Cannabis

Use this section to discuss your experiences with prescription drugs, iron injections, and other medical interventions that involve the introduction of a drug or medicine into the body. Discuss side effects, successes, failures, published research, information about drug trials, and information about new medications being developed.

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
badnights
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Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by badnights »

QyX - Thank you for opening my eyes to my weird bias. Having cannabis associated with liquor bothered me, but I didn't have a rational reason. I have verified that the only legal outlet in Northwest Territories is the liquor and cannabis commission. They have an online store, but it only has 3 choices! (It looks like 4, but two of them are the same thing in different amounts.) Apparently there are more choices in the physical store, but what does that mean, 10 choices? There is no way to filter by THC or CBD content, but that hardly matters with only 3 choices. They are all 13-17% THC and <0.1% CBD.

I suspect I won't find much different at the physical store, but I will check it out at some point (I'm leaving on a road trip tomorrow to pick up a new motorcycle. Nervous-making. It's a 14-hour drive that will take me 2 or 3 days because I fall asleep so easily).

I think I will also have to investigate illegal options; people MUST be ordering illegally here. QyX would you mind telling me one or two strains that have the right THC & CBD concentrations according to your suggestion? (or I could search the board for your previous posts too - maybe even in this very Topic ......) Thanks very much if you can.

And does anyone have any advice on vaping equipment? I am concerned about my lungs.

By the way. that old tincture failed me the third and fourth nights, so the first two nights of better sleep were just coincidence.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

QyX

Re: Cannabis

Post by QyX »

So I just looked around you can simply order online in Canada. They seem to ship to all addresses within Canada:

https://cannabismo.org/ or here: https://greensociety.io/ There are many more but not all of them ship nationwide but there are quite a few who do. So when you have chosen one shop, I could give you some recommendations depending on what they have to offer.

And if you can find a doctor who is supportive of medical marijuana and issues you a card, you can also order here:

https://cannmart.com/

What you can buy in your local shop doesn't sound too bad as long as you can get some CBD oil (5-10% CBD, 20 - 40 ml) from somewhere.

When my doctor first prescribed Cannabis, one of the strains she prescribed had 14% THC and < 1% CBD, which was fine. I was just a bit more careful, knowing that this product is little bit more potent than the strain with 8% THC.

Regarding vaping equipment: the device I use is a medical grade vaping machine produced by a german company but also highly popular in Northern America. The device is expensive though (360 EUR including taxes here in Germany) and you might want to look at cheaper options as long as you don't know if you are going to do this long-term. Anyway, the device I use is called "VAPORMEd Mighty MEDIC" produced by Storz & Bickel.

I like this device because it is mobile and can easily take it with me in case I should travel or visit friends over night. They also have a cheaper entry line device where you remote control the device with an app on your smartphone. I would recommend visiting their website and look around. If you want to vape long-term, this is certainly the kind of product you would want to have.

Regarding Cannabis strains in general: you have to understand that this is all a big trial & error thing. It is definitively the THC who has the most impact on RLS symptoms & insomnia. So there is nothing wrong per se to start with a strain that is THC dominant / high in THC. The CBD is then helpful with avoiding long-term tolerance issues, improving & maintaining sleep quality and reduce / limit potential psychotropic side effects of THC. But it doesn't matter that much if you consume the CBD in form of an oil or vape it directly.

Just one thing is really important: when your tolerance for THC is really low and you don't yet know how you will respond it: start at a very low dose. A single dose for me is roughly 0,1 - 0,15 g of crushed flowers with 19 - 25% THC, depending on the strain I use. The weakest strain I currently use has 18,6 and the highest 21,8%

So when you have a strain with roughly 15%, I would say don't vape more than 0,05 g in a single dose per hour until you know how you respond to THC.

You will also learn that while certain strains produce the desired medical benefits, you might not like their psychotropic profile. There are also a number of cannabis strain review websites. So when you know what products are available, you can search for reviews of these strains and see what other people think about them.

There are most likely strains that work better for RLS than others. Especially potent indica strains who are known to produce a strong body high might be especially useful for RLS and RLS associated pain relief. I can often feel how my legs instantly start to relax when I use such a product. But even mild sativa strains can already significantly improve severe RLS symptoms and promote sleep. So initially, it might not really matter what you choose as long as there is enough THC present.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Cannabis

Post by ViewsAskew »

Too bad everything is under quarantine. You could ride your new bike down and stay with me for awhile and we could try every possible strain at the 15 local cannabis stores, lol. Hubby is rarin' to get high, lol - for the first time. I cannot wait to see that!
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Cannabis

Post by ViewsAskew »

Oh - I use this to find locations. Could be something that helps you.

https://potguide.com
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

Icantsleep
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:07 am
Location: Ottawa Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by Icantsleep »

I agree with all of what Qyx said
The Mighty is IMO the best vaporizer (it is the only unit that actually has it's own drug information number)
The Crafty is the smaller and sleeker version , but wont work while charging and it has a wire inside that cant stand long term heat (design flaw)
Vaporizers.ca will give you a small discount for medical use (call and ask for Stephanie)
They will go above and beyond if there ever happens to be a warranty issue.
If you are on any type of disability, you could likely acquire the unit for free (the process could take a while though )

Beth you are a slam dunk candidate for a MM card .
It would likely be worth it to go through that process, as your options from licensed producers here in Canada would skyrocket.
Cannafarms has good oil and a ridiculous amount of variety of flower
Spectrum (Tweed) has IMO the best indica and best flower for RLS in their Red #1 strain
It is a proprietary strain, so genetics are unknown.
I've already mentioned this strain to QyX ... unsure if it has become available to him yet

Start with something lower (even one or two of the strains available to you in your provincial store)
Pretty much anything will work initially
RED #1 will knock you on your ****, so work your way up to it
It is definitely a bedtime strain
If you need daytime coverage , numerous sativas should help provide that
The jury is out for CBD and its effects on RLS
It can definitely calm everything and make you a bit sleepy but may not do much for actual rls symptoms.
I'd say Cannafarms has the "best " CBD oil ... you definitely want cannabis CBD as opposed to hemp CBD

Red #1 THC oil is very effective for a longer lasting effect
Again ... you gotta go really slow with this stuff , but dont be afraid of it
If you ever feel too baked, dont panic and eat something or brush your teeth and shower (it will pass eventually)

If you have other questions just ask

QyX

Re: Cannabis

Post by QyX »

So I continue to experience some absolutely bizarre and wild stuff on iron tablets. It now reached a point where I am actually concerned what a potential i.V. infusion would do to me. Here is what happened:

Last time I went to the pharmacy I picked up two different kind of iron tablets. The normal, more "long-acting" version and some fast-immediate release version. The long-acting version is a 100 mg strength and the faster release tablets are 40 mg. I've been taking one of those 100 mg pills for the past months.

Now with those fast acting pills, I tried 3 pills one night and the effects were massive. It looks like that iron really can shut my brain down. I was getting so sleep and tired and maybe slept for 14 hours, was awake for 3-4 hours only to sleep another 10 hours. It was a totally crazy experience and it kind of felt the same like I would have taken a higher dose of antipsychotics. I felt a bit disconnected from everything, nothing could really trigger / interest me. I was just super sleepy and relaxed.

This is not normal. There is no way that iron tablets should have such massive psychotropic effects. This is absolutely crazy and the magnitude of the effects demands that this needs further investigation.

@Icantsleep: Red #1 still is not available in Germany but lately a few other strains like Amnesia Haze, White Widow, Darkstar & Jean Guy have become available. Currently trying the Darkstar (pure indica) and Jean Guy (90% sativa) and both seem very interesting. There always have been a number of potent indica strains available here (L.A. Confidential, L.A. Affie, Bakerstreet) so it is not too bad that Red #1 is not available even though I am really curious.

Currently I use: Red #2 (Crimea Blue), Bedrocan (Jack Herer), Pedanios 18/1 (L.A. Affie), Pedanios 22/1 (Ghost Train Haze), Darkstar and Jean Guy.

Darkstar might become my new indica favourite. I also made really good experiences with Crimea Blue and L.A. Affie but right now it feels like I've gotten to used to certain strains. So I am not using as much Pedanios 22/1 and Bedrocan as I used during the winter. Seems like lately I am starting to enjoy mild sativa strains more than more aggressive ones. Bedrocan is still quite nice though. It is such a well rounded hybrid with strong sativa and indica properties.

Anyway, Cannabis & RLS continues to be a fascinating topic. So much still to learn.

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by badnights »

Thank you QyX, Ann, and Icantsleep for all the information. I just got back from my trip, I am now in "self-isolation" for 14 days but I have a new motorcycle to play with at least. (The isolation part means no stores, and wear a mask if I'm near people, and no one is allowed in my house.) (Ann- what a blast I would love to make a trip down there on the bike!)

I have some CBD oil (though I don't know if it's cannabis or hemp), so maybe I will order some of that THC-heavy cannabis from the legal store first and see how that goes. I definitely want to avoid the high feeling, or if I can't, go to sleep instead of be awake feeling like that. First first, though, I will check into vape units. Thanks for all the advice.
QyX wrote:Now with those fast acting pills, I tried 3 pills one night and the effects were massive. It looks like that iron really can shut my brain down. I was getting so sleep and tired and maybe slept for 14 hours, was awake for 3-4 hours only to sleep another 10 hours. It was a totally crazy experience and it kind of felt the same like I would have taken a higher dose of antipsychotics. I felt a bit disconnected from everything, nothing could really trigger / interest me. I was just super sleepy and relaxed.

This is not normal. There is no way that iron tablets should have such massive psychotropic effects. This is absolutely crazy and the magnitude of the effects demands that this needs further investigation.
That is bizarre. Beyond bizarre. You're in a class by yourself with some of this stuff!
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16571
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Cannabis

Post by ViewsAskew »

I find that with the gummies that I can cut them in quarters and avoid the high, but sleep better. I sleep best with a half of one, but even a quarter helps keep me asleep. I don't feel high at all, just sleepy and tired. A full one makes me a bit high - these are 50/50 CBD and THC. BUT - gummies definitely have to be taken ahead of time...which means you cannot just take a puff on bad nights (pun intended).
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by badnights »

which means you cannot just take a puff on bad nights (pun intended).
:lol: :lol:
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

Polar Bear
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Posts: 8799
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Cannabis

Post by Polar Bear »

:lol: :lol:
Betty
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by badnights »

I ordered 4 different varieties of cannabis today, plus some THC gummies and CBD gummies. I used an outlet which it is illegal for me to use, according to NWT law, but I don't think anyone will get too upset.

I re-decided not to vape, I have asthma and it's just too risky to mess with my lungs. So I have to use edibles, but the pre-made ones are all straight sugar plus unknown processing of unknown plant varieties. So I will make infused coconut oil and use it to make treats.

All the varieties I ordered have almost no CBD. I know I found a variety online with high CBD, but I was lookikng at so many sites over so many days, always tired and jumping up when the RLS/WED started, hard to concentrate, so somehow I ended up only with very low CBD varieties.

How important is the CBD? It's supposed to be good for sleep, anxiety, and other things, but it fractured the heck out of my sleep when I used it alone. So did Sativex, which is a sublingual spray that contains THC and CBD. It seems like the variety of plant matters, based on what's said here by people who use cannabis regularly, so I need to steer clear of products like Sativex and the commercial gummies, where I have no control over or knowledge of the plant variety used or even the manufacturing process.

If the CBD is important, I have a small jar of CBD oil that I can take at the same time.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

QyX

Re: Cannabis

Post by QyX »

I roughly use 15 - 20 mg CBD per day. Sometimes I just take it during the day, on other days I split the dose and take some in the afternoon and some at night. The reasons why I use CBD are: it it helps avoiding building up a tolerance against THC, it can improve sleep quality by increasing REM sleep (THC can suppress REM sleep a bit and a little bit of CBD does counteract that successfully), small amounts of CBD seem to boost sedative / hypnotic properties of THC and it additionally stabilizes the overall effects of Cannabis.

Also I don't think you need to buy a special variety which is high in CBD. I would just get some CBD oil and be done with it.

CBD also can have stimulating properties for some people. Everybody is a little bit different there so you probably have to experiment a bit like starting with basically zero CBD and then slowly increase the dose to see what it does to you. It also might not matter that much initially since THC effects will be so dominant.

I needed a lot of trial & error plus experimentation to understand how I react to cannabinoids. I think all will be okay as long as you take it easy, especially initially and don't accidentally overdose. When I started using, 5 mg THC (two shots of Sativex) already was enough to make me high for almost a complete day. This experience also made me sceptical, if using oral cannabis products is good idea for people without any THC tolerance, since it is so easy to overdose because the speed and the amount of THC that is absorbed significantly depends if and what you have eaten before you used the medication. That is the reason I recommended vaping.

So I don't know much about vaping and asthma but when looking into this, I think it is a big difference if someones use those industry vaping cartridges who don't use the full flowers and have all kinds of chemicals added to them or if someone is using the full flowers in a medical vaporiser. I know one person who has asthma and does vape cannabis. He even produced some videos about this issue but sadly they are all in German. I would certainly research this topic a bit more.

For my personal situation, I think it would be optimal for me to vape 50% of the THC and use the other 50% in form of an oil so that I have a fast onset of action and then have continued coverage during the night. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and have to vape again to be able to fall asleep again. This maybe can be avoided by using some oil. For the future, I plan to select one variety and make an oil out of it.

Can you share what varieties you ordered? Got to admit: I am curious.

QyX

Re: Cannabis

Post by QyX »

Okay, I have news. I figured it out and sadly, it is bad. But there also is hope. I am also pretty sure that the information I uncovered will also help a lot of other RLS patients, especially those with ADHD / ADD as a comorbidity.
Incorporating minor updates (ICSD-3, 2014),[33] the diagnostic criteria for delayed sleep phase disorder are:

An intractable delay in the phase of the major sleep period occurs in relation to the desired clock time, as evidenced by a chronic or recurrent (for at least three months)

complaint of inability to fall asleep at a desired conventional clock time together with the inability to awaken at a desired and socially acceptable time.

When not required to maintain a strict schedule, patients exhibit improved sleep quality and duration for their age and maintain a delayed phase of entrainment to local time.

Patients have little or no reported difficulty in maintaining sleep once sleep has begun.

Patients have a relatively severe to absolute inability to advance the sleep phase to earlier hours by enforcing conventional sleep and wake times.

Sleep–wake logs and/or actigraphy monitoring for at least two weeks document a consistent habitual pattern of sleep onsets, usually later than 2 am, and lengthy sleeps.

Occasional noncircadian days may occur (i.e., sleep is "skipped" for an entire day and night plus some portion of the following day), followed by a sleep period lasting 12 to 18 hours.

The symptoms do not meet the criteria for any other sleep disorder causing inability to initiate sleep or excessive sleepiness.
Pharmaceutical treatments for this disorder: Melatonin (well, here we have a problem ...) & VitaminB12

Additionally, I have the worst possible version of the above described disorder. I don't have a 24-hour rhythm but more like 34 hour rhythm.

The big question for me is: is it possible to make Melatonin long-term compatible with my RLS?

Also this information makes it pretty easy to formulate a prognosis for my future. If I can't get this treated properly, it will cause some kind of permanent disability. Especially that it is all connected to the RLS makes it really a problem.

A big help would be if I could take Benzodiazepines. But they don't work because I take Oxcarbazepine. And I can't stop the Oxcarbazepine because of RLS pain symptoms. I've already tried multiple times and will certainly try again. If I sometimes could take Benzodiazepines for just one week, it would reset the Melatonin situation quite a bit and I maybe could develop some long-term rotational system.

I can already tell that Vitamine B12 has a positive impact but I have no idea how it needs to be dosed and at what times it should be taken. Same with the Melatonin. Maybe there are experimental treatment options I don't know about right now so I will have to see some real specialist and see what is even possible in my messed up situation.

At least I am finally happy that I was able to determine what is going on with me. Also the diseases described above, it is genetic and way more common in patients who also have ADD / ADHD ... and ADD / ADHD also makes it way more likely to have RLS.

So when we see some really bad RLS cases with dominant insomnia, this is one of the reasons.

In my case, I additionally have the Aspeger-Syndrome diagnosis, making the situation even more complex and disastrous.

Now it makes perfectly sense why my body seems to require all kinds of medication and drugs.

Oh and btw, this syndrome runs in families. It is genetic, my father also had a version of it. I am starting to think this was maybe the real reason he committed suicide. Never received treatment for it and most likely never knew what was wrong with him and blamed himself for his failures.

Suddenly everything makes sense.

badnights
Moderator
Posts: 6259
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:20 pm
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by badnights »

Nice that things are clicking into place. When did you first notice you had sleep-phase shift problems? Like, was it something you noticed as a kid? I always preferred staying up late to going to bed early, but I never had a real problem with the shift until I started taking opioid, so I know it's not a primary problem for me.

So if you have this phase-shift disorder and RLS/WED and ADD and Asperger, well yes: that's a handful. How lucky you are that we have as much knowledge as we do, and the internet to make it accessible; and how different your father might have fared if his world had been like that.

Something you could look into is B12 shots (injections).

If you take benzos for one week, would you have to stop the Oxcarbazepine for that week? would that cause problems?

Remember not to fall into the trap of thinking you know your future.
Beth - Wishing you a restful sleep tonight
Click for info on WED/RLS AUGMENTATION & IRON
I am a volunteer moderator. My posts are not medical advice. My posts do not reflect RLS Foundation opinion.

Icantsleep
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:07 am
Location: Ottawa Canada

Re: Cannabis

Post by Icantsleep »

Beth a medical vaporizer would be the most effective and definitely the quickest way to ingest your cannabis .

With regard to safety however , I cannot speak to the effect it would have on your asthma.

I do know that oils can be so unreliable .
One day you get the full effect in 30 minutes and it lasts 8 hours
Another day it may take 2 hours
Another day you may not even feel anything at all (and then you take more the next day and wind up flat on you **** for 10 hours )

For me CBD is something to be taken with THC and not on it's own.
The effects can be minimal but still useful.
I believe doses in excess of 30mg are necessary, and this can also be somewhat expensive

Everyone is different as we all know .

An aside .... I totally understand how frustrating and how bizarre to everyone else a severe Circadian rhythm disorder can be .
(Try explaining a CRD or RLS for that matter to a soon to be 4 year old )

We CRDers need to stick together lol

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