Kratom tolerance question

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Goodnightangel01
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:45 am

Kratom tolerance question

Postby Goodnightangel01 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:46 am

Hi everyone,

From the tons of posts I've read over the past few months or so, I decided to try Kratom. I looked at a few websites and found one that I felt was presented well and had a lot of good customer reviews, so I gave it a shot. Www.buykratom.us. Their customer service is prompt if you happen to have had issues with the shipping which I had the first time (I paid extra for next day shipping but it was delivered a day late and it had a money back guarantee on the delivery date so they responded to my message within hours and acted quickly to reimburse me the money I paid for the shipping) or if something is wrong with the package which was my last shipment because it looked like someone at the post office took a box cutter to something without realizing my package was underneath it. It sliced through both of the packages of Kratom which affected one more than the other and spilled some of the contents inside the package it shipped in. So they responded within hours again, and have shipped me my order again at no charge.

Anyway, that's just about the vendor who seem really good if anyone is interested in checking them out. On to the Kratom itself....when I first ordered the Kratom I got the Horned Red Vein and took a teaspoon of the powder and weighed it on our food scale which was about 2 g. I had read about taking it with orange juice, I had made sure to start only with the 2 g for my first dose and see how it went. It didn't really do anything at 2 g so I took another teaspoon and that was when I really felt it. It felt really calming, soothing and almost as if I was being wrapped in a warm blanket; serene. The restlessness melted away and I drifted off into sleep. It wasn't a deep sleep, but it was calming and I was rid of the restlessness so I was happy. I thought that I had found the ticket to calming the madness inside my legs, lower back, and sometimes my arms.

What I didn't really know much about was how often you could take it and I was in a really bad flare so I basically just kept the warm relaxed feeling going until the restlessness had passed. Unfortunately I had run out of the Kratom rather quickly because I didn't order much, not knowing what it would be like or how I would react to it so I didn't feel like spending more money than necessary if it turned out to be something I wouldn't use again. So the next time I ordered it I tried a different red vein variety. Thai Red Vein. This one wasn't as potent as the Horned Red but I also ordered the Horned Red with it so that I could have that in case the smaller size of the Thai Red Vein wasn't helpful for the restlessness. It helped, but I realized I needed to take more of the Thai Red Vein to feel the relief I felt with the Horned Red. Then I realized that I had to increase the amount of Horned Red I was taking to get the relief from the restlessness and I didn't really think much of it apart from the fact that this stuff isn't regulated and so the potency of each batch is likely varried, which would explain why I had to take a little more this shipment than last. But then I decided to search these boards again and started to worry that I had developed a tolerance. It's been about three weeks (as I said I didn't order much each time just to be on the safe side so I didn't end up spending too much and having a bunch left over of something I might not use again) and in my last order I ordered a larger size of the Thai Red Vein because I liked that it was gentler than the Horned Red and still gave me the relief. The Horned Red made me REALLY itchy (the first batch I had ordered, not so much the second) and the Thai didn't seem to do that at all. I also ordered their Stem and Vein variety because the description stated that it would enhance the relaxing aroma of the Kratom to reduce tolerance. I've tried it since I received it and I don't really feel the same relief that I did that first time. I am still using orange juice, evenly measured teaspoon and I do the "toss and wash" with the powder and orange juice because it's just faster and easier for me to get it down. I don't like the way it tastes.

I have also experienced constipation so bad that it reminded me of when I was first prescribed Adderall XR for my narcolepsy to combat the daytime sleepiness. I have read that the Kratom can make you constipated so I've made sure that I'm taking my probiotic daily and eating more leafy greens and all that jazz. But man oh man this stuff can back you up something FIERCE if you're not aware that it will do that to you. I only was aware of it AFTER I came back here to search through the forums and found that other people mentioned this side effect and was relieved that it was because of the Kratom since that was the only thing I had done differently.

Anyway....I don't want to over do it so I've just stayed with three teaspoons (6 g) of the Thai Red Vein for fear of building even more of a tolerance than I already have (if that's what this is) but does anyone have any insight into their experiences with it? Do you find that the relief you get from your restlessness carries between batches? Are there any helpful tips as to how you can prevent building this tolerance, or, if you have some level of tolerance is there any way that you can get your body back to a level of homeostasis so that you can take a smaller dose and feel the same relief that you had felt the first time you took it?

I am not looking to get high or take this recreationally, I just want relief and was thrilled when I found that this could help. It just hasn't been as helpful since and I know that it's likely that I wasn't sure how much to take and how often to take it and so I just kept it at an effective level for me at the time during a severe flare.

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Thank you!

jul2873
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby jul2873 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:55 pm

I've been taking kratom every day for almost 4 years now. I've never taken any Rx drugs for my RLS, and I think they may affect the way subsequent drugs work--not sure about that. (I did try gabapentim for a very short time but got no relief, only side effects, so stopped).

At any rate, I started with a very small dose--about half a gram--which I took throughout the night when I needed it--usually three or four times. I used only Red Vein Borneo. About two years ago (not sure, didn't keep track) I upped my dose to a gram at a time, and still needed three or four doses to get me through a night. Then about a year ago, I found myself needed two grams the first or second times I woke up, although the gram dose was still fine for the rest of the day. By then I was often needing it during the day, esp. if I wanted to nap, or was doing much driving or riding in a car (or flying!! I always need way more when I fly).

Currently, I've stopped worrying about how much I take altogether in a day (I figure I'm 72, and just want to feel well. I won't live forever anyway). I make up a tray of Red V. Borneo 2 gram doses, and then two or three doses of Maeng Da or a Green strain. I use the red doses in the night, and again usually need three or four to get me through the night. Then I switch to the green or MD, as they are not sedating, and help wake me up.

I am pretty sure my RLS has progressed over the years, as it was progressing fast when I started taking kratom. But the kratom keeps me comfortable most of the time. Sometimes when I want to cut down on my tolerance I'll cut my doses and then walk a bit in the night to get back to sleep. I used to worry more and do that more, but now I don't. I'm just really grateful for the kratom.

Good luck to you. I think it's helpful to keep in mind that it's not a perfect drug, and almost certainly won't get you through the night. You'll need at least a couple of doses. But the lack of side effects, and my ability to control how much I take make it a very appealing drug for me. Oh, and the orange juice works better if you let the kratom sit in it for at least twenty minutes so it dissolves first. Then shake it up and it's not too bad to drink.

jul2873
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby jul2873 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:15 pm

Oops. Forgot the constipation issue. Sorry.

When I take just the Red Vein Borneo I have little or no problem, esp. if I also take two tablets at night of chelated magnesium. When I added in the Maeng Da and green vein, I need to add two tablets of magnesium in the morning as well, and occasionally I'll take some Senna Plus. I do watch it, and if it starts, I'm quick to add more magnesium and some senna.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 14651
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby ViewsAskew » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:13 pm

I can only answer the constipation question. I mix 28 grams of kratom with a couple tablespoons for orange flavored Metamucil. I add enough frozeb juice concentrate to set up as a thick gelatinous substance. Then I cut it into 14 squares. Then I don't have constipation issues and it tastes OK!
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

cloverdr
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:17 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby cloverdr » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:45 pm

I recently started taking Kratom, red vein bornio. After reading the success of many of bloggers on this discussion board. I was on 10 mg
of methadone,but did not like the drugged feeling I was having during the day, thus started on kratom. I started with 2 grams at 8pm, recently
increasing to 3 grams. The first night I felt a little nauseated , but that stopped after the first night. There is no doubting my mind that it works. About a half hour after taking it, my body feels very relaxed, and at night during sleep when the RLS acts up it is very mild, almost just
a mild twitching that only lasts a hour then I fall asleep. About 50 percent of the time I don't have any symptoms of RLS. I recently dropped my
methadone down to 7.5 mg, hoping to get to 5 mg soon. The only negative thing I found on Kratine was that if you take to much at one time your body may reject it, causing you to vomit. Most things I read said 3 to 4 grams should be sufficient. I fold a piece of paper in half put some
orange juice in my mouth, dump the Kratom in, add more OJ than swallow. It tasted like dirt. In fact my son said his friends take it for the effects and the street name is dirt. I recently purchased a large amount due to the fact that some states are banning it. Good luck

stjohnh
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby stjohnh » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:10 pm

cloverdr wrote:I recently started taking Kratom, red vein bornio. After reading the success of many of bloggers on this discussion board. I was on 10 mg
of methadone,but did not like the drugged feeling I was having during the day...


Cloverdr, while kratom is very helpful, it isn't as strong at controlling RLS leg jumping as methadone. I don't think there are many people that can successfully switch from methadone to kratom. Some of the side effects of methadone go away after a few weeks, but it varies from person to person. The main side effect of kratom is its tendency to cause paralytic ileus, the intestines go to sleep, (constipation is the mild form of this) usually lasting 1-5 days, so I would increase the dose slowly and not increase above the dose that causes a bit of constipation. This may be hard to judge, since methadone also may cause constipation.

Kratom effects last 2-4 hours, and most people using it take at least 2 doses per night, I think the average is 3 doses per night. I would first change from 3g before bed to 2 g before bed and an additional 2g 3 hours after the first.

Even so, you may be able to get satisfactory sleep and fewer side effects by using both kratom and methadone together, rather than methadone alone.

Another possibility if you continue to have marked side effects from methadone is to use a lower dose of methadone and a very small dose of pramipexole. Also, only the folks with mild RLS can get away with no drug side effects. Most of us with moderate to severe RLS have to put up with at least some drug side effects.
Blessings,
Holland

veldon75
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby veldon75 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:25 pm

I am getting ready to start back on Kratom, I tried it before with orange j but I don't want all the sugar so I put it in capsules does anyone know how many capsules I should start with, I am weaning off Mirapex

veldon75
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby veldon75 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:27 pm

I am getting ready to start back on Kratom, I tried it before with orange j but I don't want all the sugar so I put it in capsules does anyone know how many capsules I should start with, I am weaning off Mirapex

stjohnh
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby stjohnh » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:08 pm

I'd start with two capsules, 0-0 size. Each 0-0 capsule holds about 350 mg of Kratom with casual filling technique. If packed hard and fully you can get about 500 mg in a 0-0 capsule.

If you haven't completely stopped the mirapex, when you stop the mirapex you will likely be miserable for a few days, the Kratom will help but you will still be miserable.
Blessings,
Holland

veldon75
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:45 pm

Re: Kratom tolerance question

Postby veldon75 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:20 pm

I'm still on .25 of Mirapex I was on .75 divided starting around 2 pm to bedtime, I'm gonna try to go off completely soon, I was miserable the last time I tried to stop, couldn't do it too tired! thanks for the info!


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