can RLS be caused by a drug addiction?

RLS occurs more frequently in certain populations, including people with end-stage renal disease, women during pregnancy, and people with iron deficiency. Also, RLS/WED in the elderly and children brings other challenges. Sharing your experiences may be extraordinarily helpful to others.
searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Becat

Post by searching_gurl »

Hi becat, actually you did post a reply along the same lines, but your recent post adds to it so thank you.

I was browsing through a few threads here yesterday and noticed that some people have found ADD & ADHD medications like Adderall completely take away all their RLS symptoms. SWIM knows that when she uses methamphetamine, which is a similar drug, the same thing happens. The implications of this though have to be considered, cause while adderall may take away RLS symptoms, cessation of adderall may result with a person finding their RLS has gotten a lot worse, which is the case with methamphetamine. How long this takes to return to baseline though is unknown, and I guess there is a chance that this will never completely happen. Maybe if the adderall dose is low then all it is doing is correcting dopamine levels and not increasing them to levels that can't naturally be achieved. Any thoughts on this?

SquirmingSusan
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:08 am
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Post by SquirmingSusan »

I take bupropion off and on to help with my RLS, and it helps a little bit, mostly with the muscle jerking. Yes, it's a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, but it only raises dopamine levels a teeny bit, nothing like the effect of a dopamine agonist like Mirapex or Requip. It does help with energy and, in many people, with weight loss. I hope it helps SWIM.
Susan

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Thanks Susan

Post by searching_gurl »

Thanks for the reply, I'll keep that in mind if the bupropion does not have the desired effect for SWIM's RLS.

But you got me thinking about Dopamine Agonists (which I know very little about). If drugs like Mirapex and Requip raise dopamine levels would these drugs also work on SWIM's range of issues surrounding low dopamine levels? Do they improve mood? Energy levels? Concentration? Do they decrease appetite? Lessen drug & nicotine cravings?

I guess this might be the wrong thread or even forum to be asking these questions, but you are all such a knowledgeable bunch and your answers to my questions so far have seemed very genuine and also very open minded about SWIM's lifestyle and it's possible relationship to her RLS.

Thanks for all your input.

Neco
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:18 am
Location: Somewhere in the midwest
Contact:

Post by Neco »

I don't see any reason for it to not work, from what I can see..

As long as SWIM is steering clear of Methampetimines, and other CNS stimulants while on the Bupropion, this may turn out to be beneficial.

At the same time, having tried and had bad side effects, or RLS stimulation from nearly every med out there, I am a little skeptical.

With regards to meth cravings and the like, I would counsel SWIM to perhaps look into getting some methadone. In my opinion RLS management (and importantly, keeping the urge to do meth at bay) has more to do with dopamine than serotonin, where is what anti-depressants usually deal with.

Hard narcotics like painkillers, meth, etc Simply act like dopamine in your system. Which would explain why RLS patients can respond to both Dopamine Agonists and Narcotics positively.

On the flip side if SWIM feels beneficial effects from the Bupropion, but finds that for some reason the RLS is worse, or won't go away, methadone should surely be a consideration on the table, as most narcotics have a large potential to block out that kind of augmentation. (within reason).


Paradoxically, this all leads to my question of why some of us seem to have our RLS triggered by narcotics in the first place, and remain with it even after absences of 2 weeks or more with no drugs in our systems. Yet narcotics never fail to alleviate the RLS sensations in respectable and foolish doses alike.

Seems like a philosophical tossup between some strangely intense addiction or "real" RLS? Guess we won't know until someone dose a study.

In any case I am of the opinion that for dopamine related problems, drugs that deal with dopamine, whether they bind to receptors, increase production of, or whatever, are more useful than Serotonin based drugs. But it is important to note that with DA's, people do seem to report undesired effects, sluggishness, tiredness, etc.. Whereas with anti-depressants you do get stabalized mood and energy benefits.

becat
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:41 pm

Post by becat »

Hi S-Girl,

Your a good friend to do this much research to help your friend. Kudos and awesome that your that kind of friend.

Again, I remind you that I was working while listening to this program, until the medical part......I'm not near being a doctor either here, :?

One of the reasons this drugs seems to be so darn hard to get away from is that it resets the brain's normal functions in such a harsh way.

I honestly thought at the time, a dopamine drug could never work, because the human body can not replace what the Meth gives, in the dopamine area. That would be a huge dose, not sure the side effects would be doable.

However, our bodies can do some amazing things. Overcome some horrid stuff we do, or done to us. So I'd keep hope on my side.

I have really thought about this, as I have a distance family member that got mixed up for a while in that junk. We already have RLS by genetics, so I just felt so bad when this person called to talk to me about thier legs going nuts.

I'll PM you, but will say publically that your friend needs a real expert. Even if you had to write to one, asking for a clue of help. It would be worth the stamps!

Hugs Lynne

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Thanks

Post by searching_gurl »

Thanks for your replies, I am actually finding this research incredibly interesting, it is just unfortunate that there are so few studies on the correlation between addiction, low dopamine levels, RLS and dopamine drugs. Not only that but because it is so often misdiagnosed and unheard of to most people, the experiences aren't shared.

Even before SWIM got RLS she used to wonder why Dopamine drugs were not used as treatment for addictions to methamphetamine and cocaine. It seems like the obvious avenue to pursue, yet doctors insist on treating post drug abuse depression with SSRI's. I read up on symptoms of low serotonin and low dopamine and it is as clear as day that SWIM's serotonin levels are absolutely fine, but her dopamine levels are not.

Though it is still very unclear how many recovering addicts suffer from RLS, addiction treatment with the use of dopamine drugs could stabalize dopamine levels so that they don't continue to fall thus decreasing the chance of RLS starting in the first place.

Anyway, that is enough from me, I will update you all with reports of SWIM's experience with bupropion over the next few weeks.

Thanks again for the information, support and intelligent conversation.

SG

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by searching_gurl »

bupropion had no effect, my RLS went away seemingly by itself and just came back 3 days ago, 3 days of torture. I'm now using carbamazepine, clonazepam, propanolol and melatonin, and all RLS symptoms seem to have disappeared.

I would really like to know what made it come back though, could stress have done it? A good friend hung herself and i miscarried in one week could that have been the reason? Also I've been drinking heavily.

Another thing I wanted to share is a lady called the radio a few weeks ago claiming she had found a miracle cure, so a lady at my mums work went straight out and bought some and she also said her RLS has gone. I don't know how long it takes, but I put some on my cereal last night, I'm sure most people with this illness are willing to try anything. It is a NZ product, but maybe taking note of its ingredients could help. Here is the info from the pack:

It is called LSA, brand is Health2000 Label reads: (Linseed, sunflower, almonds) Liver and bowel cleanser. High in fibre, protein and essential fatty acids esp omega 3.

Hope this helps someone.

Aiken
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:53 am

Post by Aiken »

Alcohol is infamous for increasing the effects of RLS. For me, it's about triple. That's the first thing you should consider to be the cause. I'm going to touch on the other things you said, but the alcohol screams to me, at the top of its lungs, "It's my fault!"

Given your history, I'm guessing you may have difficulty eliminating the alcohol, but if you wish to avoid RLS, I don't think you have any choice. If avoiding RLS isn't enough reason, then note also that alcohol + benzos (clonazepam in your case) is a potentially-fatal combination.

Your miscarriage could have affected you if you had enough blood loss, as your iron would have dropped. However, to suddenly go into full torture mode seem less likely. Check your ferritin levels and supplement if necessary.

Your friend's suicide (so sorry) has, I'm sure, caused you significant stress. Stress can absolutely amplify RLS as well. Again, though, I'm not sure if it's enough to put you in torture mode.
Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by searching_gurl »

Thanks for your reply Aiken, interesting to learn that alcohol is bad for RLS. I wonder if I can still drink "on occasion" does that affect RLS? Is drinking casually even something I am capable of anyway..... I don't know. I haven't had a drink today and the meds I am on are helping with the withdrawal from that. I thought giving up the hard stuff and doing everything legal that life would become easier but that certainly isnt the case.

I realise the mix between alcohol and benzos is not good, I have blackouts most of the time when I drink, but I am an addict so I guess I'm not scared of much. RLS though, scares the daylight out of me. Before I suffered from it I had no knowledge of it, but it seriously is the worst torture I have ever been through, it is like heroin withdrawal that has no end date. If there were no meds for this illness, if nothing helped I would certainly kill myself. Thank God there are meds that work.

I've been reading up on Carbamazepine, I'm not sure if this med is very popular here, it seems to have a lot of side effects but it did give me instant relief (90%) I'm just wondering if it causes weight gain? Thanks for taking the time to share this information with me.

SG

Aiken
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:53 am

Post by Aiken »

SG--

Like you said, it may not be an option for you to drink casually, but if you can do it during a lull and have it out of your system before the RLS starts up... well, maybe. I doubt it, though.

I think many of us agree that an unmedicated life with RLS would be difficult to justify living. There are quite a few options now, though, and even more opening up, so I think you've got many methods to explore before you need to worry about those thoughts.

I'm glad the tegretol is working for you. It doesn't work for everyone, so you're lucky on that front. If you run into trouble with it, you could also check the SoCal support group's rx list for more ideas: http://www.rlshelp.org/rlsrx.htm

By the way, I don't know if it's the first time you've stopped drinking after doing so heavily for a while, but you might want to find someone experienced in the process to hang out with you while you do it. They can help you if you get really sick or go into convulsions. Don't do it alone--there's no reason to put yourself through that without support.

As an aside... I'm never sure why our culture doesn't label alcohol as "hard stuff." It's one of the most dangerous, insidious drugs on the market. It's possible to ingest an amazing amount of the stuff without actually dying, but with horrific long-term effects on the body, on one's life, and on the lives of those around them. If it were a brand new substance, without a gigantic corporate infrastructure and political lobby already established, it would be outlawed in no time, just like any other newcomer to the mood-altering scene. (Not that I'm in favor of outlawing drugs... I just don't like the disparity.)
Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by searching_gurl »

Thanks for the link, I'm hoping now that I have stopped drinking that will be enough to stop the RLS.... but who knows, I do know having a drink is not worth this misery. I have only been drinking since Dec and I have given up once in that time for about 6 weeks. But of course within a week I was drinking a litre of gin a day. I would like to get my life sorted and try to get pregnant, are there any safe medications that pregnant women can take? Also do antidepressants make RLS worse? I have just been prescribed with Venlafaxine / Effexor.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by ViewsAskew »

First, just wanted to say that it seems you made some pretty impressive changes...I have a bit of understanding regarding how hard those are. I hope one day at a time keeps working (or whatever is helping).

Effexor (any AD, really) can worsen RLS. But, not everyone is the same, so it might work great for you...or it might be hell, or somewhere in between. Only way to find out is to try it. You'l know pretty quickly. You have two options, take more RLS drugs to combat the increase or try another AD.

There's a pretty terrific book on addiction and how it changes brain chemistry - the end result is that some of us are just more likely to be addiction material than others. For those of us who are, we often can't use in a neighboring area, or it is experienced the same in our brains.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by searching_gurl »

Thank you VA, I think I will leave the antidepressants for the time being, I'm really not willing to risk it. Also I read the book the craving brain, it was very interesting but became a little too focussed on AA and 12 step type programs which don't work for me personally. But since I first posted here I have given up cigarettes, all illegal drugs, plus prescription sleeping pills and have been trying to diet and be more active but this whole healing process is very slow and RLS certainly doesn't help (especially medication wise.) But I will keep on. Thanks for the positive encouragement.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by ViewsAskew »

Wow, another person who read that! It WAS focused on AA etc. I found them helpful, but only after I found a way to create my OWN concept of god, not one in any standard way. In some ways, though, I think it did sort of replace the chemistry created by the drugs. I guess this group does the same thing for many people.

Quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've ever done...I may not ever win the weight battle, but I can live with that.

The healing process certainly is slow...but in some ways it's extremely fast. I mean, think of all you've accomplished in a few months....it took you years to get there.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

searching_gurl
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:11 pm

Post by searching_gurl »

I stopped my SSNRI and I've kept taking my other meds, particularly carbamazapine which seems to take away my symptoms most of the time but a few days ago I got this during the day and I usually only get it at night. My spasms are more in the torso area and are difficult to disguise with other body movements (as it is when it is primarily in the legs). So for the most part I am happy with how these meds are working, but when its not it is torture, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I think slowing down my drinking is making it worse (strangely enough) but I'm hoping it goes away altogether if I can stop drinking.

Post Reply