Marijuana and Sleep

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Rustsmith
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Marijuana and Sleep

Postby Rustsmith » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:25 pm

I came across the following article that has a lot of interesting information about how marijuana effects sleep. It is not apparent what she used as a source of information, but a lot of what she says seems to make some sense. It also directionally fits with what all of us know about dopamine and sleep. I know that a very small amount THC certainly helps me far more than any prescribed sleep aid.

I am interested to see what others think about this.

https://www.coloradopotguide.com/colorado-marijuana-blog/2015/march/02/how-cannabis-affects-sleep-patterns/
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

stjohnh
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Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby stjohnh » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:29 pm

I found the article interesting and informative. I am not very well informed about various sleep cycles. I have found that both marijuana and Kratom help my sleep somewhat. Both together help a lot. I take 720 milligrams red Borneo Kratom and 14 milligrams THC edible 2 hours before bedtime. That, in addition to .125 milligrams mirapex, makes me fall asleep very easily. I usually wake up a couple of hours later to use the bathroom. I take an additional 360 milligrams Kratom and 7 milligrams THC at that time, usually between 1 and 3 a.m. This combination typically gives me seven or eight hours sleep. Usually no headache the next day and usually with fairly good energy.
Blessings,
Holland

badnights
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Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby badnights » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:56 am

I followed one of the links in that article to another article that reports on a study of 24 long-term mj users. They and controls were given a stimulant that raises dopamine levels, which did indeed rise in both groups. But the long-term marijuana users had "significantly blunted behavioral, cardiovascular, and brain dopamine responses to the stimulant. Their heart rate and blood pressure were lower in comparison, and they reported feeling restlessness and anxiety. Same amount of dopamine but weaker (or lack of) physical responses suggests the reward circuitry in their brains are damaged."
Yikes. I guess like any other medication, day in day out use of mj should be avoided if possible.

EDIT I forgot to mention what actually interested me the most, which was in the first article - the evidence, still preliminary, that mj can stabilize breathing and reduce apneas in patients with sleep-related apneas. Debbluebird ... check it out
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

ethan
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Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby ethan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:36 am

Beth,

I mean no disrespect but there are lots and lots of people who use cannabis daily and don't seem to suffer long term physical issues. In fact, a recent study came out that showed this. That being said, this study didn't assess for mental health issues...just physical and the only thing they found was increased incidence of gum disease:
http://www.columbian.com/news/2016/jun/ ... l-effects/

badnights
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Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby badnights » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:54 am

I mean no disrespect but there are lots and lots of people who use cannabis daily and don't seem to suffer long term physical issues

There are not many studies of long-term daily users, as you might know, so it's not generally possible to say what the effects would be under any given circumstances. The data simply isn't there. People who seem to be fine - the lots of people you know of, and the lots of my friends and relatives who use weed daily - might have various effects from daily use that you and I and they would never know about, because they don't seem to suffer any issues. That's why studies like the one I quoted are interesting. It's doubly interesting because our disease involves dopamine dysfunction.

Some of us have talked a lot about alternating medications to avoid tolerance and side effects. I'm dealing with some debilitating side effects right now that I hope to eliminate by switching from daily use of the medication I'm on to some other schedule (I just have to figure out what to alternate it with, no easy feat). I'm also on two other meds that I can't take daily because of side effects. So now I see a study that implies a negative effect from daily use of yet another substance. Yikes, is nothing safe.

I hope I've clarified the context of my comment for you and everyone else. You might be interested to know that 10 or so years ago, I could find only one study that followed daily marijuana users for a period longer than a year or two. I think they were followed for 10 years or more, it was pretty exceptional but only a small number of subjects. That study showed a mild cognitive decline in daily users as compared to non-users, and was unable to detect any other ill effects, but I admit I now forget what they tested for. More recently, a number of studies suggest a cause-and-effect relationship between daily marijuana use in susceptible teenagers and the development of schizophrenia.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

Rustsmith
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby Rustsmith » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:49 am

There is currently an ongoing research study at the Jewish Hospital in Denver, Colorado that is investigating the use of marijuana for insomnia. Their plan is to recruit 1000 participants in the study all of whom have been using marijuana for more than a year to combat insomnia. One sixth of their cohort will have home sleep studies. Everyone will have blood tests and will undergo periodic interviews.

So, hopefully this is a sign that there will be more researach studies conducted as marijuana use becomes partially legal around the US.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

ethan
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Re: Marijuana and Sleep

Postby ethan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:34 pm

badnights wrote:
I mean no disrespect but there are lots and lots of people who use cannabis daily and don't seem to suffer long term physical issues

There are not many studies of long-term daily users, as you might know, so it's not generally possible to say what the effects would be under any given circumstances. The data simply isn't there. People who seem to be fine - the lots of people you know of, and the lots of my friends and relatives who use weed daily - might have various effects from daily use that you and I and they would never know about, because they don't seem to suffer any issues. That's why studies like the one I quoted are interesting. It's doubly interesting because our disease involves dopamine dysfunction.

Some of us have talked a lot about alternating medications to avoid tolerance and side effects. I'm dealing with some debilitating side effects right now that I hope to eliminate by switching from daily use of the medication I'm on to some other schedule (I just have to figure out what to alternate it with, no easy feat). I'm also on two other meds that I can't take daily because of side effects. So now I see a study that implies a negative effect from daily use of yet another substance. Yikes, is nothing safe.

I hope I've clarified the context of my comment for you and everyone else. You might be interested to know that 10 or so years ago, I could find only one study that followed daily marijuana users for a period longer than a year or two. I think they were followed for 10 years or more, it was pretty exceptional but only a small number of subjects. That study showed a mild cognitive decline in daily users as compared to non-users, and was unable to detect any other ill effects, but I admit I now forget what they tested for. More recently, a number of studies suggest a cause-and-effect relationship between daily marijuana use in susceptible teenagers and the development of schizophrenia.



Beth,

I think it is a bad idea for developing brains to be exposed to regular cannabis users. If you dig deeper into the research it seems like cannabis expedites the onset of schizoprenia in susceptible people...not that it causes it. While it may not be a benign substance, it has been used for thousands of years. The pharma industry in many ways is a dirty industry...especially those hawking pych meds....have a look at the book "Anatomy of an Epidemic" which presents a compelling argument that SSRIs may actually cause bigger issues.

Also how many really long term studies exist for most drugs? I took ambien for many years before I determined my sleep issue was due to movements. I wonder if that negatively effected my memory.

There are also studies suggesting cannabis is neuroprotective which is interesting.

Finally the government is slowly starting to do more studies on cannabis and the State of CO is also doing them. I think we will get more clarity on this in the future.

Ultimately this boils down to each person making a judgement call. I personally would rather use cannabis daily if it means I don't have to take a drug like a benzo or other sedative.

This is a bit off topic but lets not forget that alcohol is by far the most dangerous drug in the world and accounts for more harm than any other intoxicant by far. It is extremely damaging to the brain at higher doses...much more so than cannabis.


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