admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking meds

Here you can share your experiences with substances that are ingested, inhaled, or otherwise consumed for the purpose of relieving RLS, other than prescription medications. For example, herbal remedies, nutritional supplements, diet, kratom, and marijuana (for now) should be discussed here. Tell others of successes, failures, side effects, and any known research on these substances. [Posts on these subjects created prior to 2009 are in the Physical Treatments forum.]

Important: Posts and information in this section are based on personal experiences and recommendations; they should not be considered a substitute for the advice of a healthcare provider.
dwimble

admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking meds

Post by dwimble »

I've been on and off this board for about 4 years now. I realize that these discussion boards need to be monitored, but I don't agree with the screening that the "Natural Remedies" board has to endure.

There shouldn't be admins chiming in with their opinion if those admins are taking meds, whether it be for RLS, depression, sleep, whatever.

If I present something that has helped me, it doesn't help anyone to have someone taking meds systematically replying to my post saying "that's great that it worked for you, but remember that there are many paths to follow, and each of us is different ... "

The board also doesn't need other people on meds belittling methods or theories, however questionable. We all have brains. We're all adults.

It should be up to the other people looking for a natural path to recovery to determine what is useable and what is hooey.

I have asked RLS.org to consider this, and they gracefully responded and said they would.

Hopefully it happens soon. This could be a great board, a place to exchange ideas.

There needs to be a mutual respect. Some of us are pro-med, and some of us are anti-med. Both parties have their heels dug in deep. Regardless of our position, we should both have safe communities where we can learn, throw out some ideas ... and try and find a solution that works for "us."

rthom
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by rthom »

I was of the impression that the input here was neither pro meds or against, rather one of acceptance and tolerance of the information put on by the members, no matter what it was.
In your case for instance I was of the opinion that some of what you said I agreed with and some not--I was never of the opinion that anyone (esp the moderators) had any problem with that. It has become clear that you seem to though. I wonder why it has to be pro or against and not just what-ever is working and a mutual sharing of information. I thought that is what a discussion board is, not right or wrong, but information discussion what-ever it is.
In any case I hope things settle down here soon, as the negative tone is very hard to see as helpful in any way.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

I'm just pointing out something that needs to be fixed.

The pro-med and anti-med are two different worlds of thought. You can't disguise that fact.

All I'm saying is we both need our private space to do our thing in.

If you don't mind me asking, do you take medication?

What I'm getting at is if you do take meds, then you shouldn't be voicing your opinion here. If you are not taking any meds, you should be absolutely free to say anything you want on this board.

I don't go to the med board and give my opinion because I know that people on that board are in a different situation than I am.

They have a mutual respect for each other, because they can empathize with what each other is experiencing.

There should be the same safe and respectful environment for this board.

The "Natural Remedies" area of the discussion board doesn't need heady comments from people on meds, it needs input from people that are going at it free of meds.

There is no disrespect for anyone whatsoever with this post.

rthom
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by rthom »

I thought that you were talking about the discussion board, are you talking about the topic?

I believe that this is likely the case, and to that idea I had no problem with people keeping med topic off of it, but policing the board would detract from the time moderators (on meds or not) would have to help folks, also that causes all kinds of responsibility (legal) problems for them.

It's too bad that folks can't just take what they need and assume folks will do what is right for their own lives.

Also, It is my opinion that it would be hard to convince med taking folks to go med free if they no longer read posts here--in the non-pharm section (topic).
If you truly want others to try it your way (and if I remember properly-that was part of your firs post), It seems a bit like you would be shooting yourself in the foot.

jul2873
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by jul2873 »

I'm sorry, Dwimble, but you are setting up a false dichotomy here. I'm not anti-meds, just profoundly grateful that I am not yet at the stage where I might have to take them. And I am grateful for the input of the admins--or anyone else--whether they are currently taking meds, or have taken them in the past, or are considering them for the future.

Actually, when I joined this board I joined asking for input on whether or not I should start meds, as my doctor wanted me to do. It was an admin on this board (who was taking meds herself) who convinced me to stay off of them as long as I could. I was grateful for that advice, and have been following it.

And I'm trying to understand your motivation in all this. I can understand that you think RLS is always caused by inflammation. But why are you so hostile to any other viewpoint? Maybe I read this wrong, but your website seems to infer that inflammation is behind all kinds of diseases, like cancer, heart disease etc. And the reason that the medical community is ignoring this theory is because of "Big Pharma." Is that what you think?

At any rate, I second the admins call for civility, and for respecting viewpoints other than your own.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

I'm not inferring that the top diseases are inflammatory ... that's now common knowledge. That's not even debatable anymore.

All people have a right to view all boards, but I think that when it comes to giving an opinion it should be like-minded people having the discussion.

If you' ar a person not taking meds and are wondering about the pros and cons, you can easily hop onto the pharmaceutical area of this discussion group and you will get opinions by the hundreds. Including that of any admin taking meds. It doesn't have to be done in this "natural remedies" environment.

Just my opinion, obviously. But there has to be SOMEONE that agrees with me?

If not, then I'll happily leave, but with a clear conscience that I at least clarified this matter for myself.

I think something is wrong with this setup. If no one else thinks that, then I guess I'm out to lunch.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

And just to clarify rthom

I'm not talking about banning med taking people from this area, or not allowing them to ask questions, or to clarify what may have worked for someone.

I'm talking strictly about the "opinion-giving", or "comment giving" ... like "I'm glad that works for you." That sort of thing.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

One more pet peeve in regard to comments I forgot to add is the insinuation that if something "natural" works for someone, then they didn't really have RLS, or they may have had it, but it wasn't that severe.

In my opinion, if you're lying in bed at night fantasizing about cutting your legs off ... that's severe.

Anyone that has had such thoughts on a regular basis is tied for the worst case of RLS ever.

Who is anyone to say that another person's condition is not / was not severe?

rthom
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by rthom »

It sounds like you are hearing the comments from the admins like "I'm glad..." as being insincere or flippant. I haven't seen that here (or anywhere on the board) and would encourage you to clarify that if it is the case. I believe they truly believe that if they say it--but I'm not them and only they know. If you feel you are being "handled" here I'm not sure what would help. The mods are volunteers and give selflessly and maybe we should ask how much we have the right to expect of them to do for free. I respect the idea of improving the board, but there has to be a clear set of boundaries that are both reasonable and executable to follow. It's hard to decide in cases like this what is opinion and what is fact.
I believe and use (even for my dogs) they holistic approach to life but for others it's just opinion, thus I would need to keep my views to myself--but how would that be written as a "rule" or policed, and how then could I help any others to try it first?

rthom
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by rthom »

dwimble wrote:One more pet peeve in regard to comments I forgot to add is the insinuation that if something "natural" works for someone, then they didn't really have RLS, or they may have had it, but it wasn't that severe.

In my opinion, if you're lying in bed at night fantasizing about cutting your legs off ... that's severe.

Anyone that has had such thoughts on a regular basis is tied for the worst case of RLS ever.

Who is anyone to say that another person's condition is not / was not severe?



I missed this--who or what are you referring?

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

People have often commented that because I am free of RLS, I didn't really have it in the first place.

I don't need that kind of comment (from anyone). That's all I'm saying. They have NO idea what I went through. It was a 20 year nightmare, I assure you.

And in regard to your other comment about a "rule" or "policy" - I'm just suggesting that RLS.org have a non-med person administer the "Natural Remedies" board. That's all.

Some other volunteer, but one that is actually using natural remedies.

rthom
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by rthom »

Have you considered moving your remedy forward by some means--in order to get the respect it requires to be accepted? Like applying for a grant or something and going through the process of proving your science. You must admit it you are asking folks to take you at your word that it works--and in this day and age of lying to get what you want, it's hard to know who to trust. So how about proving your theory and then using that proof to get others the help (I'm assuming that this is your intention--apologies if I got it wrong). It takes time, but you seem really frustrated with the lack of respect you are getting for it now.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

rthom

Again, this issue I'm bringing up about the moderators has nothing to do with me and my remedy.

As far as my remedy or "cure" goes, it's really building momentum. I have an interview later this afternoon, and there's an online medical style of website that is going to publish my article about RLS being a symptom of chronic inflammation.

Other websites, doctors, nutritionists and the like are starting to recommend my website.

I actually couldn't be happier right now. I'm getting feedback from people that swells my heart with joy. I can't put it any other way.

This is what fuels me. Not the lack of respect.

Here are some testimonials. This is only going to grow as my approach become more mainstream.

http://www.rlcure.com/tes.html

jul2873
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by jul2873 »

I am not a doctor, but I have to respond to this comment by dwimble: "I'm not inferring that the top diseases are inflammatory ... that's now common knowledge. That's not even debatable anymore."

My understanding is that something--usually some kind of pathogen, causes the inflammation. When the infection is cleared up, the inflammation often is as well. That's with acute inflammation. With chronic inflammation, the inflammation doesn't clear up, but lingers, causing other conditions. I know there is a great deal of research in this area now. I will be interested to see what kind of role, if any, inflammation has in RLS.

As I say, I'm not a doctor or a medical researcher, and I'm sure my understanding is much too simplistic. But to simply say that inflammation is the cause of top diseases I think is a long way from being common knowledge.

dwimble

Re: admins in the "Natural" section should not be taking med

Post by dwimble »

jul2873

All you need to do to is type in any common condition into Google followed by the word "inflammation." It should bring up a lot of interesting studies and articles about their relationship.

Here's a good overview article:

The New England Journal of Medicine published several studies in the year 2000 showing that the blood indicators of inflammation are strong predictive factors for determining who will suffer a heart attack (Lindahl et al. 2000; Packard et al. 2000; Rader 2000). The January 2001 issue of Life Extension Magazine described these studies and explained how individuals could protect themselves against these inflammatory markers (such as C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and fibrinogen).

A growing consensus among scientists is that common disorders such as atherosclerosis, colon cancer, and Alzheimer's disease are all caused in part by a chronic inflammatory syndrome.

Seemingly unrelated diseases have a common link. People who have multiple degenerative disorders often exhibit excess levels of pro-inflammatory markers in their blood. Here is a partial list of common medical conditions that are associated with chronic inflammation:

DISEASE MECHANISM
Allergy - Inflammatory cytokines induce autoimmune reactions
Alzheimer's - Chronic inflammation destroys brain cells
Anemia - Inflammatory cytokines attack erythropoietin production
Aortic valve stenosis - Chronic inflammation damages heart valves
Arthritis - Inflammatory cytokines destroy joint cartilage and synovial fluid
Cancer - Chronic inflammation causes many cancers
Congestive heart failure - Chronic inflammation contributes to heart muscle wasting
Fibromyalgia - Inflammatory cytokines are elevated
Fibrosis - Inflammatory cytokines attack traumatized tissue
Heart attack - Chronic inflammation contributes to coronary atherosclerosis
Kidney failure - Inflammatory cytokines restrict circulation and damage nephrons
Lupus - Inflammatory cytokines induce an autoimmune attack
Pancreatitis - Inflammatory cytokines induce pancreatic cell injury
Psoriasis - Inflammatory cytokines induce dermatitis
Stroke - Chronic inflammation promoted thromboembolic events
Surgical complications - Inflammatory cytokines prevent healing

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