FDA Panel Votes to Ban Vicodin, Percocet
Patients may be asking about news articles regarding an FDA advisory panel's recommendation to ban the painkillers Percocet and Vicodin, citing the danger posed to the liver by products combining narcotics with acetaminophen.
The FDA does not have to heed the advice of its expert panels, but it frequently does, according to the New York Times. If the FDA follows the panel's recommendation, seven other prescription drugs combining acetaminophen and narcotics could also be banned.
In addition, the panel voted to reduce the maximum daily dose of acetaminophen to less than 4000 mg and the maximum dose in over-the-counter formulations to 325 mg (down from 500 mg).
Percocet/Vicodin Banned by FDA
What is with all these clearly political decisions behind this panel lately.....
This is becoming unreal, even acting on one of those recommendations would put millions of people back into pain or just force them up the ladder creating a bigger problem.
I just think its funny.. Tylenol runs commercials all day long but they are essentially calling the product unsafe in this instance.
This is becoming unreal, even acting on one of those recommendations would put millions of people back into pain or just force them up the ladder creating a bigger problem.
I just think its funny.. Tylenol runs commercials all day long but they are essentially calling the product unsafe in this instance.
What's ironic is that the acetaminophen is mainly there because the FDA requires a second component to discourage recreation use (for all the good that does).
Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.
I take Norco 10/325 3x a day and a Marinol 5mg at bedtime....so, not sure what is going to happen if they ban Norco...seems silly cause the FDA were the ones that put acetaminophen in there to begin with and I guess we are all just too stupid to read directions and monitor our daily acetaminophen intake.
So, rather than legalize marijuana, which would probably take care of my RLS 100%, I will have to move on to a stronger opioid. I tried methadone in the past and it caused me alot of bad side effects. I'm not sure what is going to happen now. I'm already struggling to sleep through the night as I'm always waking up from my RLS by early morning...most likely cause the Norco is wearing off.
ugh....i really really really really really hate RLS!!!!!
So, rather than legalize marijuana, which would probably take care of my RLS 100%, I will have to move on to a stronger opioid. I tried methadone in the past and it caused me alot of bad side effects. I'm not sure what is going to happen now. I'm already struggling to sleep through the night as I'm always waking up from my RLS by early morning...most likely cause the Norco is wearing off.
ugh....i really really really really really hate RLS!!!!!
I'm assuming even if they did ban acetaminophen combinations, the other combinations with aspirin or ibuprofen would still be available.. Not sure if Hydrocodone comes with either of those (I think it does.. Vicuprofen?) in either case.. At least with Percocet, Oxycodone and Oxycontin -should- still be available, ban or no ban they are suitable options if you can't tolerate Methadone for whatever reasons.
Oxycontin is time released, and MSContin (Morphine) is as well. If you are having problems with your dose wearing off you may want to ask you doctor about switching to a controlled release medication like Oxycontin or MS Contin.. They can be exepensive however, without insuracne.. ridiculously expensive.
Oxycontin is time released, and MSContin (Morphine) is as well. If you are having problems with your dose wearing off you may want to ask you doctor about switching to a controlled release medication like Oxycontin or MS Contin.. They can be exepensive however, without insuracne.. ridiculously expensive.
I think there'd be a pretty horrific backlash if they actually followed the panel's advice. Put together the people who need the drugs with the people who abuse the drugs and you'd have a hell of a lot of people pissed off. I wouldn't expect it to happen.
Personally, I'd just switch to oxycodone (alone). I get by fine on hydrocodone and don't need to step up, but I would if I had to. I probably should anyway, since even taking what little acetaminophen is in norco daily is probably not a great idea.
Personally, I'd just switch to oxycodone (alone). I get by fine on hydrocodone and don't need to step up, but I would if I had to. I probably should anyway, since even taking what little acetaminophen is in norco daily is probably not a great idea.
Disclaimer: I often talk about what I do and what works for me, but these are specific to me and you should always consult a healthcare professional before trying these things yourself, lest you endanger your health or life.
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clarkgriswald
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:15 pm
- Location: Los Angeles
Early on in my oxycodone therapy, my GP moved me to a version without acetaminophen. It doesn't help RLS and it causes liver problems, so why take it? I suggested it and he agreed. It's been eight years now and I'm happy not having taken daily doses of acetaminophen for that long. According to recent blood-work, my liver is in great shape.
jbuck wrote:I take Norco 10/325 3x a day and a Marinol 5mg at bedtime....so, not sure what is going to happen if they ban Norco...seems silly cause the FDA were the ones that put acetaminophen in there to begin with and I guess we are all just too stupid to read directions and monitor our daily acetaminophen intake.
So, rather than legalize marijuana, which would probably take care of my RLS 100%, I will have to move on to a stronger opioid. I tried methadone in the past and it caused me alot of bad side effects. I'm not sure what is going to happen now. I'm already struggling to sleep through the night as I'm always waking up from my RLS by early morning...most likely cause the Norco is wearing off.
ugh....i really really really really really hate RLS!!!!!
Jbuck....Just food for thought...you have tried Methadone and it did not work well for you...you are right where I was just before I developed a dependency to Vicodin....I now take Subutex which is a Detox med for Heroin users or opiot users. I started the detox in Oct. came off of the med a few months later but the RLS was driving me nuts. During my detox and taking subutex I had NO RLS at anytime day or night. Since telling the Addiction Specialist that I was in fear of going back to the pain killers so that I could get some sleep he was able to get it approved for me to continue to take the Subutex. I take a VERY low dose of it. I have a 2 mg tablet that I break in half to take 1mg in the morning and then I take the other half in the evening before I go to bed. Now when I say I take it twice a day that is only when I start to feel the 9V battery feeling starting up in my legs. If I don't feel it I don't take it.
I have had no side effects from it AT ALL I have told my dr. that I have had more energy since being on it, I seem to have much higher spirits since taking it, and most important I sleep like a ROCK every night and I do mean every night!
Now, not every dr can give it to you and they can not give it to you because you have RLS. You will need to go to the website for the medication and see what drs in your area can prescribe it to you. If you go that route you will need to call this dr. and tell him that you have an addiction/dependency to opiotes or he can not put you on it. Tell him its due to the Opiotes you take for RLS. Once on it and it takes away your RLS which I'm very confident it will, do what you have to do to stay on it. If the dr tells your ins. company that you are continuing to have cravings when you taper off of it you will be able to continue to take it. I have to write a letter (quality of life letter) to my dr. every 3 months saying that I have tried to taper off the med and continue to have cravings for Opiotes so that he can continue to keep me on it.
It has completely changed my life. I feel your pain with the meds. I was taking 750mg vicodin before I went to bed with an ativan and would get up 4 hours later to take another vicodin so my legs would stop sometimes I would even have to end up taking another ativan to chill out as well! It sucks bad. I truly believe that the lord placed me in the situation I was in with the dependency so that I could find this Dr. and get the relief I was looking for. I had lost so much weight from taking the pain pill and I looked really bad.
Don't let the lack of sleep take your life away from you. I hate to tell anyone to lie but sometimes we have to do what we have to do to live a normal pain free life!
I have serious reservations about telling someone to outright lie about an addiction, to get a medication..
I'm not really sure his situation dictates such drastic measures either. Short acting painkillers unfortunately do wear off earlier than most people like, especially for chronic users, its just an unfortunate fact of life.
However I'm not sure they would really ban the medications as it is now (but then the way the country is heading these days who can say..) and in that case, his problem simply seems to be an issue with dose timing and possibly amount.
Running out to an addiction clinic is a very bad idea if you aren't actually addicted to something. Not only would you be repeatedly lying about your addiction, but having that kind of documentation (and its legally required) about you personally can severely impact your professional career if you plan on moving up the ladder at different points in your life. Because exployers will do background tests, and drug screenings, and although they legally can't not hire you, or fire you because of this, they will simply find another excuse to give you - and it happens every day to plenty of people I am more than sure.
Also, if what you say is true about the number of patients a doctor can prescribe too, then it starts to become a morally reprehensible scheme. You are possibly denying someone who needs legitimate help (like you felt you did RLSgirl) and could possibly die if they don't get into treatment. I wouldn't want to walk around with that kind of guilt on my mind.
Now I know that we all feel that the issues is "do anything you can do to get help you have a right too" but lying about a serious addiction is just fundamentally wrong on so many levels and I don't think its something anyone here would support.
Just one more tidbit.. I don't think you have to go to an addiction specialist/clinic to get Subutex. A doctor simply needs to attend classes about dispensing and monitoring the drug, get certified, and is then licensed to dispense it.
I'm not really sure his situation dictates such drastic measures either. Short acting painkillers unfortunately do wear off earlier than most people like, especially for chronic users, its just an unfortunate fact of life.
However I'm not sure they would really ban the medications as it is now (but then the way the country is heading these days who can say..) and in that case, his problem simply seems to be an issue with dose timing and possibly amount.
Running out to an addiction clinic is a very bad idea if you aren't actually addicted to something. Not only would you be repeatedly lying about your addiction, but having that kind of documentation (and its legally required) about you personally can severely impact your professional career if you plan on moving up the ladder at different points in your life. Because exployers will do background tests, and drug screenings, and although they legally can't not hire you, or fire you because of this, they will simply find another excuse to give you - and it happens every day to plenty of people I am more than sure.
Also, if what you say is true about the number of patients a doctor can prescribe too, then it starts to become a morally reprehensible scheme. You are possibly denying someone who needs legitimate help (like you felt you did RLSgirl) and could possibly die if they don't get into treatment. I wouldn't want to walk around with that kind of guilt on my mind.
Now I know that we all feel that the issues is "do anything you can do to get help you have a right too" but lying about a serious addiction is just fundamentally wrong on so many levels and I don't think its something anyone here would support.
Just one more tidbit.. I don't think you have to go to an addiction specialist/clinic to get Subutex. A doctor simply needs to attend classes about dispensing and monitoring the drug, get certified, and is then licensed to dispense it.
Zach wrote:I have serious reservations about telling someone to outright lie about an addiction, to get a medication..
I'm not really sure his situation dictates such drastic measures either. Short acting painkillers unfortunately do wear off earlier than most people like, especially for chronic users, its just an unfortunate fact of life.
However I'm not sure they would really ban the medications as it is now (but then the way the country is heading these days who can say..) and in that case, his problem simply seems to be an issue with dose timing and possibly amount.
Running out to an addiction clinic is a very bad idea if you aren't actually addicted to something. Not only would you be repeatedly lying about your addiction, but having that kind of documentation (and its legally required) about you personally can severely impact your professional career if you plan on moving up the ladder at different points in your life. Because exployers will do background tests, and drug screenings, and although they legally can't not hire you, or fire you because of this, they will simply find another excuse to give you - and it happens every day to plenty of people I am more than sure.
Also, if what you say is true about the number of patients a doctor can prescribe too, then it starts to become a morally reprehensible scheme. You are possibly denying someone who needs legitimate help (like you felt you did RLSgirl) and could possibly die if they don't get into treatment. I wouldn't want to walk around with that kind of guilt on my mind.
Now I know that we all feel that the issues is "do anything you can do to get help you have a right too" but lying about a serious addiction is just fundamentally wrong on so many levels and I don't think its something anyone here would support.
Just one more tidbit.. I don't think you have to go to an addiction specialist/clinic to get Subutex. A doctor simply needs to attend classes about dispensing and monitoring the drug, get certified, and is then licensed to dispense it.
I went to my Dr. today. He asked me three months ago to not take the medication i'm on the day before my appointment so that he can document what happens to me since i'm using this as off label use. I didn't take it at all yesterday and got 2 hours and 40 minutes of sleep because of my legs. now he is asking me to go to another neuro dr. to speak to him about the medication i'm taking and seek his approval for taking it to deal with the rls. he wants me to bring a letter from him to place in my file so that if the Drug Administration audits his files he will be covered.
Now, the situation i'm in is what do i do if this Dr. will not agree to it and will not write this letter? i'm 99% sure the addiction Dr. is not going to continue to keep me on what is WORKING and not going to cause my physical damage like a pain killer addiction will. In this situation I can assure you that I'm going to do WHATEVER I have to do to continue to take this medication! its the only thing that has given me my life back. I hate to lie about anything but I can assure you of this......if need be to continue to get it so i can sleep I will be an addict the rest of my life. These Drs have no idea what they are doing....not even the drs. who are suppose to know what they are doing. I have spent so much money and taken off so much time from work only to go to another dr. that knows nothing. their biggest issue in my eyes is that they put you on something that ends up working but has to be used off label and then they don't want to keep you on it in fear of the drug administration. Why be a dr. if the only thing your really concerned about is what may cause them some discomfort? I won't go for it! This medication works for me, it keeps me from having to take pain killers and not be able to think straight, it keeps me from feeling like a prisoner in my own body to pain pills, and it allows me to sleep and sleep in the bed with my husband! I will stoop to that low and lie to continue to use it. right or wrong i will continue to get it.
I wasn't really attacking what YOU are going through, just trying to point out that your situation and his situation are vastly different. Although we fundamentally disagree on whether or not you really were an addict based on what you've told us - that is irrelevant. You believed you had a problem and you sought help. You've also made it quite clear you would likely turn to other means to get your meds if you needed too.
It's a lot more clear in your case that you are where you belong in "the system" vs someone who is doing rather OK on another med, but is simply worried that its going to be banned.
Now, when you go to this Neuro, REMEMBER to print out the Mayo Clinic Algorithm (link in my signature) and take it to him and be sure to point him to all the references to opiate medications. Make sure you tell him that you feel like you've had serious problems with opiates and always wanting to take more, and how this doctor you are seeing now got you onto the Suboxone and your life has been good ever since, your RLS is gone, you aren't worried about taking more medication when the next dose is, etc..
In case it doesn't go over well, you should ask the addiction Dr. you are seeing if he will accept a letter of recommendation if you can get one from an actual RLS specialist, like Dr. B (who answers e-mails very promptly) who was actually part of the panel who wrote the Mayo Algorithm and has been treating RLS patients since the 1980's.. I personally don't know what he'll say about Subutex, however he seems quite willing to prescribe Methadone when it is needed, so I would think he might be a little more considerate in recommending to your doctor you continue your treatment
It's a lot more clear in your case that you are where you belong in "the system" vs someone who is doing rather OK on another med, but is simply worried that its going to be banned.
Now, when you go to this Neuro, REMEMBER to print out the Mayo Clinic Algorithm (link in my signature) and take it to him and be sure to point him to all the references to opiate medications. Make sure you tell him that you feel like you've had serious problems with opiates and always wanting to take more, and how this doctor you are seeing now got you onto the Suboxone and your life has been good ever since, your RLS is gone, you aren't worried about taking more medication when the next dose is, etc..
In case it doesn't go over well, you should ask the addiction Dr. you are seeing if he will accept a letter of recommendation if you can get one from an actual RLS specialist, like Dr. B (who answers e-mails very promptly) who was actually part of the panel who wrote the Mayo Algorithm and has been treating RLS patients since the 1980's.. I personally don't know what he'll say about Subutex, however he seems quite willing to prescribe Methadone when it is needed, so I would think he might be a little more considerate in recommending to your doctor you continue your treatment
follow up
Ok, I thought it was best to post a follow up to my original post.
I have already gone through a major disaster with the insurance companies because the pharmacy where I was getting my meds (particularly the Norco) has students from a local university. They repeatedly reported the wrong DEA # and thus my insurance company sent letters to all my doctors reporting that I was getting Norco from different doctors including some from out of state. This made my doctor very nervous - as would be expected. Therefore, *I* had to contact the pharmacy, print out all my prescriptions from my insurance company files, and then go thru every single one with the insurance rep to clear up the mess. It took 3 months and thankfully my doctor believed me when I showed him my proof so he continued to prescribe. The insurance company FINALLY sent a letter of apology to all my doctors explaining what happened. So, there is NO WAY in hell I'm going to lie about being addicted to pain meds (when I'm not) and have that on my medical record. I know that I am dependent on them and have discussed this issue with my doctor. IF the FDA follows thru with this (which it looks like they won't) then he will just prescribe oxcy or he said they will have hydro without the tylenol. So I'm really not that worried, and I'm ok with the dependency as I do not have a addictive personality so I could always taper off if something else comes along that works better.
The other issue, is that I found out, that due to recent stresses in my life, that my insomnia rebounded significantly, so that was what was actually waking my up at 4am and NOT the RLS. I actually found an iPhone APP called Sleep Analyze that basically sets a sound threshold and will record anything that hits above that. So you can then review it in the morning to see how many sleep disruptions you had (tossing and turning, RLS, kicking, dog barking, etc etc). This is how I found out that I wasn't waking up from the RLS, but just due to my insomnia. RLS and insomnia are not a good combination.
I also have panic disorder so I take Klonopin and Xanax (for emergency panic attacks). So we upped my Klonopin to twice a day (1 morning, one at night) and everything is good. Then lets add to that my ADD so I also take Provigal which helps with the ADD and fatigue and is almost a miracle drug in itself.
Do I feel like a junkie having to take Norco, Klonopin, Xanax, Provigal, and Marinol? yea, but it does the trick. I still strongly believe that if medical cannibas was available I would be able to stop all these meds and just take the cannabis, but we are a long long way from that ever happening. I know alot of people have said 'why not just smoke pot since you have the marinol to back up a drug test'...well, cause I don't want to get arrested and it DOES work just not as well. I think many people that say it doesn't are possibly wanting to get the real thing, but then some things work for some people and some don't. The Marinol really does help with my RLS when taken at night since I don't want to take it during the day with the help of the Norco to get me past the 4 hours that is typical for these short acting opiates..that is why I mostly take the Norco during the day since I have 24x7 RLS.
So....I feel like I've gone on a bunch of tangents here. My main point is that I have to agree with Zach, and I know from experience, that being labeled a 'drug seeker' is not good and stating that you are addicted to a med that goes on your medical record is also not good. When I *was* on methadone, I had to go to the ER due to a kidney stone and they flat out would not give me any pain meds as soon as I mentioned I was taking methadone. When they asked why I was taking it and I told them for RLS, they said 'well, that's a new one'...and then they ignored me and I ended up walking out (taking the IV out myself) and I had to pay almost $3,000 for the visit for nothing! Not even a glass of water!...now when I first walked in they were as nice as can be, ready to give me the pain shot and everything...I should of kept my mouth shut...lesson learned.
If Suboxone works for you, then that is great and you should continue. However, I really do think that you should not lie to get meds as it just makes more of a mess of things for others. However, I know how desperate people can get for relief of RLS, so if that is what works for you, then that is what you should do. Just be forwarned, that it will probably follow you on your med records for a long time.
JBuck[/i]
I have already gone through a major disaster with the insurance companies because the pharmacy where I was getting my meds (particularly the Norco) has students from a local university. They repeatedly reported the wrong DEA # and thus my insurance company sent letters to all my doctors reporting that I was getting Norco from different doctors including some from out of state. This made my doctor very nervous - as would be expected. Therefore, *I* had to contact the pharmacy, print out all my prescriptions from my insurance company files, and then go thru every single one with the insurance rep to clear up the mess. It took 3 months and thankfully my doctor believed me when I showed him my proof so he continued to prescribe. The insurance company FINALLY sent a letter of apology to all my doctors explaining what happened. So, there is NO WAY in hell I'm going to lie about being addicted to pain meds (when I'm not) and have that on my medical record. I know that I am dependent on them and have discussed this issue with my doctor. IF the FDA follows thru with this (which it looks like they won't) then he will just prescribe oxcy or he said they will have hydro without the tylenol. So I'm really not that worried, and I'm ok with the dependency as I do not have a addictive personality so I could always taper off if something else comes along that works better.
The other issue, is that I found out, that due to recent stresses in my life, that my insomnia rebounded significantly, so that was what was actually waking my up at 4am and NOT the RLS. I actually found an iPhone APP called Sleep Analyze that basically sets a sound threshold and will record anything that hits above that. So you can then review it in the morning to see how many sleep disruptions you had (tossing and turning, RLS, kicking, dog barking, etc etc). This is how I found out that I wasn't waking up from the RLS, but just due to my insomnia. RLS and insomnia are not a good combination.
I also have panic disorder so I take Klonopin and Xanax (for emergency panic attacks). So we upped my Klonopin to twice a day (1 morning, one at night) and everything is good. Then lets add to that my ADD so I also take Provigal which helps with the ADD and fatigue and is almost a miracle drug in itself.
Do I feel like a junkie having to take Norco, Klonopin, Xanax, Provigal, and Marinol? yea, but it does the trick. I still strongly believe that if medical cannibas was available I would be able to stop all these meds and just take the cannabis, but we are a long long way from that ever happening. I know alot of people have said 'why not just smoke pot since you have the marinol to back up a drug test'...well, cause I don't want to get arrested and it DOES work just not as well. I think many people that say it doesn't are possibly wanting to get the real thing, but then some things work for some people and some don't. The Marinol really does help with my RLS when taken at night since I don't want to take it during the day with the help of the Norco to get me past the 4 hours that is typical for these short acting opiates..that is why I mostly take the Norco during the day since I have 24x7 RLS.
So....I feel like I've gone on a bunch of tangents here. My main point is that I have to agree with Zach, and I know from experience, that being labeled a 'drug seeker' is not good and stating that you are addicted to a med that goes on your medical record is also not good. When I *was* on methadone, I had to go to the ER due to a kidney stone and they flat out would not give me any pain meds as soon as I mentioned I was taking methadone. When they asked why I was taking it and I told them for RLS, they said 'well, that's a new one'...and then they ignored me and I ended up walking out (taking the IV out myself) and I had to pay almost $3,000 for the visit for nothing! Not even a glass of water!...now when I first walked in they were as nice as can be, ready to give me the pain shot and everything...I should of kept my mouth shut...lesson learned.
If Suboxone works for you, then that is great and you should continue. However, I really do think that you should not lie to get meds as it just makes more of a mess of things for others. However, I know how desperate people can get for relief of RLS, so if that is what works for you, then that is what you should do. Just be forwarned, that it will probably follow you on your med records for a long time.
JBuck[/i]
Just curious what you are taking Marinol for? We've discussed Marinol vs Pot around here at one point and I don't think anyone was sure if it would help with RLS or not. But if you know it helps with the RLS that's good..
Also.. Since you mentioned being on Methadone. Did you stop because of the hospital incident, or for other reasons ?
Also.. how long ago was this? Did you threaten to sue them? That was downright horrible treatment, and I would have disputed that bill up down left and right.
Also, it wouldn't be a good idea to keep your mouth shut in the hospital unfortunately, as if you were taking a medication and didn't tell them, they could easily give you something that would interact with it and kill you.
I'm sorry you got treated that way, that is downright disgusting. If this wasn't too long ago I would definitely consider taking action and making complaints against the doctor(s) and staff members that were involved.
Also.. Since you mentioned being on Methadone. Did you stop because of the hospital incident, or for other reasons ?
Also.. how long ago was this? Did you threaten to sue them? That was downright horrible treatment, and I would have disputed that bill up down left and right.
Also, it wouldn't be a good idea to keep your mouth shut in the hospital unfortunately, as if you were taking a medication and didn't tell them, they could easily give you something that would interact with it and kill you.
I'm sorry you got treated that way, that is downright disgusting. If this wasn't too long ago I would definitely consider taking action and making complaints against the doctor(s) and staff members that were involved.