Cannabis

Use this section to discuss your experiences with prescription drugs, iron injections, and other medical interventions that involve the introduction of a drug or medicine into the body. Discuss side effects, successes, failures, published research, information about drug trials, and information about new medications being developed.

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
LCH
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:08 pm

Re: Cannabis

Postby LCH » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:28 am

Wow. I live in a place where cannabis is not legal. I am stopping my 0.5 mg of pramipexole as augmentation is starting (I have been through this before, having been referred back to my PCP by the neurologist when he was out of drugs to try.) I do have some edible cannabis that I will be re-trying; my previous attempt was a too-stoned feeling. I really appreciate this forum and all the people who have posted their experiences. I will soon be making an upcoming visit to a "legal state", and the personal experiences and information about the THC-CBD balance along with the related terminology ("Our recommendation is to avoid the use of ‘indica’ and ‘sativa’ as it’s likely to create confusion in the marketplace. So far, there is no evidence to support this dichotomy as a useful tool for describing ancestry or chemical composition. We advise producers to describe the content of their product empirically with regards to cannabinoid and terpenoid content.") will be very useful.

Rustsmith
Moderator
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Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Cannabis

Postby Rustsmith » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:00 am

LCH, one of the issues with edibles is that too many people eat one, think that it isn't working, so they try more. Then when the combination hits, wham, they are too stoned. The trick is to go slow and realize that it takes an hour or two for edibles to kick in. The "normal" recommendation at the shops around here is 10mg of THC. I only use 5mg because I want it to keep me asleep. That level is worn off by the time I wake up, so the only time I feel stoned is the middle of the night bathroom breaks. On those, I have to be very careful not to stumble or fall (again).
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:18 pm

Yes, Steve is right. Very important to start slow and go slow and especially with edibles, it can take up to 4 hours for the full effect to manifest itself. When I started with Cannabis, 2,5 mg of THC consumed orally was already enough to make me super stoned for more than 12 hours.

If you are an inexperienced user, I would recommend vaping Cannabis and use strain that contains between 6 and max 12% THC until you have more experience.

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:09 pm

Okay, finally new interesting facts, so time for an update. My health situation finally has improved in a significant way. Last week I was able to sleep 5 nights out of 7. I haven't been able to do this in over a year.

It turns out that a combination of different strains works best for me. Also the longer I use Cannabis, the more obvious it is to me that each strain affects me in a different ways, even when the THC and CBD concentrations are almost identical.

For example Bedrocan helps me to put my mind to rest while Pedanios 20/1 makes my body and my eyes tired. However without a low dose of CBD which I get from the Sativex spray I would not be able to fall asleep. The way I experience it, it seems that CBD acts like a little catalysator who boosts the hypnotic properties of Cannabis.

Since two days ago I also started using the brand "Bakerstreet", a indica strain that was recommended to me by some German RLS patient. All the Pedanios brands and Bakerstreet are imported from Canada while Bedrocan is imported from the Netherlands.

I did not have much luck with only using one strain.

When I wake up at night and can't go back to sleep, I use Bedrocans. Other brands did not work for me in this scenario.

I think this emphasises how different the response to a strain can be and that just because one brand / strain doesn't work for you does not mean others will either. All the brands I use are high potent strains, containing 20 to 24% THC and less than 0,1% CBD.

The CBD I take comes from the Sativex spray (approx 7,5 mg) and CBD oil I take from time to time.

Overall I am very grateful to have access to Cannabis because without it, pain management alone would be a huge issue.

When it comes to sleep, I don't feel like I'm using Cannabis to its full potential, yet. There is still a lot of trial & error going on. I still don't fully understand the impact of CBD when it comes to sleep and there are still many different strains available I haven't tried yet.

Still, when you have serious RLS and Cannabis is available in your country or state, I would give it a try.

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:33 pm

Okay, so it doesn't seem like "Bakerstreet" is working out for me and yesterday I went back to my usual combination.

While Bakerstreet seems to make me tired and sleepy, it seems to take a long time until I finally sleep and the next day I still felt a negative impact on my mood & energy. It even seemed to make me sad.

So I am not sure what this was. Maybe this was just a random event and had nothing to do with the new strain. But when I went back to my usual combination, I already feel much better today. At the moment I don't know exactly what this means however I will give Bakerstreet another shot.

Because I had more trouble falling asleep than normal, I was also smoking more than normal which might have played a role in this.

But I guess this shows what other people have said earlier: that some strains work great while others don't work at all, even when they contain very similar amounts of THC & CBD.

My goal is to try every Cannabis strain available in Germany. At least I can be happy that I found one combination that seems to work pretty okay.

legsbestill
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:22 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Re: Cannabis

Postby legsbestill » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:02 pm

I watched a very interesting youtube video by one of the top researchers in Israel concerning cannabis treatment of autistic children who exhibited violent behaviour. From memory, they ran out of the strain that was having a pronounced positive effect on the behaviour of the children. They replaced it with a genetically similar strain but the behaviour of the children went down hill almost immediately. To me this suggested that cannabis is VERY strain specific. It is fascinating to read of your experiences, QyX, and I applaud your aspiration to try every strain available in Germany.

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:44 pm

So I maybe ... maybe (!) made a huge personal discovery. In the past 3 days I started to sleep extremely well and especially yesterday I slept better than I've slept in the past 3-4 years, maybe even longer. The experience was absolutely incredible and I could instantly tell that some major changes were going on.

What did I change? Well, the last 3-4 months were a huge up & down. Sure, Cannabis improved my situation quite a bit what the improvements were much more on the pain side rather than my way more complex and problematic insomnia. And it was pretty frustrating to see Cannabis sometimes working and then not working well for weeks.

So it turns out, at least for me personally, CBD is just as important as THC. For quite a while I now thought that I do not benefit from higher CBD doses and that it might even worsen RLS symptoms when taken too much. Based on that I started taking less and less CBD without really noticing a big difference. It seemed like my sleep quality and sleep amount had more to do with random factors outside of my influence.

But because things weren't working and Bakerstreet turned out to be a disappointed (it unfortunately can trigger RLS symptoms) I had to try something else. When going through the medical Marijuana posts in the other section of this forum, I noticed that most people were using products that also contained significant amounts of CBDo . So I decided to start taking CBD in much higher doses than before. And instead of just taking it in the morning I also decided to start taking it in the evening.

The result was a dramatic and sudden improvement of my sleep quality. Instead of only being able to sleep after I was already awake for at least 20 to 24 hours, I suddenly could sleep after being awake for a normal time. It felt like my hole sleep architecture was improved, with dream phases (REM sleep) coming back, something I haven't experienced in a very long time.

I have no idea if those effects will be consistent in the future and what would be the correct CBD dose in my situation but this is for sure a huge discovery. Adding the CBD felt like I was taking major potent sleep medication. I was really surprised by how potent and long lasting the effect was.

This might be the game changer I was looking for. I was not able to continue medical school for the past 2 years and I could not envision a future where continuing my education would have been a realistic option. However, when the effect I have at the moment stays consistent, I will eventually get my life back.

I seriously underestimated the importance and significance of CBD. Maybe we all do and maybe we focus too much on the THC. But I also have to say that without the THC, CBD would do nothing for me since I already tried higher doses, just without additional THC.

Polar Bear
Moderator
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Location: N. Ireland

Re: Cannabis

Postby Polar Bear » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:52 pm

You so deserve this.
Betty
http://www.willis-ekbom.org/about-rls-wed/publications
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:15 am

Polar Bear wrote:You so deserve this.


Thanks!

Well, I got another night of great sleep, so it really seems that concept is working.

However there are still many details that need to be determined. For example

a) how much CBD should I take?

b) should I split the dose or should I take everything in the evening or at night?

c) How much CBD should I take via an oral form and how much CBD should come from vaping for faster onset of action?

d) Would I benefit more from using strains who have THC and CBD in an equal amount?

etc. etc.

So far I don't have much more than a proof of concept. But this is progress, big time progress. This justifies the usage of Cannabis based medicine in my situation big time. Given the circumstances and that I have not responded to any alternative treatments, this is almost a miracle.

stjohnh
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Cannabis

Postby stjohnh » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:28 pm

QyX wrote:...This justifies the usage of Cannabis based medicine in my situation big time. Given the circumstances and that I have not responded to any alternative treatments, this is almost a miracle.


A lot of us have found this to be true, few to none of standard sleeping pills seem to work for us with RLS. THC does.

The only thing that has helped me sleep besides THC is IV Iron Infusions, and even after that, I sometimes can't sleep well w/o THC.
Blessings,
Holland

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:54 pm

stjohnh wrote:
QyX wrote:...This justifies the usage of Cannabis based medicine in my situation big time. Given the circumstances and that I have not responded to any alternative treatments, this is almost a miracle.


A lot of us have found this to be true, few to none of standard sleeping pills seem to work for us with RLS. THC does.

The only thing that has helped me sleep besides THC is IV Iron Infusions, and even after that, I sometimes can't sleep well w/o THC.


It is not just the THC. It is the hole plant and CBD seems in my situation just as important as THC. I've been using high potent THC strains for the past months (THC around 22%, CBD <0,5%) and with those I sometimes slept and sometimes didn't. It was often pretty random and I did not fully understand why it was sometimes working and why not.

But things changed for me when I started to increase the CBD dosage. My THC to CBD ratio atm is maybe around 4:1 (4 parts of THC for one part of CBD). Today, I slept crazy 26 (!!!) hours (minus a couple hours when I was awake in the morning). This is absolutely ridiculous.

I doubt I will be okay in just a few weeks or months but this is kickstarting recovery big time. The effects are so dramatic, I can't believe it.

stjohnh
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Cannabis

Postby stjohnh » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:23 pm

QyX wrote:...
It is not just the THC. It is the hole plant and CBD seems in my situation just as important as THC. I've been using high potent THC strains for the past months (THC around 22%, CBD <0,5%) and with those I sometimes slept and sometimes didn't. It was often pretty random and I did not fully understand why it was sometimes working and why not. ...


I have never used pure THC. All the trials I have done have been with consumer grade cannabis and cannabis extracts. All have at least a little CBD in them, along with a myriad of other low concentration drugs present in the whole plant that may or may not have an effect.
Blessings,
Holland

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Okay, so I have another update. My health situation is improving and improving.

Some things are quite clear to me know

a) the observations I made about CBD are no fluke. My sleeping pattern is getting more normal every week.

b) my daily CBD dosage is approx. 30 mg/day. When I wake up I take about 10 mg and the rest around 8 pm.

c) there is one Cannabis strain who is especially beneficial for me. It does not only have potent analgesic properties but is also the only product I know that can make me sleep. Here in Germany the strain is called "Pedanios 20/1" ... however the exact same strain is also available in the U.S. and Canada under the "LA Confidental".

If you want more information about this specific strain, I would recommend checking out this website where you can find over 1.000 reviews about this particular strain alone: https://www.leafly.com/indica/la-confidential

There is also this other website https://www.wikileaf.com/strain/la-confidential/ which rates it 10 out 10 for insomnia and 10 out of 10 for making you sleepy. Knowing how extreme and bad my insomnia, I never would have expected that it can be treated with Cannabis, considering that even Benzodiazepines don't work for me.

I would say "LA Confidental" is the right product for you when your primary RLS symptoms are related to pain and insomnia while you are already getting opioids but don't get enough relief from the alone or have ran into opioid tolerance issues.

Another aspect to consider is that "LA Confidental" is a high potent indica strain. The average amount of THC in the product I can get here is around
~ 23% THC, lowest I saw was 21,9 and highest 23,8%. CBD is lower than 0,1% ... so that is why I supplement with CBD-oil.

So ye, in total I tried over 10 different Cannabis strains now, including high potent Sativa strains with similar amounts of THC. And what I learned from this is that while THC is an important variable to judge the effects of a specific strain it doesn't mean too much. There is a trend, more THC equals better pain relief but I am sure that even a variety of LA Confidental with only 15% THC would still have better analgesic properties than a Sativa strain with 24% THC.

The other strains I tried all have some interesting effects. They great to relax in the evening and limit the amount I have to take from more potent strains. If I would use LA Confidental in the early evening, I would not be able to function. I would just numb away. So currently I use two Sativa strains (Bedrocan and Red No. 2 where especially the Red No. 2 seems to have antidepressant and mood uplifting properties)

The more I learn about Cannabis, the more I am convinced it will become standard treatment for severe RLS, especially in combination with opioids.

If you have "untreatable" insomnia like I had, Cannabis might be worth a try.

I don't always like and enjoy the heavy sedation LA Confidental can produce but when you are suddenly able to sleep 8 to 10 hours without interruption, it is not that big of deal.

Oh, and on average I seem to tolerate Sativa strains a bit better than Indica, but when Indica varieties seem to work, their medicinal benefits seem to be a bit bigger than Indica.

legsbestill
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:22 pm
Location: Dublin Ireland

Re: Cannabis

Postby legsbestill » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:47 pm

It is like a miracle. I am delighted for you and also grateful for all the information you are posting. I am another who has found cannabis helpful for rls related insomnia and opioid induced alerting (though not so much for urge to move). I use whole plant so presume I get both THC and CBD. I am convinced the efficacy of cannabis is very strain related so it’s great to get the information about la confidential. Cannabis is not sold by strain in Ireland so I grow my own. unfortunately this means there is a significant time lag between identifying a potentially helpful strain and actually trying it ...

QyX
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:53 pm
Location: Berlin / Germany

Re: Cannabis

Postby QyX » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:15 am

When it comes to the "urge to move" nothing beats opioids. They are 100% effective for me in that scenario.

So when you say you use "whole plant" Cannabis, what do you mean exactly? THC / CBD is found almost exclusively in the buds of the plant. Just because you are using the whole plants doesn't mean you will get significant amounts of CBD, it rather mostly depends on what kind of strain you are using.

I wish we would have a Cannabis database to check which strains are particular effective for specific disorders and medical problems. But even when I know what to try, availability is so limited. Here in Germany only 20 - 30 different strains are available, compared to several hundred in states like California or Colorado. But I guess it is much better than nothing.


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