Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]
Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
yawny wrote:Also, what dosage of Potassium Citrate did you take during your trial?
I took approx. 3,000 mg/day. My understanding is the recommended daily intake is 4,700 mg/day. I bought 500 grams of Potassium Citrate Powder. The reviews on Amazon indicated 1 tsp equated to approx. 2,200 mg of Potassium. I was aware of the risks of taking too much Potassium, so to be sure I bought a digital scale, and my measurements came out the the same. I took 1/2 tsp 3x/day.
I wonder if there is any kind of substantive difference between the OTC potassium citrate powder you used and the 10mEq pills I've received through prescription?
Rob wrote:I wonder if there is any kind of substantive difference between the OTC potassium citrate powder you used and the 10mEq pills I've received through prescription?
Seems the only difference is the extended release part, so maybe it’s being broken down and absorbed in different areas. That’s as medical as I get.
Rob wrote:I wonder if there is any kind of substantive difference between the OTC potassium citrate powder you used and the 10mEq pills I've received through prescription?
Seems the only difference is the extended release part, so maybe it’s being broken down and absorbed in different areas. That’s as medical as I get.
I talked to my pharmacist today, and he told me that the pills manufactured for pharmaceutical sales are regulated by the FDA differently than OTC pills or powder. He said that this regulation guarantees that the pharmaceutical pill will have the advertised level of product, whereas an OTC has no such guarantee. I've tried to research this, but I find it's difficult to get to the bottom of it. Does anyone have some insight on this?
Also, I've found varying answers to how many milligrams are in 10mEq of potassium citrate. I've seen 1050mg, 750mg, and the pharmacist today did a calculation and said it was about 350mg. Does anybody know how to do the math on this one?
Rob, all of those numbers are correct, they are just values that reflect different things.
The 1050mg value is the number of mg of Potassium Citrate in 10mEq. The 350mg value is the number of mg of Potassium ion. The 750mg value is the number of mg of Citrate ion.
They don't quite add up, because as your pharmacist said, all of the values are approximate and have been rounded off.
As for the issue of product strength, pharmaceutical grade materials not only undergo more strenuous testing for strength, they also have to meet much higher purity standards than OTC. So, the OTC product might have higher levels of other compounds depending upon how it was produced, like maybe citric acid, potassium chloride, sodium citrate, etc. Purity doesn't always mean something harmful, just things that are not true Potassium Citrate molecules.
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Rustsmith wrote:Rob, all of those numbers are correct, they are just values that reflect different things.
The 1050mg value is the number of mg of Potassium Citrate in 10mEq. The 350mg value is the number of mg of Potassium ion. The 750mg value is the number of mg of Citrate ion.
They don't quite add up, because as your pharmacist said, all of the values are approximate and have been rounded off.
As for the issue of product strength, pharmaceutical grade materials not only undergo more strenuous testing for strength, they also have to meet much higher purity standards than OTC. So, the OTC product might have higher levels of other compounds depending upon how it was produced, like maybe citric acid, potassium chloride, sodium citrate, etc. Purity doesn't always mean something harmful, just things that are not true Potassium Citrate molecules.
Thank you for this explanation, Steve. I appreciate it. Can you possibly point me to a credible source that explains how the mEq numbers are calculated and relate to standard mgs?
Any general chemistry book explains how to calculate equivalent weights for chemicals. I simply performed the calculations using the molecular weights for potassium and citrate ions and the -3 valence of the citrate ion. The valence is necessary to convert molecular weights to equivalents.
I should explain that I am an adjunct professor of Chemical Engineering, so calculations like this are pretty trivial for me.
If you want to try to do it yourself, the atomic weight (molecular weight for a pure element) is 39.0983. The molecular weight for a citrate ion is 192.124. So the molecular weight for potassium citrate is 306.395 (39+192).
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Rustsmith wrote:Any general chemistry book explains how to calculate equivalent weights for chemicals. I simply performed the calculations using the molecular weights for potassium and citrate ions and the -3 valence of the citrate ion. The valence is necessary to convert molecular weights to equivalents.
I should explain that I am an adjunct professor of Chemical Engineering, so calculations like this are pretty trivial for me.
If you want to try to do it yourself, the atomic weight (molecular weight for a pure element) is 39.0983. The molecular weight for a citrate ion is 192.124. So the molecular weight for potassium citrate is 306.395 (39+192).
Ah, thank you for this, Steve. My wife is a ChemE as well. I probably should have asked her in the first place!
Rob, to set the record straight, my training is as a Chemical Metallurgical Engineer. In my entire career, I have only met one other Chemical Metallurgist. So, I guide ChemE grad students in their research, partly because there are so few MetE schools and partly because most of the work at the school where I teach is based upon my prior research work (before retirement).
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
My update...I got a prescription from my doctor for 10mEq potassium citrate, filled it at my pharmacy, and took it for 45 days. While I was waiting for the prescription I started ramping up by taking 500-1000mg of OTC potassium citrate for 3 weeks. It took some time to get the prescription because my doctor was confused by the type of potassium and gave me the wrong one. Unfortunately, the potassium citrate didn’t work for me. I saw no improvements in my symptoms. And I didn’t have any negatives either, except disappointment. I researched quite a bit and think it’s a safe option to try as long as your doctor agrees. We all know that RLS is varied and people respond to different things so I hope others will try potassium citrate and have the outcome that Rob has had.
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
yawny wrote:My update...I got a prescription from my doctor for 10mEq potassium citrate, filled it at my pharmacy, and took it for 45 days. While I was waiting for the prescription I started ramping up by taking 500-1000mg of OTC potassium citrate for 3 weeks. It took some time to get the prescription because my doctor was confused by the type of potassium and gave me the wrong one. Unfortunately, the potassium citrate didn’t work for me. I saw no improvements in my symptoms. And I didn’t have any negatives either, except disappointment. I researched quite a bit and think it’s a safe option to try as long as your doctor agrees. We all know that RLS is varied and people respond to different things so I hope others will try potassium citrate and have the outcome that Rob has had.
I'm so sorry it didn't work for you, Yawny. I really hope that you're able to find some treatment that relieves you of this terrible syndrome. Please keep us updated as you search for answers.
Potassium Citrate continues to work for me. I'm on 8 months of symptom-free sleep now, and I feel lucky.
Hello Rob, and All. I have just read the paper on potassium citrate, quite by chance. I went sleuthing for potassium citrate and find that it forms a goodly part of two 'alkalizing' powders that I am familiar with. One is by A Vogel, the great Swiss naturopath, and the other is a cheaper local South African brand. At the maximum advised dose, it delivers 1,740mg potassium citrate and 1,630mg magnesium citrate, plus a few calcium bits and bobs. Following a mild brainstorm, I discovered the local version at the back of my highest kitchen cupboard, the one that requires a ladder. A rather dusty object, but I doubt these things go 'off'. So Rob, nothing to lose, I shall certainly take the maximum dose until it is all gone, then ponder purchasing the Swiss version. Then I shall report back. By the way, I live in the land of bananas and avocados, and both are staples of my diet. But I am just too small at 110 pounds to eat enough to make much difference. But a banana in the middle of one of those nights certainly seems to help a bit. That's about 350grams? And we need about 3,500grams per day. Of potassium, not potassium citrate. Do we get enough potassium? That is ten bananas or fourteen oranges. Or the maximum dose of Mr Vogel's powder plus three bananas plus three oranges, plus a bit more because of the citrate thingummy. So, again, do we get enough? I imagine people in Bangla Desh, where the paper originated, might get more than most people in the West. So could we just be plain deficient? You have to chug-a-lug a helluva lot of steak and coke and food-like substances to get to 3,500g of potassium. I know about the blood tests and the averaging that they use to get to 'normal', but that is a 'normal' based on a buckets-full of sick people, add them all together and divide by the number you first thought of. Can a kind person please tell me how much potassium there is in potassium citrate, so I can line up my bananas and avocados properly with my alkalising powder. Ciao Bronwen
Bronwen, potassium citrate tends to pick up water from the air. So, unless you get a specially dehydrated form, potassium citrate is about 12% potassium by weight. This means that if you have 100 grams of potassium citrate, it contains about 12 grams of potassium. The rest is either the citrate or the adsorbed water.
Potassium citrate can also exist in a form that is known as Potassium Citrate Monobasic. The monobasic form does not pick up water as aggressively and so 100 grams of it would contain about 17 grams of potassium.
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Isn't the real question the risk of trying 10mEq Potassium Citrate. What are the side effects and interaction with other drugs we are taking. What I saw on the web did not look so benign. And what is the cost of a prescription? I would try anything if those two risks were low.
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yawny wrote:Also, what dosage of Potassium Citrate did you take during your trial?
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