emotionally numb

For everything and anything else not covered in the other RLS sections.
shauntario
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: ontario

emotionally numb

Post by shauntario »

Greetings from Canada
I am a new member, I have been reading your posts,every one seems to be really sincere , and caring for each other,
I too have RLS. along with Fibromyalgia--- what a mess --
I recenly had a sleep study done--- it showed no slow sleep-- plm of 586 index being 142.5 ve high-- no sleep apnea Thank God for that!!
i am currently taking-- effexor i am being weaned off that along with desipramine-- 3 days to go on both these meds
i take 0.5 mg of Lorazopam--- my doctor is putting me on Mirtazapine in place of the effexor---- the sleep specialists office called and said this doctor wanted to see me asap --- i saw him and was very impressed with his knowledge of RLS he prescribed---neurontin 300 mg to start and wants me to follow up with him in one month--
which is amazing here in Canada-- the wait to see a specialist or any new doctor is usually about seven months!!
My question is--- does any one else out there have this feeling of just being emotinally numb--
i used to cry at anything and everything--
this past year i cant even cry-- this is not normal for me---
its not the medication-- cause this feeling began before i began taking any of these medications--
i am an american married to a Canadian-- and have been living in Canada for the past 5 years----
i had to wait 4 years to get my medical coverage-- so i basically went off all my previous medications till i was covered by ohip
I am not saying i dont feel emotions-- like sadness and happiness-- i do-- i am a very soft hearted person-- as i watch the news about the devastion caused by hurricane Katrina ---- i am so upset-- but i can t get the tears to come---- does any one else have this problem ?????
Thanks for your time
shauntario

becat
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:41 pm

Hi Shauntario

Post by becat »

Hi and Welcome to you.
I just read your post. Too late to say Sorry for the delay in an answer for one of us. Just seems to be a busy time for all.
I really can't believe how lucky you were to see a doctor that fast and had real knowledge of RLS too.... :shock:
you've had a rough road with sleep and medications, I'd say numb is a normal response. If your not sleeping and healing your body ....And what I learned from JumpyOwl about dreaming might also be involved here.
I'm copying some of his post for you and I'll give you the link as well.
I simply learned a ton from what he wrote and you might find some comfort in it too.
Depression, Dreaming and Exhaustion:The New Link

How your thoughts affect you physically

"Depressed people dream up to three times as much as non-depressed people."

This is a startling, and illuminating fact. And when combined with a recent breakthrough in dream and depression research by Joseph Griffin of the European Therapy Studies Institute, it gives us a clear understanding of the how depression affects us physically.

The cycle of depression starts with depressive thinking style. On the negative aspects of things, and depressing thoughts one would keep ruminating. This brings about stress that is not ressolved. These open loops have to be ressolved by the brain which it does during extensive REM periods at night. This is hard work for the brain and it occurs at the expense of the deep, relaxing sleep phases. So one wakes up exhausted and fatigued in the morning, or early in the morning.

The continued stress shows up in increased cortisol level in one's blood (the stress hormone).

The Key Understanding about Dreams and Depression is thus:

When unfulfilled emotional arousal remains in the brain's limbic system at sleep onset, the brain creates scenarios that allow those loops to complete. We call them dreams.

The dream acts out, in metaphor, a situation that will allow the emotional loop to be completed and therefore 'flushed' from the brain.
In other words, an imaginary experience whose pattern resembles the 'real life' one closely enough to create the same emotional reaction.
For example, during the day you worry about what someone has said to you, thinking that they were perhaps criticising or making fun of you. That night you have an anxiety dream where someone stabs at you with daggers and you try to run away. The dream allows your system to complete the loop started by the emotional arousal.

Depressive thinking styles mean more arousal

Depressive thinking styles will tend to cause more negative emotional arousal, and therefore more dreaming. This extra dreaming is to try to 'clear the brain' for the next day, but because our negative arousals are excessive when depressed, our natural rhythms find it hard to cope with this "over-dreaming":

Why is over-dreaming bad for me?

Basically, because dreaming is hard work.

Dreaming itself is not a restful activity. Dreaming is called 'paradoxical sleep' because brain wave patterns are similar to those of the brain when completely awake.

Dreaming is a state of arousal.

As far as much of your brain is concerned, your dream is real. So adrenaline and other stress hormones in your system will be active in the body.

This is a double edged sword, because over-dreaming, as well as using up these hormones and energy, is actually making it harder for the body to make more. As you try to flush out the incomplete emotions, you spend more time in REM sleep, and therefore less time in deep sleep, when your body should be recuperating in preparation for producing these hormones for the next day.

So if you are over-dreaming you're not resting but flooding your system with adrenaline and other stress hormones. If most of your sleep consists of dreams, your body and mind will begin to feel very tired during the day. Depressed people often report that the worst time of day is first thing in the morning.

Sometimes a depressed person may start waking up early in the morning and not be able to get back to sleep. This may be a way of the body trying to cut down on over-dreaming in order to try and lift depression.

http://www.restlesslegs.org/phpBB2/view ... sc&start=0

For me, this made total sense. Your body waking you up and telling you to complete the emotional loops or else! Your medical problems alone are enough to deal with and I'm betting you suffer with pain as well. There's no real escape from chronic pain. It's very tiring on your system as a whole.
My hope is that you'll come back and let us show you the care we can extend. Your just in a place where a little support might go a long way. I hope this finds you doing much better. Just in case ........
Heres a huge cyber HUG for ya ((((((((shauntario)))))))).

ViewsAskew
Moderator
Posts: 16259
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by ViewsAskew »

shauntario, I read your post amid several others and meant to come back to it. . .alas, I obviously did not. Gracious Becat found it, thank goodness.

I remember vividly the last year before I went to the doctor about the PLMD. I knew I had it, but I wasn't sure how severe it was. It didn't occur to me that it was really bothering me all that much. But I was sleeping long hours and still tired. Over that year, I stopped doing anything important to me. I lived in an artist residence and stopped creating. I would sit at my desk for hours, just staring.

I was numb in a way, but it sounds different that what you are saying. It was more that I was unable to participate in life - I didn't have the energy to be interested. Getting sleep made an incredible difference, but it took a few months before I was getting caught up and I fully realized how much I lost during that time.

Ann
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest

Managing Your RLS

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

shauntario
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: ontario

thank-you for the replys

Post by shauntario »

Thanks for the welcome and the responce----I was starting to wonder if any one was going to reply---I do understand-- as we all have not enough hours in a day---too bad these long nights weren't quite sooooo busy--- the legs ---and the arms and all the other stuff our bodies do when all we want is a nice peaceful sleep :cry: in regards to the info on depression and dreaming --- it all sure makes good sense
I'm sure I am depressed arent we all at one time or the other--- I ,ve been depressed in the past and my symptoms are just the opposite of the way I have been feeling emotionally numb--- when ever I was in a depressed state--i could cry a river-- not any more--
I wish I could--I truly do believe that tears are cleansing so I know Iwould feel better if I could have a good cleansing cry :?
As far as pain with the Fybro--oh yes------- :( the one thing the doctors I have seen over the last year are very stingy with is pain meds--- they are sooooo afraid you will get addicted--- take tylenol and motrin together-- works as good as any thing they say----yeah right :roll:
my family doctor is the one who prescribes most of my meds well, all my meds except the Neurontin that's from the sleep specialist---I have been taking the Neurontin approx two weeks-- seems to be helping some--- so we shall see-- i see him again on the 23rd of this month-- maybe I won't start the augmentation with it for awhile --if I do I hope its between now and the time I see him---- supposed to add mirapex this visit---- and what ever else --- time will tell-- :?:
thanks again
Take care all
shauntario

becat
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:41 pm

Yeah you came back

Post by becat »

Hi Shaun,
Glad you came back and responding to us.
I was not depressed I was hopeless that life could be different. Chronic pain and sleep deprivation were just leaving me empty as well. Without the hope it could change then forget it. I'd stay in bed tossing a turning...lol
Most doctors don't like pain medication. Yes, addiction is a horrible thing. but I don't think my hubby is addicted to his heart medications, but he needs them to live well and healthy. Now pain medication is a bit different I understand that, but without it I'd still be the sad, tired, worn out woman I was a year ago. Studies have proven that people with chronic pain as less likely to abuse pain medications. Makes sense to me, I don't take it if I dont' need it.
I dont' take enough to be 100% out of pain, but I bring it down to a manageable level. I'm not dopey or messed up, but I can function. Your sleep doc might be prepared to help you with this, more so than the GP.
I'm lucky to have a RLS doc that works with me about medications. I don't abuse it. I keep an accruate count day by day. I lock my medications in a safe. I tow a hard line to make sure I am more than vegilant about my medications. I never raise a dose without the doc knowing about it and his blessing.
At your next appt. why not talk to the doc about pain control. It's worth a shot.
And about the crying, yes a good cry cures a ton. Give it time sweetheart, your not lost. You simply need some relief. Grieve maybe a bit for the you that was lost in finding the diagnosis of fibro and RLS. Come here and share with us. Your not alone anymore.....tears or not.
Hugs to ya.

Guest

thanks again

Post by Guest »

Glad I came back
It is so good to know that i am not alone with these seemingly never ending struggles
and that there are so many caring people that we all have so many of the same trials that we are individually experiancing in so many similar ways--be pretty boring if we all had exacty the same aches and pains :wink: HA! I don.t mean that i,m gladyou all are hurting too---ii wouldn't wish this on any one :oops:
Im having a whole lot of fybro fog goin on in my little pea brain this evening--gotta blame it on the disease :lol:
for all of you people that are blessed with fybromyalgia---i was in the tub soaking this night-- and i thought of something i have printed off in a web site called fibrohugs.com i think that the right address-- any way there is ariticle in there called A letter to Normals---- this is the best way to describe how people with fybro really feel---I could't have written it better myself--its a very touching explanation of how we feel and would be very helpful for victims and to share with the people who want to really know what goes on in our real world it fits me to a t
I just wanted to share that with you while the thought was fresh with me
I hope some one is as Blessed by it as i am
Thanks for the hugs
Back at ya

Guest

oops

Post by Guest »

that was from me :oops:
i sent too soon sorry
shaun

Penguinrocks
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:03 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Post by Penguinrocks »

Hello Shaun and welcome!

I, too, have fibro with everything else. I know the pain. The cracking in my neck when all i have to do is take a drink and it sounds like a gun shot!

Days where i cannot move my right hip and i'm a 38 year old trapped in a 98 year old body.

You are NOT alone my dear Shaun and you couldn't have chosen a better forum to join. The people here are the best!

Again, welcome from a Penguin
Beware the Penguin

shauntario
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: ontario

thanks p

Post by shauntario »

Hello Penquin
Thank you for your reply
Fibro is a real pain ehhh--???(-as they say here in canada-)--
I am pure american --arkansas to be exact
not making fun Ido truly enjoy being here other than missing my family :cry:
I am truly fortunate to be married to a very compassionate man-- without his love and support--i don't know what I would do--
even though i beat him up in bed with all my thrashing around and on the days I can barely move being in so much pain-- which are most days --(amazes me how when someone can barely move can jerk their legs and arms so violently when th e rls kicks in)--
he caters to me so graciously---gotta love him .He trys to arrange his work schedule to meet my doctors appointments-- not the ones here in the town we live-- but the ones in and around the GTA---
did some of that driving when we first moved here-- not gonna happen if i can avoid it now---being on some of those major highways and having a Fibro moment--- :roll: my sense of direction is not that great anyway!!Just curious is that a problem with you?
Do you ever just kinda sit in a daze at a stop light--- waiting to see how many colors it will change to?
Or stop at a stop sign and think to your self--ok now I am supposed to turn which way? :oops:
all joking aside these truly are symtoms of fibro---- that a lot of people are unaware of(also menopause) but thats a whole other subject-- yes I have been Blessed with that in what feels like an eternity and i,m only 51
k I have rattled on enough
thanks again and good to hear from you
shaun
shauntario

ksxroads
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:19 pm
Location: Kansas

Post by ksxroads »

Dear Shaun,

{{{{BIG HUG}}}}} Ima only 52 ... Today I spent some time at fibrohugs.com thanks for the addy. My doctor thinks I have fibro... I KNOW I have RLS.

so this fibro fog is a blessing in disquise it is something tangible a reality ... thanks for the stop light scenerios ... I can recall one time at a stop sign when in one of those undeclared states which you have given a name - coming to the realization that cars were actually moving around me.

While it has not been easy, for years I have developed coping strategies that kept me going forward. Then three years ago the bottom dropped and the pit was so deep and dark I thought I'd never find that ladder.

Like you I have a wonderful mate who is very supportive which has helped.

It has taken a lot of perseverance to get to this point. It saddens me to think of others in suffering who do not have access to the internet. It has been a blessing. The information I received from other women going through menopause helped. Now this site has truly given me the tools to continue in my healing.

It is still difficult to talk to *outsiders*, your pointing me to the Letter to normals has helped. The few I mentioned RLS to don't really understand what it is. And the one person I mentioned fibromyalgia to said oh that's what doctors diagnose when they can't find anything else wrong with you. Well, defense shields on high... won't talk about that again till I am fully armed!

These wonderful people here are my only hope! Yes Obeone Kanobi (sp) you are my only hope. It is their perseverance and knowlege that is helping me to regain self esteem and confidence, a very strong component of healing.

The dream info is very interesting too. As lately I have been able to sleep but dream profusely... I certainly can relate to this concept - stress not resolved ...

Walk in Beauty, Hazel

Penguinrocks
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:03 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Post by Penguinrocks »

Hey Shaun and everyone.

I've not yet found myself in a fibro fog, but i have noticed that my steel trap memory is slipping a tad.

I just want the pain gone. Stress is outta site and i swear that increases the symptoms 10 fold.

I'm from Wisconsin actually, so mid westerners we be! :-)

Again welcome, vent, share, cry we're all family now.

Penguin
Beware the Penguin

shauntario
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: ontario

Post by shauntario »

Hello Hazel and Penguin
I hope you are having a GREAT day??
I'm glad you used the fibrohugs site---isn't The Letter to Normals a good idea to share with people who do not understand the disease?
I have shared it with several of my loved ones and they each told me that they had no idea what we go through----if you don't have it you don't have a clue-- just like any other affliction that is invisisble.
Someone should write a letter like that about rls sufferers--hmmmm might be a project
-I spoke with a lady yesterday that is actually the president of a Fybromyalgia Support Group here in the town where i live-- that I belong to( we were conversing how ya doin etc.)
I mentioned to her about having a really hard time with the RLS-- having the sleep study etc. she said whats that, (meaning the rls) Duh????
I am tempted to go to the first meeting of the year this afternoon just to ask who else hasn't any idea what is goiing on with thier bodies--
I was diagnosed some fifteen years ago with fibro--
and I don.t remember ever not having the rls,I know there must be some people that aren.t afflicted with both sooner or later, just like CFS they all seem to be a package deal-- thoughts?The older I get the worse i get-- something to look forward too---- :shock:
Penguin please don,t let that steel trap slam shut that would't be a good thing :wink:Take care of yourself-- you are the only one of you we have-- :lol:
Fibro fog-ahhh yes what a gift :roll:

I was taking my mother in law some place the other day we were sitting at a stop light (for awhile) when my mother in law says to me why did you stop way back here?? lLets just say I wasn't quite up to where one would usually stop and wait for the light to turn green--- :oops: God Love her she will be eighty this month --- and she even noticed--- :shock:
I really am a good driver-- and i do my best to stay safe--
i think that sometimes being somewhat proccupied in the brain .
helps me to actually pay closer attention to what i.m doing---
this doesn't happen all the time--
seems worse if I have had a bad night the night before --I had a really bad night last night-- meds didn't help at all -- not good!!!! I will be staying home today :wink:
Will close this and stop rambling (till next time)HA! HA!
i,m so thankful I have found each and everyone of you.
It does feel good to share
HUGS to ALL
shauntario

ksxroads
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:19 pm
Location: Kansas

Post by ksxroads »

{{{{BIG HUGS Shaun and PenquinRocks}}}}}

And sending many rays of sunshine. It is cold a dreary here on the upper plains of Kansas. Took some time to get moving this morning, took the ibprofen, not much help, took my supplements, then finally the loratab - has finally kicked in and I can move.

Just being newly diagnosed it is difficult for me to discern what is fibro and what is RLS. I definitely know the sleepless nights of living with RLS, and restless feeling during the day I attribute to RLS.

The at times overwhelming fatigue in arm and leg muscles; the tenderness of my breast bone and shortness of breath, knots and muscle soreness, may be fibro. I am still learning.

I would be interested in knowing what meds you are using to treat the fibro if any. Or any info on how you manage your symptoms.

When nothing seemed to help I began massage therapy two years ago, I have been using massage therapy which initially was quite painful, I would be hard pressed to move the next day. Initially I would go two or three times a week. She said before long once a month would be fine. That never happened. However, I managed to get by once a week. She suggested I ask the doctor to check me out more thoroughly as she felt there was more to what was arong with me than just muscle spasms.

I recently read about Primal Reflex Release Technique as a Treatment Option for Fibromyalgia which I forwarded to my co worker for his wife.
http://www.arthritis.org/communities/Ch ... t/PRRT.asp

Truly thankful that my job is fairly flexible, and that I have a good leave plan. I never would have made it this close to retirement any where else. Now my goal is to make it to retirement! hahahaha Everyone said the last two years will go by so quickly. Who'd have thought I'd be moving so slooooo. hahahahaha

Just happy to have found you. Hazel

Penguinrocks
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:03 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Post by Penguinrocks »

Hello Everysmurf!

Sorry, flashback to childhood and wanted to make y'all smile.

Finally getting rain here, Ophelia's on her way up to my house!!!!!

But lemme tell ya...OUCH! Good Lord! the pain......

Anyway, not much to say today, but wanted to let you all know I love ya very much!

Penguin
Beware the Penguin

shauntario
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: ontario

Post by shauntario »

Hi Hazel
Sorry not to have responded to your post sooner.
Sounds like Fybro to me--- only your doc can say for sure--
I hope you have a good one!!!
As far as my meds--- I take Baclofen its a muscle relaxer
and Lorazapam-- not much relief with either--
they are prescribing both of these drugs to help with the RLS also
every persons symptoms are somewhat different-
-I describe mine to most as this-------- feels like a rubberband would (if a rubberband could have feelings) that is being stretched as far as it possibly could be stretched before it snaps :shock:
If you can close your eyes and picture this you will know what i mean--- the tightness like your parts want to snap but they don't--- just feels like they would anytime!!!! the constant s t r e t chhhhhhhh!!!
I too have the heaviness in my arms especially---
folding laundry --or raising them to look at clothes on the racks in the stores is extremly uncomfortable for me( should make shopping cheaper) :roll:
In regards to your massage therapy if it helps go for it--
just make sure you aren.t getting the really deep tissue kind---- will make you hurt more
-my husband plays the piano and has extremely strong fingers
it took an acupuncturist telling him to massage me gently not to use so much pressure ---- because my muscles are very sensitive to the touch -- before he actually realized ---he didn't realize his strength--
don't get me wrong-- I love his magic fingers---but there are too many spots too numerous to mention that can't handle that kind of pressure.
Gotta go and try to get some things done around here today
Talk to you soon
Take Care
shauntario

Post Reply