Helen518 wrote:Hi -
Has anyone been told that they are mentally not as sharp since they started methadone?
I've felt more mentally sharp on Methadone. I was actually able to do my taxes tonight. I guess Ill have to wait and see if I get audited lol.
Methadone Users
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woodsie357
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ViewsAskew
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I need to clarify what I said before...when I take the methadone - I am sharp. It's the next day when I'm NOT taking it or before I take it that I'm bumbling. My hypothesis is that my body is in withdrawals - in my past experiences, my body becomes dependent on just about anything and very quickly. Heck, I have nasty withdrawals from just having caffeine a couple of days in a row, let alone methadone every night!
If I could take it during the day and have it still work at night, I'd be set.
If I could take it during the day and have it still work at night, I'd be set.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
It's a shame about the mental side effects. I guess there are much worse things that could happen.
Yes, I am up to 15 mg/day and that seems to be working for almost 2 weeks now. I hope this lasts! Basically, I had a lot of ambivalence and indecision about switching off the methadone, so I called the neuro again . . . he said I should figure out what combination of the hydrocodone and methadone would work. I ended up just increasing the methadone, and then telling him what I did and that it was working. I made an extra effort to get more sleep and not to run myself ragged during the day and that seemed to take care of the driving problem. However, my son has not been sleeping well the last few days and I am back to having trouble again.
I'm taking 5 mg at 5am, 2.5 mg at 10 am, then 5mg at 5pm and 2.5 mg at 9 pm. It seems to work. I recently read a post by Susan that said one has less chance of a dependence problem if the doses are less frequent, so I'm wondering if I should try to take the 7.5 mg at 5 am and at 5pm, but then again, this is working, so maybe I shouldn't mess with it.
I went ahead and tried the theanine and it does seem to help the anxiety. However, I keep forgetting to take it until I get anxious. It does not bother my legs but I think it may cause nausea.
Yes, I am up to 15 mg/day and that seems to be working for almost 2 weeks now. I hope this lasts! Basically, I had a lot of ambivalence and indecision about switching off the methadone, so I called the neuro again . . . he said I should figure out what combination of the hydrocodone and methadone would work. I ended up just increasing the methadone, and then telling him what I did and that it was working. I made an extra effort to get more sleep and not to run myself ragged during the day and that seemed to take care of the driving problem. However, my son has not been sleeping well the last few days and I am back to having trouble again.
I'm taking 5 mg at 5am, 2.5 mg at 10 am, then 5mg at 5pm and 2.5 mg at 9 pm. It seems to work. I recently read a post by Susan that said one has less chance of a dependence problem if the doses are less frequent, so I'm wondering if I should try to take the 7.5 mg at 5 am and at 5pm, but then again, this is working, so maybe I shouldn't mess with it.
I went ahead and tried the theanine and it does seem to help the anxiety. However, I keep forgetting to take it until I get anxious. It does not bother my legs but I think it may cause nausea.
I suppose I take a different view than most people about dependence and addiction, and it's also to distinguish the two..
As far as dependence goes, we are stuck with RLS for life.. We're pretty much going to be taking meds for the rest of our lives, so why worry about dependence to a medication you are likely NOT going to quit? I know there may be cases where you have to get off it if something comes up, etc but overall in the big picture I have no plans to stop taking methadone and don't worry about dependence. It's a legitimate medical side effect anyhow.
As for addiction, yes always something to worry about, and the more you take something, the more you raise the risk of addiction, so I guess it's a fine line between one persons moral compass and anothers. Most RLS patients don't tend to escalate their doses, so as long as you are not seeing a pattern of continued escalation in short periods of time I wouldn't worry too much. Just remain vigilant and bring up any concerning behavior patterns with your doctor.
Glad to hear that the dosing schedule is working better for you. I guess two weeks is a record? I'd be hesitant to change anything at that point too, I say go with the flow, personally.
If you have concerns about taking too many doses you could always try switching out the small 2.5mg ones with 5mg of Hydrocodone too.
As far as dependence goes, we are stuck with RLS for life.. We're pretty much going to be taking meds for the rest of our lives, so why worry about dependence to a medication you are likely NOT going to quit? I know there may be cases where you have to get off it if something comes up, etc but overall in the big picture I have no plans to stop taking methadone and don't worry about dependence. It's a legitimate medical side effect anyhow.
As for addiction, yes always something to worry about, and the more you take something, the more you raise the risk of addiction, so I guess it's a fine line between one persons moral compass and anothers. Most RLS patients don't tend to escalate their doses, so as long as you are not seeing a pattern of continued escalation in short periods of time I wouldn't worry too much. Just remain vigilant and bring up any concerning behavior patterns with your doctor.
Glad to hear that the dosing schedule is working better for you. I guess two weeks is a record? I'd be hesitant to change anything at that point too, I say go with the flow, personally.
If you have concerns about taking too many doses you could always try switching out the small 2.5mg ones with 5mg of Hydrocodone too.
What Zach said. Don't worry about dependence. You're going to be dependent. That's okay. For us, it's like being dependent on water. It's just part of life.
As for addiction, which is not the same as dependence, you're actually more likely to develop an addiction with *infrequent* doses. Frequent doses keep you on a fairly consistent level and don't give you periodic highs the way once- or twice-daily dosing might. This is why I break my 10mg hydrocodone in half for evening doses. I don't get a buzz with 5mg, and it works, but if I took all 10mg at once, I would, and I'd probably like it a little too much.
(With methadone, that's not such a big deal anyway.)
As for addiction, which is not the same as dependence, you're actually more likely to develop an addiction with *infrequent* doses. Frequent doses keep you on a fairly consistent level and don't give you periodic highs the way once- or twice-daily dosing might. This is why I break my 10mg hydrocodone in half for evening doses. I don't get a buzz with 5mg, and it works, but if I took all 10mg at once, I would, and I'd probably like it a little too much.
(With methadone, that's not such a big deal anyway.)Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.
I guess there are conflicting opinions with sensible points on both sides.. I don't really subscribe to one or the other view though..
I'm more apt to say infrequent doses would cause less addiction, as it gives you a chance to readjust as opposed to dropping from a constantly given level suddenly... I guess it also depends on whether or not the medicine needs to be taken daily or once in a while as well, and if you either fail to overcome the psychological craving or come down without many issues.
I suppose there are too many variables to say for sure.. Ann seems to have been told by at least one doctor that frequent doses will lead to higher risk of addiction, but maybe that doctor is also confusing addiction with dependence as well?
I'm more apt to say infrequent doses would cause less addiction, as it gives you a chance to readjust as opposed to dropping from a constantly given level suddenly... I guess it also depends on whether or not the medicine needs to be taken daily or once in a while as well, and if you either fail to overcome the psychological craving or come down without many issues.
I suppose there are too many variables to say for sure.. Ann seems to have been told by at least one doctor that frequent doses will lead to higher risk of addiction, but maybe that doctor is also confusing addiction with dependence as well?
I definitely see your point. I took Effexor, an antidepressant for 8 years, and it took more than two months to get off it because of the withdrawal. I see it as the same thing really.
I never have had a buzz from methadone, so the only reason I take it is for my symptoms, as there is no pleasure associated with it. Whereas, with hydrocodone and codiene I did get a buzz.
I never have had a buzz from methadone, so the only reason I take it is for my symptoms, as there is no pleasure associated with it. Whereas, with hydrocodone and codiene I did get a buzz.
That's good to hear, if you ever needed to stop it the psychological need (outside of the RLS) for the drug probably won't factor in. But you will still go through physical withdrawal, which from what I hear can be a bit painful to outright excruciating. I've been through methadone withdrawal a couple times, but it wasn't full blown withdrawal, however I really was in enough pain that I decided to fudge the date on a script I had to get it filled earlier..
I wouldn't call the pain excruciating, as I was obviously capable of getting in the car and driving to the pharmacy, plus spending 30 minutes sitting absolutely still as I changed the date, and then traced over everything to give the ink a uniform color again =\ However I was not coming off even 15mgs it was probably a lot higher, and I imagine any kind of proper taper down to 1mg and then .5 or .25 (if possible to cut it that small) would be a lot easier.
btw.. don't ever do this, your doctor will take your head off.. heh
I wouldn't call the pain excruciating, as I was obviously capable of getting in the car and driving to the pharmacy, plus spending 30 minutes sitting absolutely still as I changed the date, and then traced over everything to give the ink a uniform color again =\ However I was not coming off even 15mgs it was probably a lot higher, and I imagine any kind of proper taper down to 1mg and then .5 or .25 (if possible to cut it that small) would be a lot easier.
btw.. don't ever do this, your doctor will take your head off.. heh
Sorry :p I'm probably not the best forger in the world anyway. It was my first real attempt, and my doc ended up with a photocopy anyway.
I'm not sure if its just standard practice that he gets copied when I fill, or if the pharmacy found the wording, or the inking suspicious.. All I know is he said "don't do that!" and hasn't brought it up since.. Though I think the photocopy is now part of my permanent medical record
I'm not sure if its just standard practice that he gets copied when I fill, or if the pharmacy found the wording, or the inking suspicious.. All I know is he said "don't do that!" and hasn't brought it up since.. Though I think the photocopy is now part of my permanent medical record
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SquirmingSusan
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Helen518 wrote:I recently read a post by Susan that said one has less chance of a dependence problem if the doses are less frequent, so I'm wondering if I should try to take the 7.5 mg at 5 am and at 5pm, but then again, this is working, so maybe I shouldn't mess with it.
I don't think that was me who said that. Maybe Ann? I'm definitely in the "I don't care if I'm dependent" camp on this one.
I've always split my doses through the day because I have pain, and only get about 4 hours of relief per dose. But if my RLS ever completely goes away, I'll find out if I get withdrawal or not.
I can't say that I notice any issues with mental fogginess from methadone. It's nothing compared to when I don't take it and experience the full force of painful RLS, which puts me in tears and I can't think about anything else...
Susan
Oops. Sorry for incorrectly attributing the quote, SUsan . . . must be the mental fog!
Re: withdrawal - if you withdraw from any meds very very slowly, it is not really so bad, right? I mean, I withdrew from the benzo very slowly and it was fine except for tingling in my feet and slight stomach upset. When I tried to quit cold turkey it was very bad of course. You were withdrawing cold turkey in your story, right Zach?
Re: withdrawal - if you withdraw from any meds very very slowly, it is not really so bad, right? I mean, I withdrew from the benzo very slowly and it was fine except for tingling in my feet and slight stomach upset. When I tried to quit cold turkey it was very bad of course. You were withdrawing cold turkey in your story, right Zach?
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ViewsAskew
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I've heard conflicting info, but one of the leading RLS docs says that in his patients, he's not had problems regarding dependence and methadone IF they take only one dose a day...
I only care about it because given my history, I'm likely to A) have to try other drugs in the future, and B) I tend to get whacked much worse than most people with dependence. If I have coffee two days in a row, by the third day I have withdrawal from caffeine. It's nuts.
I only care about it because given my history, I'm likely to A) have to try other drugs in the future, and B) I tend to get whacked much worse than most people with dependence. If I have coffee two days in a row, by the third day I have withdrawal from caffeine. It's nuts.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
All my withdrawals have been cold turkey. Hydrocodone and Codeine are by far the easiest, with some hot/cold changes and aching that can be helped by Ibuprofen.
Oxycodone is supposed to be pretty bad, but I've never had to go through it. Those are more of the flu-like symptoms, vomiting included. Not sure about how sick Methadone withdrawal makes you, as I've never had to go too long, but it is definitely very painful. I often found myself clasping my arms around my sides and just rocking back and forth, between the pain and the RLS - but I think the RLS made the pain worse, I just haven't traditionally had to deal with RLS related pain until I started having management issues.
Tapering down is always going to be much more gentle, and it will always be as gentle as you'll ever get, without a substitute drug, which kind of defeats the purpose if you end up addicted to the substitute..
Some addicts have claimed that even withdrawing from 1mg of Methadone was worse than kicking Heroin without any help.. But I suspect people getting off a substance they are taking for medical reasons, probably have it a bit easier than others, as they generall are not on insanely high, repeated doses of their medication.
Oxycodone is supposed to be pretty bad, but I've never had to go through it. Those are more of the flu-like symptoms, vomiting included. Not sure about how sick Methadone withdrawal makes you, as I've never had to go too long, but it is definitely very painful. I often found myself clasping my arms around my sides and just rocking back and forth, between the pain and the RLS - but I think the RLS made the pain worse, I just haven't traditionally had to deal with RLS related pain until I started having management issues.
Tapering down is always going to be much more gentle, and it will always be as gentle as you'll ever get, without a substitute drug, which kind of defeats the purpose if you end up addicted to the substitute..
Some addicts have claimed that even withdrawing from 1mg of Methadone was worse than kicking Heroin without any help.. But I suspect people getting off a substance they are taking for medical reasons, probably have it a bit easier than others, as they generall are not on insanely high, repeated doses of their medication.