Suicidal thoughts

Use this forum to discuss any issues associated with Augmentation
Bridgercan
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Bridgercan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:35 am

I’m kinda just putting this out there: for me, I have two types of depression: one is definitely related to opioids and the other is what I call organic—the depression that comes from within, decidedly not from opioids. Both types, if severe enough, lead my thoughts to suicide ideation. I’m in a mixed cycle: depressed from oxy and depressed from sleep deprivation, loneliness, marital turbulence, cognitive decline, and no energy. My therapist suggested today I might be in crisis. I considered that for a moment and answered no, it seems more accurate to say I’m having very serious issues. I know what crisis is after two suicide attempts. Then this afternoon my spouse and I had a bad fight, and even though we talked later on, things remain unresolved, neither of us feels heard, hurt feelings linger. Of course, my RLS came up, and it’s a radioactive issue.

Am I in danger of harming myself? No, but I do have ideation, and my therapist knows this. She’s given me her mobile number and that of the local suicide prevention hotline. I just want to be able to describe it to people who get it, as in you all :D

I used to feel gratitude for all the blessings I’ve had, but it’s very hard for me to feel it these days. Without it, I feel unmoored, really at sea in heavy weather, and things look far worse than they are. A year ago, when I was in the throes of augmentation, writhing on the couch or floor for hours on end, I told myself it’s not cancer and it’s not pain. That gave me a bit of a reality check, and in that space I could feel some calm and gratitude. But now, things just seem to be spinning away from me, and I’m getting tired of keeping my head above water...

It’d be nice to have my old self back even just for day: optimistic, patient, motivated, even-tempered, resilient, grateful. Someone who sleeps eight hours and feels rested and ready to get at the day. Everyone here I believe would relish that too.

I mourn the loss of that self. The journey that is chronic disease is partly one of mourning. It’s also one of enjoying what you still can do, taking pleasure in it, and being grateful for it. Writing that does make me feel better, that my equilibrium can and will return. I’ll be ok, everyone. Well, it’s time to see if Hypnos will grant me some sleep tonight...

Rustsmith
Moderator
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm
Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Rustsmith » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:41 pm

Bridgercan, I too am susceptible to both organic and medication driven depression. I am fortunate that my wife is very supportive and understanding of my RLS. She also has a chronic neurological condition, so she has an idea of what I am going through and my RLS has given me greater appreciation of what she has. Without her in my life, I am almost certain that I would not be here today.

I was fortunate that my doctor referred me to a behavioral health provider who has expertise in pharmacokinetics. She had done her research before I saw her the first time and was very familiar with all the do's and don't's when it comes to treating RLS. I am fortunate that my current opioid is Tramadol ER. Tramadol is a mild opioid that also has properties of an SNRI anti-depressant. This is something that most doctors (even my RLS specialist) are not familiar with. They mentally put it into one box when it really needs to be in two. If you ask about it, don't be surprised if you hear something like "well, it isn't used for that purpose". But, the downside of Tramadol is that it is the only non-DA that can cause augmentation. I have asked my RLS specialist to occasionally switch between Tramadol and methadone. Her response when I brought it up was that we will discuss it at our next appointment.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 15646
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:17 pm

Bridgercan wrote:I’m kinda just putting this out there: for me, I have two types of depression: one is definitely related to opioids and the other is what I call organic—the depression that comes from within, decidedly not from opioids. Both types, if severe enough, lead my thoughts to suicide ideation. I’m in a mixed cycle: depressed from oxy and depressed from sleep deprivation, loneliness, marital turbulence, cognitive decline, and no energy. My therapist suggested today I might be in crisis. I considered that for a moment and answered no, it seems more accurate to say I’m having very serious issues. I know what crisis is after two suicide attempts. Then this afternoon my spouse and I had a bad fight, and even though we talked later on, things remain unresolved, neither of us feels heard, hurt feelings linger. Of course, my RLS came up, and it’s a radioactive issue.

Am I in danger of harming myself? No, but I do have ideation, and my therapist knows this. She’s given me her mobile number and that of the local suicide prevention hotline. I just want to be able to describe it to people who get it, as in you all :D

I used to feel gratitude for all the blessings I’ve had, but it’s very hard for me to feel it these days. Without it, I feel unmoored, really at sea in heavy weather, and things look far worse than they are. A year ago, when I was in the throes of augmentation, writhing on the couch or floor for hours on end, I told myself it’s not cancer and it’s not pain. That gave me a bit of a reality check, and in that space I could feel some calm and gratitude. But now, things just seem to be spinning away from me, and I’m getting tired of keeping my head above water...

It’d be nice to have my old self back even just for day: optimistic, patient, motivated, even-tempered, resilient, grateful. Someone who sleeps eight hours and feels rested and ready to get at the day. Everyone here I believe would relish that too.

I mourn the loss of that self. The journey that is chronic disease is partly one of mourning. It’s also one of enjoying what you still can do, taking pleasure in it, and being grateful for it. Writing that does make me feel better, that my equilibrium can and will return. I’ll be ok, everyone. Well, it’s time to see if Hypnos will grant me some sleep tonight...


You are heard, in a way other people likely cannot hear it. Sometimes I ask myself why I am still in this group after close to 15 years. Originally it was to find out how to help me, then it was to pay it forward because I didn't want ANYONE to go through what I did. Now? It is because no matter how fortunate I am to have family and friends that DO get it, no people get it the way the people here get it. Belonging, feeling heard, knowing others get it? As the commercial in the US goes, Priceless.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Bridgercan
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Bridgercan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:59 am

Rustsmith wrote:Bridgercan, I too am susceptible to both organic and medication driven depression. I am fortunate that my wife is very supportive and understanding of my RLS. She also has a chronic neurological condition, so she has an idea of what I am going through and my RLS has given me greater appreciation of what she has. Without her in my life, I am almost certain that I would not be here today.

I was fortunate that my doctor referred me to a behavioral health provider who has expertise in pharmacokinetics. She had done her research before I saw her the first time and was very familiar with all the do's and don't's when it comes to treating RLS. I am fortunate that my current opioid is Tramadol ER. Tramadol is a mild opioid that also has properties of an SNRI anti-depressant. This is something that most doctors (even my RLS specialist) are not familiar with. They mentally put it into one box when it really needs to be in two. If you ask about it, don't be surprised if you hear something like "well, it isn't used for that purpose". But, the downside of Tramadol is that it is the only non-DA that can cause augmentation. I have asked my RLS specialist to occasionally switch between Tramadol and methadone. Her response when I brought it up was that we will discuss it at our next appointment.


Good to know—my only experience with Tramadol was post-surgical some years ago and it seemed very mild in its effect on me. Thanks, Rustsmith, I’ll have to bring it up w/my doc next appointment.

Bridgercan
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Bridgercan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:34 am

You’re right, Viewsaskew, being heard is priceless. I think it’s often the best gift we can give each other—offering our full attention and really hearing what the other person is saying. And that takes effort to do, and sometimes alot of effort, at least for me, to set aside my stuff and just hear what the other person is saying, especially when what’s being said is emotionally charged. But I’ve learned that the benefit and connection are really worth the effort, and conflict gets resolved much faster. But like keeping fit, you have to keep at it.

Just an fyi, I’ve gotten better sleep the last few nights, so the vicious cycle in my head has gone into remission, and my equilibrium is returning. There’ve finally been some mild, sunny days where I live and that helps my head immensely. Not surprisingly, my spouse and I are in a better place as well.

BTW, thank you for the time and effort you put into the forum. I find your posts and stickies are helpful and enjoyable to read, so thanks for paying it forward.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 15646
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby ViewsAskew » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:11 am

Bridgercan wrote:You’re right, Viewsaskew, being heard is priceless. I think it’s often the best gift we can give each other—offering our full attention and really hearing what the other person is saying. And that takes effort to do, and sometimes alot of effort, at least for me, to set aside my stuff and just hear what the other person is saying, especially when what’s being said is emotionally charged. But I’ve learned that the benefit and connection are really worth the effort, and conflict gets resolved much faster. But like keeping fit, you have to keep at it.

Just an fyi, I’ve gotten better sleep the last few nights, so the vicious cycle in my head has gone into remission, and my equilibrium is returning. There’ve finally been some mild, sunny days where I live and that helps my head immensely. Not surprisingly, my spouse and I are in a better place as well.

BTW, thank you for the time and effort you put into the forum. I find your posts and stickies are helpful and enjoyable to read, so thanks for paying it forward.


I used to live in Chicago. I moved to the So Cal area specifically to be close to an RLS specialist, but I would be lying if I said that the sunshine isn't almost as wonderful as having the doctor!

I took a course in mediation about 20 years ago. I was a few years out of my grad program and a consultant who thought she was a great listener. By the end of the mediation course, I was quite sure how good I was. When I started mediating, boy-oh-boy, did I get a rude awakening! Those first few years were likely one of the best things I ever did for myself to help me understand how to deeply listen, value other perspectives and learn how to sit with conflict. As you mentioned, it requires effort and regular practice.

So glad you are doing better and that you and hubby are in a better place. And, you are welcome.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest



Managing Your RLS



Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Frunobulax
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Frunobulax » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:27 am

Sorry for a very late reply, but I was just revisiting some old threads...

I can recommend Golden root (Rhodiola rosea) as a natural antidepressant (see this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9805). It is a stimulant so you'll want to take it in the morning, and I had trouble going to sleep during the first few days, but I quickly grew accustomed to it and think that my sleep was actually better after taking it for a week or two.

Bridgercan
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Bridgercan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:17 am

Frunobulax wrote:Sorry for a very late reply, but I was just revisiting some old threads...

I can recommend Golden root (Rhodiola rosea) as a natural antidepressant (see this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9805). It is a stimulant so you'll want to take it in the morning, and I had trouble going to sleep during the first few days, but I quickly grew accustomed to it and think that my sleep was actually better after taking it for a week or two.


No worries! I’ve never heard of golden root, and I’ve been treated for depression and bipolar for decades. I’ve been through all of the formularies plus any and all herbal remedies. Anything that might help with sleep would really be welcomed: like many here, even when my symptoms are in check, I still have insomnia. I’ll check it out—thanks!

Frunobulax
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Suicidal thoughts

Postby Frunobulax » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:02 pm

Bridgercan wrote:
Frunobulax wrote:Sorry for a very late reply, but I was just revisiting some old threads...

I can recommend Golden root (Rhodiola rosea) as a natural antidepressant (see this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9805). It is a stimulant so you'll want to take it in the morning, and I had trouble going to sleep during the first few days, but I quickly grew accustomed to it and think that my sleep was actually better after taking it for a week or two.


No worries! I’ve never heard of golden root, and I’ve been treated for depression and bipolar for decades. I’ve been through all of the formularies plus any and all herbal remedies. Anything that might help with sleep would really be welcomed: like many here, even when my symptoms are in check, I still have insomnia. I’ll check it out—thanks!


AFAIK Golden root is werll known in Russia and some other european countries. It's rated as an antidepressant in some countries like Switzerland, here in Germany it's fairly unkown and considered just a supplement. I stumbled upon this because I heard it being recommended to smokers trying to quit, as ex-smokers often experience depressions along with the craving for nicotine.

I had severe insomnia for about 4 years even though RLS symptoms were more or less under control (I'm on Oxycodone), ever since stopping dopamine agonists. But I found a remedy and have been sleeping decently for the last half year, due to a tablespoon of GABA (pure powder, about 3g), 400mg 5-HTP, 2mg Melatonin (ret.) and 15g of a protein powder (Scitec Nutrition 100% Whey Protein) every evening. This works fairly well, maybe 5 days out of 7 in a week - it was more spotty at first but my sleep got better after taking this for about 1-2 months. No clue why I need the whey protein in there, but there must be something in it that I need. (I can give some justification for the rest: 5-HTP is a precursor of Serotonin and Melatonin, GABA apparently has a hard time getting through the brain-blood-barrier but due to the large dose there is some effect, and Melatonin is, well, Melatonin.)


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