Trying out Kratom

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
Eternityroad
Posts: 104
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:40 pm

Friends,
After reading the posts about Kratom and wishing to cut back on the Hydrocodone I went to a local and reputable smoke shop today and purchased a jar of the Red Vein powder. (I am aware I can buy it for less online, but I wanted to try it right away) I took some a half-hour ago, 2:00 pm. It had been over twelve hours since my last hydrocodone dose and I was beginning to get the squirms. I took 1 and 1/3 tsp. Kratom in orange-flavored fiber preparation. The taste of the leaves came through but did not bother me, though. I chewed lots of peyote back in the day and if you can get past that taste you can take anything! Anyway, right now, though I do not feel in the least euphoric, the squirmy legs are no longer a bother. So I am satisfied with the results thus far and will experiment. There remains the issue of distinguishing whether the squirms after 12 hours are RLS or my body jones-ing for Hydrocodone.

Thanx to those who posted about Kratom.

Ken

ViewsAskew
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Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby ViewsAskew » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:27 pm

YAY!
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:29 pm

Any hints on how I might experiment with this with an eye to cutting down/out the Lortab are much appreciated.

jul2873
Posts: 372
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Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby jul2873 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:40 am

I've used kratom for over four years now, to manage my RLS, but it's all I've used, so I don't know how you would use it to taper off of other medications. I would just caution you not to chase the euphoria. From what I've read and experienced myself, any euphoria is short-lived and just pushes you to take more kratom than you need for pain or RLS relief. It sounds like you took about three grams. That is probably how much you need since you're coming off of an opioid. Since the kratom tree doesn't make time-released leaves, you'll probably need to take a dose every two to four hours. I make up doses ahead of time (kratom dissolved in a little orange juice) and keep them in the refrigerator for when I need them. Good luck.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:03 am

I've used kratom for over four years now, to manage my RLS, but it's all I've used, so I don't know how you would use it to taper off of other medications. I would just caution you not to chase the euphoria. From what I've read and experienced myself, any euphoria is short-lived and just pushes you to take more kratom than you need for pain or RLS relief. It sounds like you took about three grams. That is probably how much you need since you're coming off of an opioid. Since the kratom tree doesn't make time-released leaves, you'll probably need to take a dose every two to four hours. I make up doses ahead of time (kratom dissolved in a little orange juice) and keep them in the refrigerator for when I need them. Good luck.


You are correct. I took about three grams and no euphoria. That is OK. I went 8 hours without needing another dose or any lortab and 20 hours since I last took a lortab. In the eight years I had been on lortab I have never gone more than 12 hours without having to re-up. This makes me think that the squirmy legs in my case were more a result of withdrawal from the opioid than restless legs itself.

Thanks for your input.

click4it
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby click4it » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:31 am

Thanks for posting this Ken.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:37 am

Thanks for posting this Ken.


No prob. I have been posting here over the years and am grateful for the info and advice I have received.

badnights
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Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby badnights » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:28 am

I am not sure you can distinguish between WED/RLS symptoms and withdrawal yet, nor on that basis. It could take longer than 70 hours for the hydrocodone withdarawal to be over (days to weeks is possible). Until then, you can't be sure if the kratom is treating withdrawal or treating WED/RLS.

But regardless, you have used a 3g dose to control symptoms for 8 hrs. If it's WED, and mild enough to be dealt with that way, that's good.
Beth - Wishing you all restful sleep tonight
WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6532&p=61601#p61601
Discussion Board Moderator's posts don't reflect the RLS Foundation's opinion & are not medical advice

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:22 am

I am not sure you can distinguish between WED/RLS symptoms and withdrawal yet, nor on that basis. It could take longer than 70 hours for the hydrocodone withdarawal to be over (days to weeks is possible). Until then, you can't be sure if the kratom is treating withdrawal or treating WED/RLS.

But regardless, you have used a 3g dose to control symptoms for 8 hrs. If it's WED, and mild enough to be dealt with that way, that's good.


Good to hear. Thanks.

neoleopard
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 am

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby neoleopard » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:14 pm

Not a good idea to mix anything, and Kratom is no different. How else can you be sure of how it impacts your body.

I get 5- 8 hours of relief with 1.25 -1.5 tsp which is about 2 to 3 grams max of Kratom. The longer I use it, the longer I can go without RLS symptoms between doses. I have never been on anything stronger than Ropinerol by choice. Augmentation is hell...

Now, Kratom is the only thing I use for my RLS. However, I did a serious neurologist detox to combat serious heavy metal toxicity and I follow a strict diet to assure i do not ingest anything that is an exitotoxin to my body. I am finishing year 3 of a GF/DF/GMO free diet that is only non-processed foods. I only eat organic period. Only meat I consume: bison, beef, chicken, turkey (grasped/organic) Limit sugar intake to no more than 30 grams/day.
I avoid my personal foo triggers. I kept a journal to identify what those are.
NO pork (GMO) or seafood (mercury/plastics) NO MSG
Eggs are not considered dairy.
I have found wonderful dairy substitutes far more decadently delicious and I
I am willing to share with anyone interested. It is essentially a Strict Paleo/Vegan/Keto diet.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:39 am

Neo,
Thanks for replying. Next week it will be four months since beginning my Kratom regimen. I am off the hydrocodone but for a couple of tabs twice a week which I take to give the body a break from the Kratom. I measure my K. in teaspoons and keep a strict record of quantity and time I take it. I average 16 tsp/day. Normal dose has been two tsp every three hours. But lately I sometimes can get by with 1 tsp. Some evenings and mornings the RLS gets bad (usually around 7 pm and 3 am). Then I take 4 tsp and am good to go for quite some time. I notice two types of bodily sensation when it is time to take it. One is a vague discomfort but if I am very focused on something I forget about it and I may go another hour or so without it bothering me and having the need to dose. The other discomfort is rapid onset and intense need to walk around, watery eyes and inability to sit still at all. That usually occurs in the evening and early morning at the times I mentioned above. I quickly take 4 tsp to alleviate the symptoms. So we have the mild and the agonizing. Some days I don't get the type two onset (agonizing) and we're all good. Dosage and symptoms onset vary from day to day but as I said I average 16 tsp day.

I am glad you mention the importance of diet and overall health. Everything we can do on those lines is certain to help the cause.

Eternityroad

pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby pinkynose » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:54 am

Ten days ago I got off both oxycodone and hydrocodone. I weaned down using the Kratom. I was advised to alternate doses. One opioid then 4 hours later Kratom, etc. When I got down to a low enough dose I quit the opioids and just used the Kratom. I was told to not take both within at least 4 hours or they would in simple terms cancel each other out as they primarily effect the same receptors. It was a pretty easy withdrawal this way. My biggest issue was some of the strains I thought worked the best when I was weaning do not now that I’m off completely and I ordered fairly large amounts of those strains. Not a big deal but good to know if any of you are considering going off these type of meds.

Eternityroad
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby Eternityroad » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:20 am

I weaned myself off opioids gradually also, although not as regimented. I want to try different strains but fear they may not be as potent. My last two batches of red borneo were darker in color and seemed less potent. I got a brand new batch the other day which is the bright green I had begun with. I can get by on less, one gram every three hours during the day. All this makes me NOT want to experiment with different strains.

stjohnh
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Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby stjohnh » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:43 pm

Eternityroad wrote:I weaned myself off opioids gradually also, although not as regimented. I want to try different strains but fear they may not be as potent. My last two batches of red borneo were darker in color and seemed less potent. I got a brand new batch the other day which is the bright green I had begun with. I can get by on less, one gram every three hours during the day. All this makes me NOT want to experiment with different strains.


This is one of the problems with this type of supplement, variation from batch to batch and from vendor to vendor. I agree with pinkynose and when I find a batch I like I buy a large supply. The general thought is that Kratom is quite to stable and stores well, and because of possible DEA/FDA restrictions, I keep a large stash at home. It is available from several vendors at $100 per kilogram or less.
Blessings,
Holland

pinkynose
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Trying out Kratom

Postby pinkynose » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:22 pm

stjohnh wrote:
Eternityroad wrote:I weaned myself off opioids gradually also, although not as regimented. I want to try different strains but fear they may not be as potent. My last two batches of red borneo were darker in color and seemed less potent. I got a brand new batch the other day which is the bright green I had begun with. I can get by on less, one gram every three hours during the day. All this makes me NOT want to experiment with different strains.


This is one of the problems with this type of supplement, variation from batch to batch and from vendor to vendor. I agree with pinkynose and when I find a batch I like I buy a large supply. The general thought is that Kratom is quite to stable and stores well, and because of possible DEA/FDA restrictions, I keep a large stash at home. It is available from several vendors at $100 per kilogram or less.


I can understand you not wanting to experiment with different strains. However, rotating strains is one of the best ways to not have to increase tolerance. Also, their are a number of potentiators that may help you to take less. (I'mtrying to attach a file that has a list.) Anyway, I went a different route and bought a few sample kits from 3 different vendors and have been experimenting, Two of the vendors I am happy with, the 3rd I dropped. I also have been doing a lot of research about the different strains. My main health issue is idiopathic small fiber neuropathy. I have RLS as secondary. What I use would not necessarily work for you because my main concern
Kratom Potentiators.pdf
(61.82 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
is pain (burning in my legs.) I hopethis helps. carol


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