Suicidal thoughts

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srgraves01
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Suicidal thoughts

Postby srgraves01 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:46 am

I listened with great interest to the recorded webinar on Opioids and RLS today. One of the things I found especially interesting was his survey on how people, who I believe have gone through augmentation, were helped by opioids to have a reduction in suicidal thoughts. I think his measure was the number of people who had suicidal thoughts before opioids and the number of people who had suicidal thoughts after opioids use -- and the reduction that followed. I am willing to bet that those who still had suicidal thoughts after taking opioids also had a reduced frequency of those thoughts after taking opioids. I was also very interested in and a little surprised by him saying that he quickly went to methadone as his drug of choice for treatment after augmentation.

I have to admit that I am one of those people who has had suicidal thoughts. Although I do not want other people to have suicidal thoughts, his data made me somewhat relieved that I am not alone in this.

Steve

JulHer1968
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby JulHer1968 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:03 am

Hi Steve. I know you posted almost a month ago. I was up tonight - again - and read your comment. MY apologies for the delay, but I thought it was an important enough topic that I would reply. I have been seeing more and more about suicide and RLS. I just wanted to say that I hope you are sharing your thoughts with someone and getting the help and support you need to prevent an attempt or worse. The frustration of dealing with this disorder plus the lack of sleep we suffer can lead to depression. I hope you won't let it go untreated. I'll be thinking about you and hoping that you are feeling better.
Julie
Julie

Rustsmith
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Rustsmith » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:51 pm

JulHer1968, at the RLS Foundation patient conference last fall, Karla asked for a show of hands of who in the audience has considered suicide. The response was almost unanimous. Since we are faced with with an incurable condition that causes sleep deprivation and the ensuing depression and this is compounded by loneliness of being awake at all hours while others are asleep, it isn't too surprising that this is a subject that keeps raising its very ugly head.

In my case, my neurologist insisted that I get the type of help that you suggested. I been to one appointment and like her and she seems to understand the issues associated with RLS, but I wasn't in immediate need of help at the time so we left it as I will call when I need help. I am not too sure what she will be able to do for me if (or when) that time comes. Treating me with anti-depressants may help the severe depression, but will almost certainly put my RLS into overdrive. To me this seems like giving double doses of dopamine agonists to someone in augmentation. It may address an immediate issue, but it simply trades one problem for another that is longer term.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:15 am

I have suicidal thoughts when I'm not getting much sleep. I don't see a way around it when you aren't sleeping. Somehow though I have managed to get through it, by seeing new doctors and changing meds.
The one time that I was feeling the worst was when I was taking Lyrica. Stopped that gradually, when I was first given methadone. At the time I was taking 5 meds. I slowly weaned off all of them, after adding the methadone. It saved me that time.
Now I'm trying to wean off methadone. Such as life.

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:23 am

As I was laying awake tonight, I am thinking that I am probably depressed. I have no energy to get anything done, I have to force myself and I'm not going anywhere. I am hopeful that better weather will help, plus when the snow melts.

stjohnh
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby stjohnh » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:57 pm

Deb, so sorry about your situation. Depression is an awful feeling. You could have SAD, seasonal affective disorder, depression due to inadequate sun. Obviously more common in the far north parts of the globe. Lack of sleep will increase depressive symptoms, as will chronic pain.

Suicidal thoughts like "I'd be better off dead" and "I wish I could go to sleep and not wake up" are nearly universal in people, nearly everyone will have those types of thoughts at some time in their lives.

More serious are thoughts like "I could kill myself with the pills in my cabinet," or "it wouldn't hurt if I took a gun and shot myself in the head." There is a hierarchy of suicidal thoughts with the top being "Everyone in my life would be better off if I'm dead so I'm going to get the gun in the drawer and kill myself now." Risk for completed suicide is greatest when people have recurrent suicidal thoughts, the thoughts include a specific way to kill yourself, the means is readily available (drugs, razor blades, guns, etc), the person gives a "call for help" (like a Facebook posting that I don't have anything to live for) and the person has made suicidal attempts in the past.

Having significant suicidal thoughts is a psychiatric emergency. People with those should see their doctor that day, go to an emergency room, call 911 or call a suicide hotline. If you are aware of someone in that situation they should not be left alone until they get help.
Blessings,
Holland

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:29 am

Thanks for your concern and information. The logical person in me says call 911. The thing is I did call for help 2 or 3 years ago. That was when they had asked me to stop methadone. (My Pulmonary Doc) I wasn't sleeping. I went to my primary Doctor, but didn't see my regular Doctor. Told her everything. I was desperate. She had my husband drive me to the hospital ER. She called ahead. They wouldn't keep me at the hospital. They transferred me to a psych hospital. I just wanted to sleep, more than anything. I told them if I couldn't sleep, I wanted to die. They ordered a med that made my legs worse instead of helping me sleep. It did not help. I was there for three days, walking the halls. I kept running into the walls. I was out of it. I'm surprised that I didn't fall. They did not help me. They ignored me. I went home. Went back to my clinic and saw my regular Doctor. She had me restart the methadone. It was one of the worst experiences I ever went through.
So if I ever get that bad again, I'm not sure what I will do.
I forgot to say that I get my Vit D level checked yearly. I take Vit D.
You know, I think part of my depression is because of my son in law dying. Knowing what my daughter and grandchildren are going through, I feel their pain. He was only 47. It is a nightmare.

stjohnh
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby stjohnh » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:42 am

The feeling of being trapped with no solution in sight is a sign of depression as well. You have certainly had some bad luck with incompetent doctors, and yes it happens all too often. In your "I'm tired" thread I suggested increasing your kratom, check there. You can certainly call a suicide hotline and it has almost no downside. It's fine to call even if you feel you are not at immediate risk of actually attempting suicide. There are antidepressants that don't seem to affect RLS. I have taken Cymbalta myself without any increase in RLS symptoms.
Blessings,
Holland

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:30 pm

Thank you.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby ViewsAskew » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:03 pm

I often realize MUCH after it started that I am depressed. It seems that my brain doesn't put it together until it's really, really crappy. A few years ago, I used to joke with people that I'd jump off a cliff except I had no energy to find a cliff and the first story window in my house wasn't helpful.

YIKES!!!!

I think I said that for at least a year before I finally realized I had to do something about it.

Deb - your son-in-law is a HUGE loss to you and your family. One of the things that I've noticed is that because of the meds that change our brain chemistry along with the lack of sleep many of us still have, my "rope" is more link a 2 cm string. It does not take much at all to put me over some unseen edge and into a dark place.

Seems to me that most of us should have regular mental health check ins.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:59 am

Yes, I have 2 sleepless nights and I am a basket case.
Ann, it is not so much that he died, it's what it's done to my daughter.

ViewsAskew
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:54 am

debbluebird wrote:Yes, I have 2 sleepless nights and I am a basket case.
Ann, it is not so much that he died, it's what it's done to my daughter.


That has to be hard, watching how it is affecting her.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Polar Bear
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Polar Bear » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:34 pm

debbluebird wrote:
Yes, I have 2 sleepless nights and I am a basket case.
Ann, it is not so much that he died, it's what it's done to my daughter.


Such a hard time ....
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

srgraves01
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby srgraves01 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:25 am

I had checked my original comment and saw no additional ones so I quit checking for a while. Thanks for all of your advice and expressions of support. DebBluebird, I am so sorry to hear of your situation. I have found that some of my worst times were when I was taking Lyrica, or Neurontin. Dr. B said that both of these medications should be increased gradually from a low dose and if depression symptoms occur then to cut back or eliminate depending on the situation. Some of my other worst times were when I would be trying to take a drug holiday from an opiate like hydrocodone or hydromorphone and I would only take an marginally effective drug like diazepam.

When I experienced augmentation the second time it was worse because I slept very little during the day or night. One thing that seemed to help me as a stop gap was alprazolam. It stopped my jerking which is my main problem since my augmentation. The higher the dose of a DA like Mirapex you are taking, the worse your augmentation. I was taking 2mg , so mine was pretty bad. Anyway, alprazolam made me stupid, but it was better than the agony of not sleeping at all. And you develop a tolerance to it quickly, so it is not a long term solution.

Also, when I took dipyridamole; at first it seemed like it might help my calves if I took less than 125 mg. I thought that I might try lowering the dose to 50 or 75 mg to see what would happened. After about 3 weeks, it was awful. I had at least 3 days where I couldn't sleep, day or night. So I stopped. So it may be that for people with severe RLS, where you have been through augmentation, dipyridamole could likely not be a good drug to take. I think the best solution is to try to find something else that works.

Good luck,

Steve

debbluebird
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Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby debbluebird » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 pm

Thanks Steve. I think I Just have to keep weaning the Methadone. Then pray I can get rid of gabapentin next.
My husband weaned off his oxycodone. It's been about a month. The doctor said to him to stay off 3 months before restarting it. So he has 2 months left to go. He's pretty miserable too. Most of the withdrawal is over. Now it's the pain.


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