of Chicago - it's related to kidney stones, but seems a pretty solid source of info. http://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/how-to ... late-diet/
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

tommy108
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:23 pm

Re: Another year of relief

Postby tommy108 » Sun May 08, 2016 10:26 pm

I just past the 15 day mark on my strict low oxalate diet and thought its time to share.

I am still quite encouraged. Until a couple of bad (6-7) nights that just happened, quite randomly, on nights 13 and 14 I was ecstatic.

On my symptom scale a 10 means I sleep an hour or less. A 1 = eight sweet hours, with a restroom break at the four hour mark. Before the low oxalate diet, I was having a lot of consecutive 7-8s. Really rough nights with 4 hours sleep, and zombied the next day, with an occasional 5-6 night of reprieve.

Day 1 : 4 -- still woke up several times, walked around, went to bathroom. But virtually NO restless legs. (after 24 full hours on diet)

Day 2,3: 7-- I believe this was my dumping stage. It came back with a vengeance, testing my commitment. I had already bought all new groceries so stuck on it.

Day 4-12: 3/4 Some really nice nights, here 90% symptom free. Getting 7-8 solid hours. Still wake up and pace around the house. 4,5 times. (Old habits) ButEspecially 12,1,,2 AM range. Fall right back asleep. No kicking under the covers, no air squats in the kitchen, no strange energy in my legs. None. And deep, uninterrupted sleep from 3-7am. Another odd thing...was occasionally waking up at 630...and able to fall back asleep for an hour or more. One day I sleep til 830. Unheard of in my house for a half decade.

Day 13/14: 7 An unwelcome return. I have zero clue what could have triggered it. Unless I am allergic to corn. Or rice crispies. It's rather maddening....lying in bed going through everything I've eaten....maybe it was the stick of sugarless gum my Uber driver gave me.
One distinct difference was that the RLS came on in the 4 am range and kept me up til dawn. This has never happened before. It has always come on soon after I go to bed, and is generally done by 4 am. Hmmm. Not sure what that means.

In summary, I am 100% certain the disappearance of my symptoms was a result of low oxalate diet. On the few occasions where I've slipped up -- granola, yogurt, -- I can feel the restlessness enter my legs within minutes. That said, I am more than a little concerned that I had a nice 10 day reprieve and now the RLS has adapted like the terminator and is coming back for more.

All I can do is keep my head down, and stick to my food diary, hope and pray for an improvement.. Thank you all for your support.

In terms of advice for others. See Notnowdad previous links for more details than I can offer, and lean on him as I have, with so much gratitude in my heart for his presence and encouragement. Print off all three of the food lists in this thread, and notice any discrepancies. I stuck to the 0-2 very low for the first week and gradually added 2-10, low. I have no intention of going into the M or high oxalate foods any time soon. Whole foods is very depressing for me -- make a list, and get in and get out. I am putting dining out off for a month. Nothing is more important than getting my health, and my life back.

PS...And after nine years without beef or pork, I enjoyed a 14oz New York strip last night. Medium Rare. With new potatoes and broccolini. Emphasis on enjoyed. Damn. Membership has its privileges.

notnowdad
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby notnowdad » Sun May 08, 2016 11:53 pm

Tommy, This is wonderful news. I couldn’t be happier for you and for the people who may benefit from your experience. Whatever happens in the upcoming days and weeks, please hang in. I have every confidence you are on the right path, even if it gets worse for a while. It is entirely possible that your “honeymoon” period was longer than typical and now you are entering a stage of real dumping.

If your recent setbacks are, in fact, due to a dietary “slip up”, my experience would say to look to what you ate from 12 to 36 hours before the return of symptoms. And look for a “layering on” of moderate content foods that combine to upset things. On the other hand, the fact that the discomfort has persisted for 2 days suggests that you are not dealing with a “slip up” but, rather a deeper cause like dumping. The proponents of LOD’s make a convincing case for the idea that the body sequesters excess oxalate in various organs. Given your incredibly high consumption of high ox foods it seems like you could have a lot to unwind.

As always, I wish you all the best. What follows is a post I was composing before I saw yours. And, I hope those new potatoes you enjoyed with the steak were boiled.

Participating in this discussion is forcing me to rethink some strategies and to dig deeper into the available resources. I have joined the Trying Low Oxalates (TLO) discussion group on Yahoo and downloaded their spreadsheet which seems to be about the best information source for oxalate levels in most foods.

Ann, I think the link you provided is a good source. I have a couple of comments concerning the facts as presented there. As always it remains difficult to get consistent, error free presentation of the facts concerning oxalate in foods.

I read on the U of Chicago site the sentence “Green tea is better than black.” The sentence was blue and bold and an active link. I clicked on it and went to a science website offering the abstract of a paper reporting that “herbal tea” (not green tea) was low in oxalate. I still think the U of C site is a good resource, but this is another reminder that we need to cross check stuff and be vigilant. TLO says many high quality Indian teas, black or green, are in the range of 15 to 20 mg of oxalate per 8 ounces with some up to 23 and 26 mg. They do say Lipton black has only 8.8 and Lipton green only 5.5. But I would assume that a big company like Lipton could have many sources of supply and the results might not be consistent. Or, perhaps, because of the way they process their leaves, the numbers may be consistent.

A couple of other quick thoughts based on the more comprehensive TLO info:

For potato lovers like me, all is not lost, despite the U of C dismissal of the entire family. A baked russet potato has 49 mg of oxalate per 100 grams if you don’t eat the skin. And 200 gram baked potatoes are the rule rather than the exception. However, boiling peeled russets reduces the oxalate to 25 mg per 100 grams. And with boiled red new potatoes that have been peeled you only get 13 mg per 100 grams. So I’m OK with putting some boiled, peeled new potatoes in a dish like a frittata or a tortilla Espanola where you are not going to eat a huge amount of potatoes.

And some good news concerning pasta. While thick pastas like elbows, lasagna and penne come in around 28 mg per 100 grams, thin ones like spaghetti offer about 19 mg per 100. So a modest portion of around ¾ cup has only slightly more oxalate than a relatively harmless 2 slices of white bread. The key here is portion control and, either skip the tomato sauce, or only use a small amount.

Concerning avocados, TLO reports 1.3 mg per 100 grams so a 120 gram fruit only has 1.56 mg of oxalate. And the U of C info says 1 avocado is ranked Very High and gives you 19 mg. I assume one of them has their decimal point in the wrong place, but I honestly done know which it is. Even if the high number is the correct one, most people eat a half a fruit, or much less, most of the time, so a realistic portion of avocado hasn’t got all that much oxalate.

I am delighted to know coffee is confirmed by both websites to be very low in oxalate. Today at lunch I decided iced tea just isn’t worth it, and had coffee instead. All this research has led me to the idea that I’m going to see how low I can go, for a while, to see how good I can feel.

jmg416
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby jmg416 » Mon May 09, 2016 7:52 pm

I'm struggling with the discrepancies between lists. I can't seem to find one that tells me I can eat all the pretzels I want in the middle of the night. But then again I guess the plan is to NOT be awake at all to eat the pretzels.

I'm still (very annoyingly) still dealing with this withdrawal crap. At the rate it's going I'm thinking another 2 weeks. But I'm already trying to causally eliminate the high oxalate foods from my diet so I can try this full bore once I feel I'm ready.

On the plus side I discovered last night that if I only take Xanax every 4 days 1mg. can put my out for the night. Though I'm not 100% on that as I have vague recollections of wandering the house last night and trying to get in bed with my wife before I realized she doesn't let me sleep there these days. It may have been a dream, but with Xanax it also may have been 2 hours that I just can't recall.

tommy108
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby tommy108 » Mon May 09, 2016 10:52 pm

Whoa....I didn't realize green tea was a definite offender. One of my lists has it okay -- the other doesn't specify. Eash. I drink two cups a day, religiously. Been off coffee for several years, and despise herbal teas. Any suggestions, Jim? Yerba Matte or Tulsi tea on either list? Please remind me what I said about the turn sandwich. lol

Also, what do you have for salty snack? Dang. Happy hour just aint the same. The only thing I've found is those miniature flavored rice cakes.
Have you found a good breakfast cereal? The healthy rice cereals are made with brown rice, and granola (maybe because it's baked?) seems to trigger. Rice Crispies and Cheeries might as well be sugar and air....but I like a bowl in the late eve.

Have you found that different types of lettuce are all safe....in other words, can I get the spring mix, red leaf, etc. or better to stick with plain romaine? This fresh component is big if it works. I had a greek salad for the first time and it was amazing. I am getting dog tired of boiled cabbage, broccoli and cauliflower.

I am not big on potatoes cause of their glycemic index. But yes, I peel and boil them. There is some opposing data on broccoli -- has it been safe for you?

Avocados have to be low -- doesn't fit the profile.

When you mention corn tortilla, are you referring to the crisp ones out of the bag, or soft? Can we have salsa and or BBQ sauce?

Thanks again.

notnowdad
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby notnowdad » Tue May 10, 2016 3:12 pm

I’m relying on the “Trying Low Oxalates” Yahoo group Excel spreadsheet which seems to be the best compilation of the most current info. But be warned, the spreadsheet is no fun. It is huge and, for me, somewhat confusing. I took a legal pad and pen and started making notes of the things that were most relevant to my diet. I finally settled on a “unit of comparison” that helps me. A slice of white bread is about 8 mg of oxalate. A corn tortilla is a tiny bit less, but about the same. A white flour (wheat) tortilla is a tiny bit more, but about the same. So I think of each these as “one unit”. An ounce of Fritos (32 chips) shows 7.92 mg of oxalate, or about one unit.

So, if the tortilla chips are large and about a 1/4 of a tortilla, having 8 of them with some salsa is probably not a big deal since that is only 2 “units”. But if somebody then orders some queso for the table, try to be restrained with the additional chips. And stay away from the bean nachos for sure. A ½ cup serving of pinto beans is 5 units (40 mg of oxalate). A serving of black beans is 9 units (72 mg). And as long as we are talking about Mexican food, watch out for enchiladas verdes. Each little tomatillo is almost “one unit” (6.6 mg) and the sauce concentrates quite a few of those little devils along with some serrano or jalapeno peppers.

Most serving sizes are expressed on the TLO spreadsheet as ½ cup. Using my system, a serving of boiled asparagus is “about a unit”. Same with green beans. Or a fresh tomato. Or a boiled artichoke. Boiled broccoli is less than half a unit. Cauliflower is even less. A moderate serving of boiled, peeled new potatoes would be about two units. A serving of raw baby spinach is 20 units. A serving of boiled mature spinach is 40 units. A serving of steamed red chard is 115 units (920 mg).

I’m starting to consider a very low oxalate meal to be around 5 units (40 mg). And a reasonable meal to be around 10 units. Looking back on it, I ate a lot of meals with around 20 units and, while I might have a lot of what I call “leg awareness” the next day, it would still be way below what anyone would call real, full blown restless legs syndrome.

Most good quality green teas test out at 1.3 to 2 and, sometimes, 3+ units. Lipton green tea tested once upon a time at 5.5 mg per cup which is only 2/3 of a unit. Yerba mate shows 6.6 mg. A couple of others mates show 7.6 and 8.5 mg. “Tea, oolong, Novus” shows only 2.26 mg per 1 cup serving. That seems odd because I always thought oolong was “real tea”.

All lettuces are low, half a unit or less per serving. Spring mix is good if it doesn’t have baby spinach in it. As you suspected, the paler the lettuce the lower the oxalate. Surprisingly, kale, mustard greens, dandelion and collard greens aren’t too high. They all come in about 1 unit per serving. They are even ok raw.

I look at a good sized Greek salad as being about 1 unit without the olives. Five or six olives add another unit, so not too bad. Olives are considered high oxalate because they have about the same amount per 100 grams as pinto beans, but fortunately you don’t need too many olives to enhance most dishes.

Kellogg’s corn flakes show .28 mg which is only 1/28 of one of my “units” of 8 mg. Frosted corn flakes are a tiny bit higher. I don’t find Rice Krispies in the list, but Rice Chex come in at 3.61 mg. Plain Cheerios show 3.11, or less than half a unit. Whole Grain Oat Cheerios show 5.26 mg. Post Grape Nuts show 11.2 mg. In general, minimally processed cereals are higher. Bob’s Red Mill Old Fashioned Rolled Oats show 19.19 mg and McCann’s Steel Cut Irish Oats show 16.56 mg. That is 2 to 2.5 of my units per serving, so granola made with whole oats probably isn’t too bad a snack unless it has added wheat bran or nuts, both of which would really drive the numbers up. An ounce of almonds or hazelnuts or filberts has over 28 mg, or 3.5 units. Raisins are fairly low in oxalate and you would have to eat 1/3 of a cup to get one of my units. BTW, poppy seeds have about 5 times the oxalate of almonds. And dried sesame seeds have almost twice as much as poppy seeds. Even though there isn’t a lot of tahini (sesame seed paste) in most hummus, it is really potent stuff.

Hope this helps.

tommy108
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby tommy108 » Fri May 13, 2016 3:03 am

Yes, it helps very very much. Thank you.

Mainly because, until now, I wasn't adding up the MG of the oxalates, or considering tquantity. I was just choosing from the L/VL category and going at it. That said, I don't think I could ever exceed 10 units in a meal.

Unless there are some serious blind spots, as I have now joined the yahoo group and after three day wait have access to the sacred spreadsheet. It's like the fountain of knowledge -- good gawd, Belgian Endive makes my legs squirm just reading about it.

I drink imported, Gyokoro green tea, and I brew it strong and drink 2-3 12 oz glasses. Eash. Same goes for quiet assassins like Onion Powder (EH) or Coconut Milk (M) which I've been using liberally in my low Oxalate diet. Maybe it wasn't the granola after all, but the almond or coconut milk.

Mind boggling -- but really exciting. Knowledge is power, and I slept quite well last night, my first day without green tea in about a decade. It's only going to get better from here on out. Cheerios!

tommy108
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby tommy108 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:34 pm

Hi All

Well...I am not ready to stand on my rooftop and scream sweet relief, remission just yet. But I am getting there: several weeks with zero leg kicking and good sound 7 hours sleep with only 1-2 wake ups per night. My RLS is gone.

I thought I'd update the good people who stood beside me during my dark months, reflect on my experience, and hopefully offer some guidance for others.

I'll offer my treatments/therapies chronologically, as it would be difficult to put them in order of importance. Everything listed took me up a notch, and then finally, my system sort of rebooted and healed itself. I can feel it. My legs are happy day and night.

1. Gluten Free/Dairy Free Diet -- this went on to include pretty much all grains except rice. The single biggest triggers I have found are wheat, corn and oats.

2. Low Oxalate Diet --thanks jim. substantial relief for a few weeks, and then it needed help. Still on it for the most part.

3. Ayruveda Diet These practitioners believe RLS to be a Vata imbalance. Vata is air element. And my legs were never in pain so much as light and airy and full of helium and energy surging down from my sacrum. Getting onto a vata pacifying diet was huge -- and rather similar to low ox. But eliminating raw vegetables and anything dry, also eating lot of avocados, butter, and olive oil. My legs stopped kicking immediately. I was eating big lettuce salad w my dinner. I really believe now, for me, RLS was a Vata imbalance. Also, I drink nearly a gallon of water a day and it helps.

http://www.banyanbotanicals.com/info/ay ... ying-foods

Needless to say, I am on a very strict diet. I even had to give up green tea....as its now a trigger. Nothing out of a box whatsoever. No sugar. Lean protiens, wild rice, steamed organic vegetables. And I am quite happy.

One thing I learned is that if I repeat a certain food too often for a prolonged period, I develop an allergy to it. Now, I have different meals, a wide variety.

4. Auruveda Treatments ---MARMA similar to acupressure massage, my legs went absolutely crazy, kicking and bucking like a bronco and she was barely touching me...on my face no less. It was the worst RLS symptoms I've ever felt, like 10 bad nights rolled into an hour. And that was the last time my legs have ever kicked. Like an exorcism.

5. Testosteron Replacement Therapy. (pellets) My free testosterone was 5.2. The scale is 4.8-25. And everyone reports better sleep (in addition to vitality, libido and muscle tone) So I went for it. $600. I am nearing a month now. I slept without waking til 4am the very first night....even though Dr said I wouldn't really notice effect for 1-2 weeks. Guys, this is a life changer, can't say enough good things about it. As I was healing, it's like the testosterone added some armor to my body. Five pounds of fat fell off immediately. I can take a nap for the first time in a decade. I'm on these for life. (every 4-6 months)

6. Myo Fascial Release. The most god awful miserable massage you'll ever get. They belive RLS is a fascia issue...energy is trying to move but it is blocked by folds of fascia. I had three treatments. One he worked on my feet. The next, my bladder, his fists buried into my gut. But ever since I am urinating less frequently day and night than I have for ten years. Remember, my RLS included 6-8 trips to the bathroom every evening. https://www.myofascialrelease.com You can find a practitioner in your town if you choose. I am continuing these weekly.

Oddly, he was drawn right to the spot where my ingral hernia surgery was, several months earlier, also near by bladder, which was extremely tender and bunched up, and right in front of the sacrum, where I've always felt the restlessness "originating." Remember, my RLS kicked in big time after the h surgery. So why exactly did I have the hernia? There is only one piece of fascia running through your entire body and it gets bunched up like cellophane, preventing cell to cell communication, the release of waste, nutrient absorption, etc.

Lord have mercy. Those were some tough months this past winter. Such desperation and despair. It's hard for me to even visit this website.

There's always a lesson, something to be grateful for...I learned about making the most of every single day, and being grateful for a good night's sleep, and to have compassion for everyone. You never know what someone is going through.

I wish you all peace and pleasant dreams.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:07 pm

Hope your remission lasts a very, very long time. You've earned it!
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

notnowdad
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby notnowdad » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:00 am

Tommy, it is great to hear from you. I’m delighted that you are doing well.

Since I stopped drinking iced tea with lunch I have been almost completely symptom free. However I did have a bad experience with collard greens, which I was eating in an effort to add variety with a very healthful vegetable reputed to be low in oxalate. Unfortunately, we braised it instead of boiling it and throwing away the cooking water. I got miserable the next day and the misery lasted through that night.

Concerning the grains, I have finally admitted that I have lots more energy and a much better attitude if I don’t eat wheat. Some people have suggested that higher quality, organic flour properly fermented with yeast could be more tolerable. Numerous times I baked some terrific bread with King Arthur organic bread flour with an 12 to 18 hour fermentation, and I still had to face up to the fact that it brought me way down physically and emotionally. However, I do seem fine with corn, rice and, I think, oats. Oddly this doesn’t seem to have any bearing on my RLS, so long as I don’t over consume the oxalate inherent in the grains.

While I haven’t associated it directly with my RLS, I find in myself the symptoms of dosha imbalance as described in ayurvedic medicine. My yoga routine primarily includes poses which are said to pacify an aggravated vata dosha. Much to my surprise, doing these asanas seems to have produced rather dramatic improvements in relieving conditions that indicate this type of dosha imbalance.

On subjects “Indian”, I dearly love the cuisine. And I had bought into the idea that turmeric is a “miracle spice”. I was even taking turmeric capsules as a supplement . . . until I found out it is high in oxalate. After a recent visit to the Bombay Bistro with my good friend Jayakumar, following a long abstinence, even though I thought I was choosing my foods carefully, I had a lot of unpleasant “leg awareness” the next day.

Despite having “low T” (at a number similar to yours) I have avoided the testosterone because I am concerned about the long term effects. I took some DHEA (25mg) for a while, which I understand may be a testosterone precursor. I really felt terrific, but I did some online research and ended up with some concerns about the long term, so I gave it up for now. After reading a number of posts on the very illuminating website of Ray Peat, I have been taking small doses of pregnenalone which is a precursor of DHEA. Dr. Peat is the foremost advocate for the saturated fat coconut oil, which has achieved astounding “cache” in recent years. I also subscribe to his recommendation of avoiding “pufa’s” (polyunsaturated fatty acids) which may be the greatest health problem of our time.

In the absence of any corroborating testimony, I have begun to accept that we are all different and, perhaps, although my relief has been miraculous, others may not be benefiting from my experience. There have been over 1000 views of our conversation and, while this may be only 100 people visiting 10 times each, it is discouraging to me that no one has reported improvements comparable to mine. Before I sign off, for what may be the last time, I want to offer an account of some other factors which may have played a role in my ongoing relief. I daily take in capsule form 100 mg of CoQ-10; 400 iu of Vitamin E (with mixed tocopherols); “Synergy K” with 500 mcg of K1 plus 1000 mcg of K2 menaquinone-4 and 45 mcg of K2 menaquinone-7 plus 1000 iu of Vitamin D; and a heaping teaspoon of magnesium citrate dissolved in water. I could take calcium also, but I enjoy hard cheese several times a day despite being lactose intolerant. And, I do very nicely with a “maintenance dose” of 450 ml of “lean” wine (12 or 12.5% alcohol) in the evenings.

As always, I wish you all the best. And the best of luck to you, Tommy. I can’t tell you how much your participation has meant to me.

Further affiant sayeth not . . .

notnowdad
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby notnowdad » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:00 pm

After another year of success on a Low Oxalate Diet, I have realized that the LOD can lead to magnesium deficiency because many of the foods I avoid are the better sources of magnesium. I am now taking magnesium malate pills with 180 mg of magnesium three times a day: after arising and a half hour before supper and when I wake up briefly around midnight. When I first started the LOD I experienced a surprising surge of a youthful vitality that seemed to taper off over the several years that I have followed the diet. The magnesium supplements seem to have restored that feeling of renewed energy.

I enthusiastically recommend “The Magnesium Miracle” by Carolyn Dean, M.D., N.D., which was extensively revised and updated recently. The latest copyright date in my paperback version shows 2007, but the 89 page updated Introduction at the beginning of the book refers to studies published in 2013, so I’m not sure when it was published. According to Dr. Dean:
- Most Americans are deficient in magnesium.
- The list of medical conditions, including RLS, which may be related to magnesium deficiency is extraordinarily long.
- It can be difficult to restore adequate levels of magnesium with oral supplements due to its laxative effect and multiple small doses can be better than a single large one. Some forms of magnesium can have less of a laxative effect.
- It is virtually impossible to overdose on magnesium because of its laxative effect.
- Starting a magnesium supplementation program may result in an initial loss in well being because magnesium plays a significant role in the body’s detoxification processes and the supplementation may trigger more robust detox for a while. I noticed an increase in body odor for several days.
- Most Americans consume way too much calcium and we need to maintain a roughly 1:1 ratio of these two elements. Antacids can be especially problematic. She recommends avoiding dairy except for butter from grass fed cows.
- Exposure to fluoride can cause magnesium deficiency and fluoridated water is a concern, as is water with high levels of calcium or chlorine.
- Care must be taken because magnesium supplements can interfere with the functioning of many medicines, especially those containing fluoride. She recommends consulting a list of drugs on the website of the “Fluoride Toxicity Research Collaborative”.
- People with the following conditions should avoid oral magnesium supplements: kidney failure, myasthenia gravis, excessively slow heart rate, bowel obstruction.

A few final notes on my personal experience:
- I had been using a mild daily dose of magnesium citrate dissolved in water and believed I was getting benefit from it. When I switched to a similar product with calcium also in it I seemed to lose the benefit of the magnesium. Dr. Dean’s book seemed to have the explanation of why that happened. Too much calcium can interfere with our utilization of magnesium. I then switched to a pill containing 120 mg of magnesium glycinate, which I was taking four times a day.
- A few weeks ago I added a “B-complex” vitamin pill to my daily supplement regimen and it seemed to cause a return of my RLS. The pill was a pungent smelling vegetable and fruit based vitamin source listing over 20 food sources including spinach and beets. I switched to a more refined pill that looks like it came from a laboratory, but the RLS continued to get worse. When it got so bad I couldn’t stand to stay in bed I went to the computer to research oxalate in B vitamin pills. My search led to a Low Oxalate Diet website called oxvox. While I didn’t find any info connecting the B vitamin pills to oxalate, I happened to read the author’s personal story in which she said that magnesium glycinate shouldn’t be used by people on a low oxalate diet because the glycinate breaks down into oxalate! Magnesium supplements come in various forms including magnesium taurate, magnesium orotate, magnesium threonate plus the aforementioned glycinate, citrate, and malate. I saw one posting which said that magnesium oxide, which is considered a poor source of magnesium for people, is also known as magnesium oxalate. After I switched from the glycinate to the magnesium malate the RLS went away within 24 hours. I switched back to the “natural” B-complex pill several days ago and am feeling just fine.
- I have given up drinking iced tea.
- For those who may be concerned with their cholesterol levels: I switched to coconut oil as my primary cooking fat over a year ago. I have continued to use extra virgin olive oil and butter but have tried to avoid the popular polyunsaturated oils (PUFA’s) as much as possible. My “risk ratio” (LDL/HDL) of 2.48 is now where it was in 2001 after getting as high as 4.16.

The fact that, for many months now, over a dozen people a day have been viewing this internet thread suggests to me that someone out there is “spreading the word” and recommending it. I still look forward to hearing of anybody’s personal results with it.

legsbestill
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby legsbestill » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:27 pm

Great news that the low oxalate diet continues to work for you. Your thread is very interesting and I find it hard to believe that a year has passed since I first read it. In that time I have often wondered if it was still working for you. I have formed the intention to follow a low oxalate diet on many occasions - your latest post may be the final push I need! Have also heard of people who have had a lot of success with the fodmap diet. Have you heard of it?

badnights
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Re: Another year of relief

Postby badnights » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 am

Since different diets are successful to various degrees for various people, I have to believe there's something o do with diet that is highily important to conditions like RLS/WED. But is it the same thing for everyone?

I had in mind to try the GAPS diet not the fodmap. I am reluctant to got o a diet that tells me I can eat the things I haven't been eating on the Wahls diet, which has worked halfway for me. But the biggest roadblock to trying any diet is the probable loss of yet another year of my life being a guinea pig at the risk of no gains.

About the low oxalate diet in particular, I haven't addressed points yet:
  • Oxalates are in all of the same foods that are high in salicylates, amines and glutamates with a very few exceptions.
  • Oxalate content of food varies wildly depending on how it is grown, so none of the charts are reliable and accurate and many contradict.
  • Oxalates allegedly “cause” the same set of symptoms that people experience from salicylates, amines and glutamates, yet diets low in these chemicals are well documented to resolve those symptoms.
(from https://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/"


But I reallly love your clear and detailed descriptions of how you tracked down the offending item.... I can relate to that
mindset.

EDITED June 13 for clarity and non-nonsensicalness.
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6532&p=61601#p61601
Discussion Board Moderator's posts don't reflect the RLS Foundation's opinion & are not medical advice

yawny
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Another year of relief

Postby yawny » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:05 pm

NND, Your detailed accounting is very much appreciated and I believe is affecting awareness about the contribution of diet. Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge!

peanut1
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:06 am

Re: Another year of relief

Postby peanut1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:41 pm

Congratulations on the relief! I know I have to be on a paleo diet or I'm in serious RLS pain. I looked at the low oxalate diet and it looks like I'm not eating high oxalate foods anyway. But I could try cutting out walnuts and advacados for a while and see what happens. Like the others, I am skeptical. the only thing that really has worked for me is eating organ meat several times a week.


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