Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and crazy legs related?

susieandirenes · Post by **susieandirenes** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:24 am

"Help me! Help me! sir, she said......Befor my family shoots me dead!" Have had rls most of my life and am 65 years old. Been on medication for many years. Sure as heck don't want to start taking meds for ADD also!

I've learned that the busier I keep my mind, the less my crazy legs bother me. After doing this for more than 40 years as a coping skill for the rls., I now find it almost impossible to stay focused (unless it's on something completely new), and it is very difficult to finish anything because as soon as something is no longer a challenge.....I want to move on to something that is. :roll:

The other day I read the symptoms for Attention Deficit Disorder, and I could be their adult poster child! My husband's name is John....and my family has nick-named him "Saint John". Friends say that if John dies first, they will put on his tombstone, "Still waiting for Sue!"

Has anyone else wondered about this?
Does it make sense to anyone but me?
Any suggestions on what to do now?

Neco · Post by **Neco** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:32 am

I was diagnosed ADD/ADHD when I was 11 or 12. I don't think there is any real direct relationship between the two, but in theory I guess the inability to stay focused on something for too long can make dealing with your RLS through mental tasks a bit more difficult for sure.

SquirmingSusan · Post by **SquirmingSusan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:54 am

LOL, Little Bunny Foo Foo!

When I was younger, I was quite focused. Got good grades, worked hard, did my chores... Only had occasional, mild RLS, and always slept well. Until college when I had roommates who kept me up.

Now that I'm almost 50, my brain is scattered to bits. I'm like a poster child for adult ADD. But then, when the body has to keep moving all the time to avoid discomfort, how is the mind supposed to function.

It's amazing. Every night after I take my Vicodin, I get a period of time where I can focus and actually get things done. No pain, no creepy crawlies. And the doctor only wants to give me that stuff to help me sleep.

Why waste my only focused and pain free time of the day on sleep?

It's a classic chicken or the egg question. Which came first, the ADD or the RLS... All I know is that when I'm in terrible pain, like I've been lately, or have the creepy-crawlies - it's impossible to focus.

Susan

stitch · Post by **stitch** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:54 am

I have had RLS all my life and now 70 and they have tried to say I am ADD and I might be but I can sit for hours or use to doing counted cross stitching. Just had to count the stitches many different times. I would count and then right away forget and go back and count again. If I am sewing have to read directions so many times and I guess that could be ADD. When I was working I hated to go to meetings because I could never remember what ppl were saying.

But I would still get RLS at same time so I don't know if there is a connection but I have read that when RLS starts do something to keep your mind off the legs. Easier said then done.

Many times I get on computer and try to read but can't because of the legs jumping. Jeannie

susieandirenes · Post by **susieandirenes** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:38 pm

Am so glad you replied.........thanks! Found some very interesting info. online about dopamine. Isn't that one of the issues with rls?

"L-Tyrosine. This is an amino acid (protein) that the body uses to synthesize dopamine and norepinephrine, the two neurotransmitters believed to be involved in ADD ADHD.

These neurotransmitters are the targets of the medications used to treat ADD. Some studies have shown that children with add/adhd may have lower levels of this amino acid.

By increasing the intake of LTyrosine through diet or supplements, it is possible to increase the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine available in the brain.["

H-m-m-m-m,

[/b]

nancyhugh · Post by **nancyhugh** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:47 pm

RLS and ADHD/ADD are chemically opposite in the brain. I have both. As well as Tourette's syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder. RLS is too little dopamine and the others are too much dopamine. I had Tourette's and adhd first. and got rls from the medication i'm on for them, because they messed up the dopamine in my brain. I believe it's very unusual for people to have both rls and adhd.

Post by **ViewsAskew** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:08 pm

Nancyhugh is basically right. . .however new research is showing it to be a little more complicated.

RLS is most recently thought to be not so much a lack of dopamine, but dopamine at the wrong time (a regulation issue). We don't have enough in the evening when we need it for sleep, but sometime in the early morning hours, our brains realize that we are critically low and call out the dopamine troops. The brain then floods with dopamine and we finally fall asleep. At this time, we have much more dopamine than we need.

So, in a way, at this time, we are in a similar state to ADHD and Tourette's.

Also, complicating this further, current research has shown that at least some of the cases of ADD/ADHD in children may actually be RLS.

No easy answers here, I'm afraid.

eliza · Post by **eliza** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Nancyhugh,

It sounds like you’d be the perfect person for those studies Ann was talking about. Does anyone know how many of us have both Tourette’s and RLS? If I were a researcher, that would be my first question. If dopamine is swinging like a pendulum, why don’t more of us have both, especially after treatment to control our RLS? Should we be worried about that kind of swing with our brain chemistry? Is it only in rare cases that the pendulum has such a wide range? Nancyhugh, has anyone discussed any of this with you?

Eliza

Post by **ViewsAskew** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:09 pm

susieandirenes wrote: By increasing the intake of LTyrosine through diet or supplements, it is possible to increase the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine available in the brain.["

H-m-m-m-m,

[/b]

A few of our members have had luck using L-Tyrosine to control RLS. But strangely, not very many of us. Two in particular, use it all the time. At least one who tried it found it made her RLS worse. I found it to possibly help a little, but not sufficiently to reduce meds. So, I do keep it bedside and if I wake up with RLS that the meds didn't control, I take it. I do go back to sleep, but I might have without it - hard to say without any real study.

So, if you try it, please go to the non-pharma section and let us know your results (and results after a month or two so we can see if it helps over time, not just one night).

susieandirenes · Post by **susieandirenes** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:09 am

THANKFUL ! ! Thanks nancyhugh for sharing, and reminding me of
that attitude once again. I'll stick you in my prayers for
awhile. I am often around people in wheelchairs and am
aware that at least my legs work - they work overtime - but
they work.

ViewsAskew, what valuable information. I'm so glad you have been read-ing this. Maybe I can gain more control of my life by using some of the coping skills of those with ADD. I will certainly try the L-Tyrosine. I use Shaklee products (am one of those who used to call it the s-word til I had to find an alternative to cortisone shots to control pain from bone spurs on my c-spine. Made a believer out of me!).

My neurologist has been pretty good at working with me, but is really resistant to the Vicadin type drugs (he is a psychologist also). Don't know what he will want to put me on when I go back in 2 weeks, but after reading about the augmentation, I am positive the Mirapex I have been on for a year or so is causing it. Any suggestions? It's tough when I'm not asleep. The last time in when I told him about my daytime problems he gave me samples of Topomax to start on, but after reading the side affects, I decided not to take it.

Maybe I can slow my brain down and gain more control of my life by just using some of the coping skills of those with ADD.
[/u]

nancyhugh · Post by **nancyhugh** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:46 am

Is it only in rare cases that the pendulum has such a wide range? Nancyhugh, has anyone discussed any of this with you?

Living in such a small country (Ireland) there aren't many people with either condition. Also, very few neurologists. (Stupid government-for a different time!) My neurologist had never come across someone with rls and tourette's, although he had heard of cases. He had to ask some american doctors, who would probably meet more cases. Just judging by Googling I wouldn't say there are many cases. There is one forum with a couple of people.

Post by **ViewsAskew** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:09 pm

susieandirenes wrote:Don't know what he will want to put me on when I go back in 2 weeks, but after reading about the augmentation, I am positive the Mirapex I have been on for a year or so is causing it. Any suggestions?

The only way out of augmentation is to stop the offending drug. Some docs do find that the patient will respond to a different dopamine agonist, while many patients do not.

So, you and your doc have two choices: either switch to Requip (it takes three times as much to work, so if you take .5 of Mirapex, you'd take 1.5 of Requip) or change classes completely. This is trial and error. It seems from what I've read and my discussions with some docs, that for some reason, people who fail DAs often do well on opioids, though you also could try benzos or anti-seizure meds. Of course, there are no studies to determine why the opioids help, but it seems that way, so it's entirely anecdotal to a doctor. If your doctor is resistant to narcotics, I would print the Mayo Clinic Algorithm and take it with me. It clearly states that opioids should NOT be withheld from RLS patients when other classes of drugs do not work.

eliza · Post by **eliza** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:10 pm

Nancy,

Please keep in touch about ways you manage both tourette's and RLS at the same time. Your insights could be relevant and important to us all.

I'm so glad you have a good neurologist. One that is willing to go out of their way to research is a godsend!

Thanks for posting,
Eliza