RLS/WED onset times and daylight, vs circadian rhythms

[rthom]

I was trying to figure out if the onset (or increase) and conversely the easing up of the rls nightly follows patterns for-mostly surrounding the environmental influences (like darkness) or something more personal like your circadian rhythm. Was thinking about it for sleep reasons, like if it's always going to start to ramp-up about 12 hours after it starts to get dark--then why not make aschedule that means the alarm goes off to get up just before then. Ugh waking to the rls worsening. But it may be an interesting question.
if anyone is comfortable i would like to hear how many hours after dark the symptoms really start to ramp-up for others. (assuming it applies and only on the "norm" for them) I know it's hard to track that for some.

[Chipmunk]

My sleep doc said it's usually 6 pm to 6 am...for me it's usually 7 pm to 7 am. I don't know which clock it goes by, although I do think people have worked around the WED by working the night shift, and sleeping during the day. My grandpa never slept at night, always in the day.

[ViewsAskew]

It's worst between midnight and 4 AM according to one study. There is a dopamine regulation issue that ties to this.

In the mid-morning, your body has a LOT of dopamine wandering around. So, the body says, "Wow, look at all this dopamine, shut it off!" and stops issuing any. In the evening, when everyone else is getting their shot of chemicals related to sleeping, our thermostat is still in the off position. About 4-6 AM, our bodies all the sudden realize that there is NO dopamine to be found and it starts to flood us with it. The RLS/WED stops and we sleep.

Even those of us with it all day long usually find that the daytime version is a pale comparison to the nighttime evil.

[rthom]

Thanks explains why if i can get sleep it's usually between7-8 am. Am on night 3 of no sleep (so far) and the 4 previous was no more than 30-45min. Must frustrated and at a loss. might just not try till 6-7am,

[Polar Bear]

My 24/7 symptoms are generally at their worst from 6pm - 11pm.
My best time for sleeping would be 4am - 9am just as long as I have taken
my 'middle of the night' medication.

[rlsidaho]

I would mirror what Polar Bear is stating.

[badnights]

I live north of 60. In the winter, it's dark until 10 AM and dark again at 3 PM. In the summer - sometimes I work as far north as 65, and it never gets dark.

For me at least, the WED has nothing to do with external dark, at least not overtly, because it doesn't change seasonally, and is worse in the evening whether the evening has daylight or darkness. I assume it's tied to the internal circadian rhythms - which, as I understand, ARE tied to sunlight. So maybe the effect of changing sunlight is very delayed, and would only affect our circadian clock over a great length of time, longer than a year? Some blind people have a terrible time sleeping because - I should look this up before I say it, but I'll not, and hope I paraphrase semi-accurately - because they're so blind that the light-detecting cells that are still active in some blind people are not active in them, and it screws up their circadian clock such that they never get the stimulus to sleep. (Sounds like me on opioids....)

[rthom]

Now that makes sense. Thanks all