Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS/WED, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
ethan
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby ethan » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:23 pm

Hi,

I just found this forum- wow it's really a great source of info- I had no idea that kratom could help with this issue.

I am wondering where folks source kratom? Ideally I would like to get organic kratom.

Can someone point me to a thread or resource that talks about how to start dosing it?

Thanks!
Ethan

stjohnh
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby stjohnh » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:56 pm

The main Kratom thread discusses this, but is scattered throughout the posts. Me and others have used these and seem reliable:
http://www.phytoextractum.com/
http://www.moodandmind.com/
http://botanicalwellness.com/

The most commonly reported effective strain is Red Vein Borneo. I think these vendors sell only organic kratom.

doses used are commonly 1-2g repeated every 2-4 hours as needed. 1-2g is about 1/4-1/2 tsp. I weigh mine on a $10 jewelers scale from amazon. Many just use a measuring spoon.
Blessings,
Holland

jul2873
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby jul2873 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:41 pm

I have used only kratom for the last 3 years to control my severe RLS. I get mine from Velvet Soul. By organic do you mean grown without pesticides? I have no idea if that's the case. At any rate, because the FDA does not allow kratom to be sold as a food or supplement, many sellers are wary of selling it. To find the listings on Velvet Soul you need to put the kind of kratom in the search box, such as "Red leaf Borneo." At any rate, I've used two or three sellers and I like their product the best. I like the powdered leaf.

I do have a gram scale and have weighed kratom a number of times and find that 1/2 tsp. is a little over a gram. Since kratom is not water soluable, but does dissolve in acid, I always put it in orange juice and the acid in the juice dissolves it. Also, then, it never upsets my stomach and works faster. So I measure 1/2 tsp. into a little plastic cup, and let it sit in the refrigerator for at least twenty minutes. Usually I make up a tray of these doses and take them when I need them. Typically I take one dose in the early afternoon, one dose in the early evening, one or two doses before bed, and then two doses the first time I wake up (when the RLS is most severe) and then one dose the second time. If I wake up a third time, a half dose will often be enough.

I hope this works for you. When you first start using it you might feel a little euphoria, but that soon fades. I would advise against upping your dose to keep the euphoria. You want to keep it working for the RLS, and a low dose, at least for me, is still working well. Also, if you take too much you might get nauseous.

ethan
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby ethan » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:58 pm

Awesome thanks for the info! One other question- is it ok to use kratom with mirapex, horizant and/or an oral opiate?

stjohnh
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby stjohnh » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:49 pm

ethan wrote:Awesome thanks for the info! One other question- is it ok to use kratom with mirapex, horizant and/or an oral opiate?


There are no scientific studies about this, however kratom users on this forum don't report problems with the meds you cited. I use kratom with Neupro (similar to Mirapex) and gabapentin (similar to Horizont), and MM.
Blessings,
Holland

Rustsmith
Moderator
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Location: Pueblo, Colorado

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby Rustsmith » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:17 pm

One other question- is it ok to use kratom with mirapex, horizant and/or an oral opiate?


Ethan, I have used kratom fairly successfully with a Neupro/gabapentin combined treatment and a pramipexole/gabapentin treatment. I did not experience any problems with occasionally using kratom.

As for using it with opiates, that is one where some individual experimentation that takes a conservative approach to the kratom dose might be warranted. Since the kratom acts on some of the same nervous system sites as the opiates, the combination of the two could be additive. That is not to say that the combination is likely to cause an overdose because such low doses of opiates are used to treat RLS. However, you might find that the kratom would increase some of the opiate symptoms, such as fogginess first thing in the morning. If that is potentially a problem, then it would be a good idea to go very slowly with that combination.
Steve

Augmentation Evaluation http://bb.rls.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9005

Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.

ethan
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby ethan » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:50 pm

Thanks so much for all of the great information. I ordered some. Do I have to have it with juice? Can I just make capsules out of it and take with water?

jul2873
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby jul2873 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:04 pm

The reason I use orange juice is to dissolve it before drinking; otherwise it upsets my stomach. However, I also do put some in capsules for travel. I rarely drink alcohol anymore so I don't know how it would react with wine.

stjohnh
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby stjohnh » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:25 pm

ethan wrote:Thanks so much for all of the great information. I ordered some. Do I have to have it with juice? Can I just make capsules out of it and take with water?

It works faster if premixed with juice. I use grapefruit juice as the bitterness disguises the bitterness of the Kratom somewhat. I also find that keeping the juice ice cold helps it go down easier. Pre mix with juice seems to take 20 to 30 minutes to start working. Capsules take about an hour. This is important if you wake up at night and want to go back to sleep and need some Kratom to help.
Blessings,
Holland

ethan
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby ethan » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:38 pm

I try to avoid the sugar in juice. I am wondering if maybe I can mix it with some water and apple cider vinegar to get some acidity- I will try that.

Again- I appreciate the info!

jul2873
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby jul2873 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:57 am

I can see that apple cider vinegar might work, but don't forget that orange is very rich in nutrients. I'm just careful to brush my teeth after every dose because of the sugar content.

tommy108
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:23 pm

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby tommy108 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:43 pm

How is it going, with the Kratom, Ethan? I am trying a handful of new things this month -- but want to keep tabs on your progress, and Kratom in general for possible future use.

click4it
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby click4it » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:38 am

I keep reading that Kratom requires several doses throughout the night? Hope that isnt the case. I am looking into this as an alternative to opiates...

stjohnh
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Palo Alto, California

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby stjohnh » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:33 pm

For most people kratom lasts only a few hours. I take 700mg at 7:30pm (along with mirapex, Gabapentin, and THC), go to sleep about 9-9:30, then 350mg at 11:30pm.

When I used kratom alone I took about 2 grams, repeated about every 3-4 hours.

It works somewhat like opiates and can substitute for opiates in people that are on mild opiates, but isn't strong enough to replace opiates for those needing strong opiates (methadone, morphine, oxycodone, etc).
Blessings,
Holland

srgraves01
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:34 am

Re: Sourcing kratom- organic if possible / how to dose

Postby srgraves01 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:17 pm

Kratom did not work for me. It made me agitated. I have gone through augmentation and that may be part of the problem. Morphine does the same thing to me.

Steve


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