Since the weather was a little more tolerable today, I thought that I'd take a 30 minute walk in the sunny afternoon. I don't know what the deal is with my RLS, but even walking makes my nightime symptoms incredibly horrible...I just spent an hour rolling around on the living room floor, beating my fists into the carpet, while waiting for the 1-1/2 norco tabs, 1200mg neurontin, and .75 mg clonazepam to kick in. I think I'm scaring my wife, who really doesn't understand how severe my symptoms have become in the 11 months since my spine surgery last year.
The last time I took a walk, about 6 weeks ago, the same thing happened...really bad RLS. Anybody else have this reaction to mild physical exercise?
Also, tomorrow, I'm having an emg done on my legs (and one arm?) to see how bad the post-surgical nerve damage is...I don't know what the relationship is between RLS and the numbness I have in my right foot since the surgery...I only know that they both get bad at the same time. I don't know at this point whether this is primary RLS (which I've had for most of my adult life), and made worse by the surgery, or whether the RLs is causing the pain in my foot. I don't understand the painful RLS that some of you experience, and whether that's what I've got.
I'm sorry for rambling on like this, but with these meds messing with my brain right now, I can't think very clearly. Sorry, but I'm really being dragged down with this. I don't even know what I'm asking from you all, except maybe some similar experiences to let me know that I'm not alone with all this. Also, I worry about the combination of meds (1-1/2 of the 10/325 Vicodin?, with the gabapentin and clonazepam...while the combination works, my experience and knowledge of the hydrocodone/tylenol is limited, and I hope that some of you can share with me your experience with these meds. Thank you all for any input, and I hope that you are all having a better time this morning than I am. ---Andy
Exercise and RLS
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ViewsAskew
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Andy, I was happy to see your screen name, but am dismayed by what you are going through. I am sorry to hear of all this.
I do not have that reaction to walking. I would say, however, that I used to have the same reaction to moderate or heavy exercise. The first day? Awful. Each day for the new two weeks? Awful. But, after about two weeks, it would stop an then the RLS would actually be better. I'd have to gut out those two weeks.
Now the RLS is much less bothered by other influences, so I don't have this happen.
I did just post about small fiber neuropathy...it seems it has several things in common with RLS and a doctor can miss it and diagnose anything from arthritis to RLS. Numbness is a symptom of small fiber neuropathy, as is burning pain. It also often starts in the feelt, but can be anywhere.
Please remember that with the exception of two pharmacists, the rest of us are not medical experts. That doesn't mean we don't know something, but I think it does mean we can't always see the larger picture and that we may see it only from a limited perspective.
I don't know much about combining meds, other than that doctors do it. I would be concerned simply because the Norco is a combo and has paracetamol. This isn't considered, from what I've read, to be good for long term use. Your body, for RLS that is, doesn't need that painkiller.
Now, that said, it may help other pain you have. Again, a doctor or pharmacist would need to weigh in about why this versus that. I'd want to press for answers, though, given that a purer form of opioid might be better for you given you have to take this for probably a long time coming.
I hope the doctor's visit tomorrow is fruitful.
I do not have that reaction to walking. I would say, however, that I used to have the same reaction to moderate or heavy exercise. The first day? Awful. Each day for the new two weeks? Awful. But, after about two weeks, it would stop an then the RLS would actually be better. I'd have to gut out those two weeks.
Now the RLS is much less bothered by other influences, so I don't have this happen.
I did just post about small fiber neuropathy...it seems it has several things in common with RLS and a doctor can miss it and diagnose anything from arthritis to RLS. Numbness is a symptom of small fiber neuropathy, as is burning pain. It also often starts in the feelt, but can be anywhere.
Please remember that with the exception of two pharmacists, the rest of us are not medical experts. That doesn't mean we don't know something, but I think it does mean we can't always see the larger picture and that we may see it only from a limited perspective.
I don't know much about combining meds, other than that doctors do it. I would be concerned simply because the Norco is a combo and has paracetamol. This isn't considered, from what I've read, to be good for long term use. Your body, for RLS that is, doesn't need that painkiller.
Now, that said, it may help other pain you have. Again, a doctor or pharmacist would need to weigh in about why this versus that. I'd want to press for answers, though, given that a purer form of opioid might be better for you given you have to take this for probably a long time coming.
I hope the doctor's visit tomorrow is fruitful.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Ann,
Sorry you're up and about at this hour of the morning (assuming that some discomfort is responsible)...this forum is one of the few places that I can find people awake, and able to identify with and help me with questions related to what we all share.
I've replied to your post on neuropathy as it's amazingly appropriate to my current symptoms. The EMG later today might help to identify how this neuropathy is contributing to my symptoms, and to identify how much of this is pure RLS, post-surgical nerve damage, or progressive neuropathy.
I was taking Norco 7.5/325 tablets, but recently asked my PCP to prescribe a 10/325 combination, to help reduce the amount of acetaminophen I ingest each evening.
Ann, thanks again for your help, and for your presence here. I hope that the rest of your day goes well. ---Andy
Sorry you're up and about at this hour of the morning (assuming that some discomfort is responsible)...this forum is one of the few places that I can find people awake, and able to identify with and help me with questions related to what we all share.
I've replied to your post on neuropathy as it's amazingly appropriate to my current symptoms. The EMG later today might help to identify how this neuropathy is contributing to my symptoms, and to identify how much of this is pure RLS, post-surgical nerve damage, or progressive neuropathy.
I was taking Norco 7.5/325 tablets, but recently asked my PCP to prescribe a 10/325 combination, to help reduce the amount of acetaminophen I ingest each evening.
Ann, thanks again for your help, and for your presence here. I hope that the rest of your day goes well. ---Andy
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ViewsAskew
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I'll be looking forward to your update.
Me, I'm just a night owl. I never have liked to go to bed early, even if I don't have RLS. Part of it is that I'm always waiting for RLS to happen and I'd rather be awake already than awakened, lol.
So, no discomfort other than the tapping at the back of my brain telling me to GO TO BED.
Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.
Me, I'm just a night owl. I never have liked to go to bed early, even if I don't have RLS. Part of it is that I'm always waiting for RLS to happen and I'd rather be awake already than awakened, lol.
So, no discomfort other than the tapping at the back of my brain telling me to GO TO BED.
Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
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SquirmingSusan
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Hi Kwazy Andy, so sorry you're suffering so much with this right now! I hope by the time I post this, that you're happily asleep.
It seems pretty common to combine opioids with gabapentin. As for acetaminophen, 4000 mg/day is the limit for safe usage. According to Medscape,
So unless you drink a lot of alcohol (not a good idea with those meds, anyway!) or smoke, then stay below 4000 mg a day, and you'll be OK. There does seem to be a synergistic effect between hydrocodone and acetaminophen that produces greater pain relief than the sum of both parts.
The only thing about adding clonazepam to the mix, is that opioids already have respiratory depressant effects, and adding a benzo is going to increase those effects. But I would defer to your doctor on that issue.
That's a bummer that walking bothers the RLS so much. Gosh, you try to get out and do something healthy, and whammo! Not fair.
Well, like I said, I hope by the time you read this you've had a good night's rest.
It seems pretty common to combine opioids with gabapentin. As for acetaminophen, 4000 mg/day is the limit for safe usage. According to Medscape,
For adults, the maximum daily dose is 4 g. Acetaminophen comes in 325-mg tablets; however, the 500-mg tablets are more common. Simply taking 2 Extra Strength Tylenol tablets more than 4 times a day will produce an overdose. It only takes a few days of exceeding the maximum dose to cause liver damage. If the patient adds alcohol to his or her acetaminophen regimen, the risk of damage increases further.[1] Smoking also increases the risk of liver damage.
So unless you drink a lot of alcohol (not a good idea with those meds, anyway!) or smoke, then stay below 4000 mg a day, and you'll be OK. There does seem to be a synergistic effect between hydrocodone and acetaminophen that produces greater pain relief than the sum of both parts.
The only thing about adding clonazepam to the mix, is that opioids already have respiratory depressant effects, and adding a benzo is going to increase those effects. But I would defer to your doctor on that issue.
That's a bummer that walking bothers the RLS so much. Gosh, you try to get out and do something healthy, and whammo! Not fair.
Well, like I said, I hope by the time you read this you've had a good night's rest.
Susan
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Polar Bear
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Hi Andy, here's hoping you got some sleep last night. It is so awful to be having such a bad time as you are going through - good luck with your tests today.
Betty
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/a ... 0/fulltext
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation
Dear Kwazy,
I got the painful 24/7 RLS and they act up after an ordinary trip to the grocery store! And I take a whole barrel of medications, including the ones you take, and I'm still alive. Sometimes I have to take extra. As long as you sort of stay within a couple pills of your regular daily range, you'll be fine.
I imagine the reason your legs are worse is exactly what you suspect, that your spinal surgery has temporarily sensitized your nerves. My legs are always worse when I do a lot of extra activity, and I have a bad back, so for a while anyway, I suppose yours will overreact to ordinary walks. As your back heals, so too will your RLS return to what is was before the op, I think.
We'll be interested to hear what the doc exam shows. Maybe they'll give you some stronger drugs for a while or even a numbing shot to your back or something.
GG
I got the painful 24/7 RLS and they act up after an ordinary trip to the grocery store! And I take a whole barrel of medications, including the ones you take, and I'm still alive. Sometimes I have to take extra. As long as you sort of stay within a couple pills of your regular daily range, you'll be fine.
I imagine the reason your legs are worse is exactly what you suspect, that your spinal surgery has temporarily sensitized your nerves. My legs are always worse when I do a lot of extra activity, and I have a bad back, so for a while anyway, I suppose yours will overreact to ordinary walks. As your back heals, so too will your RLS return to what is was before the op, I think.
We'll be interested to hear what the doc exam shows. Maybe they'll give you some stronger drugs for a while or even a numbing shot to your back or something.
GG
"It's not how old you are; it's how awful you feel."
Hi everyone,
Hope you all had a restful night. I finally got to sleep at about 3 or 4 this morning...I'm becoming quite a fan of late night tv...a few weeks ago I almost bought a total gym from Chuck and Christie.
After a particularly bad bout with the RLS/pain/whatever, and even after the meds eliminate most of the symptoms, my brain still waits for the discomfort to return, and this keeps me from sleeping...kind of anticipatory anxiety I guess.
Susan, I don't drink, smoke, or take more than about 500 mg of acetaminophen each night (compounded with the hydrocodone), so I guess I shouldn't worry about that. I've been taking the clonazepam for about 5 years now (about 1mg/day), so unless I REALLY have to taper off of it, and possibly go through the associated withdrawal, I'll probably continue that med. By the way, it's good to hear from you again, and thanks for your reply.
PB, thanks also for your reply, and I hope that you're doing well.
GG, thanks for your reply, and I'm sorry that your RLS has become so much a part of your life. As for the the nerve-sensitivity since my surgery, I wonder just how long it takes to heal...this stuff doesn't seem to be getting any better with time. I've accommodated to the partial lack of sensation in my right foot (still have to look down to see whether my shoe is on at times), and I ignore the discomfort during the days. But at night, everything goes South, and if I don't catch the symptoms early enough, then I'm in for a real treat.
I know many of you have this stuff much worse than I do, and I'm grateful for the moments that I don't have discomfort...I know that some of you don't have that luxury.
Well, I have to get ready for the EMG now, so I hope that you all have a great day!
---Andy
Hope you all had a restful night. I finally got to sleep at about 3 or 4 this morning...I'm becoming quite a fan of late night tv...a few weeks ago I almost bought a total gym from Chuck and Christie.
After a particularly bad bout with the RLS/pain/whatever, and even after the meds eliminate most of the symptoms, my brain still waits for the discomfort to return, and this keeps me from sleeping...kind of anticipatory anxiety I guess.
Susan, I don't drink, smoke, or take more than about 500 mg of acetaminophen each night (compounded with the hydrocodone), so I guess I shouldn't worry about that. I've been taking the clonazepam for about 5 years now (about 1mg/day), so unless I REALLY have to taper off of it, and possibly go through the associated withdrawal, I'll probably continue that med. By the way, it's good to hear from you again, and thanks for your reply.
PB, thanks also for your reply, and I hope that you're doing well.
GG, thanks for your reply, and I'm sorry that your RLS has become so much a part of your life. As for the the nerve-sensitivity since my surgery, I wonder just how long it takes to heal...this stuff doesn't seem to be getting any better with time. I've accommodated to the partial lack of sensation in my right foot (still have to look down to see whether my shoe is on at times), and I ignore the discomfort during the days. But at night, everything goes South, and if I don't catch the symptoms early enough, then I'm in for a real treat.
I know many of you have this stuff much worse than I do, and I'm grateful for the moments that I don't have discomfort...I know that some of you don't have that luxury.
Well, I have to get ready for the EMG now, so I hope that you all have a great day!
---Andy